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  1. #1
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 03:49 AM
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    Default Muslim group calls for ban on the burka

    very interesting article in today's national post.

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/can...tml?id=2079527


    A Canadian Muslim group is calling on Ottawa to ban the wearing of the burka in public, saying the argument that the right to wear it is protected by the Charter's guarantee of freedom of religion is false.

    "The burka has absolutely no place in Canada," said Farzana Hassan, of the Muslim Canadian Congress. "In Canada we recognize the equality of men and women. We want to recognize gender equality as an absolute. The burka marginalizes women."

    She said many women who cover their face in public are being forced to by their husbands and family. As a result, she argued, these women are denied opportunities and cannot live freely as other women.

    "The Koran exhorts Muslims toward modesty, which can be expressed in a number of different ways and it doesn't have to be that you have to cover your face or you have to wear a virtual tent wherever you go.

    "This is not a requirement of Islam or the Koran. We are saying this practice has become a political issue promoted by extremists and to counter this trend we are asking for a ban on the burka."

    The proposal calls for the banning of "masks, niqabs and burkas." A niqab covers the face but allows the eyes to be seen; a burka covers the entire body and the eyes are obscured by a mesh covering.

    "For me that is a huge embarrassment," said Ms. Hassan. "It brings the kind of criticism Muslims [unfairly] face."

    Ms. Hassan said her group is bringing this up now because of an edict released this week in Egypt, by a top Muslim authority, calling for a ban on the burka.

    Ms. Hassan said she is not asking for the banning of the hijab, which just covers the hair, but she would also like to see that custom vanish.

    Professor Amir Hussain, who teaches theology at Loyola Marymount College in Los Angeles, but grew up in Toronto, said the fact that the burka is not in the Koran does not mean that it is not part of authentic religious practice and that many religions absorb cultural practices that eventually become sacred.

    He said he does not believe there are enough women wearing the burka in Canada to call it a serious issue. But for those women who are being forced to wear it by family members, the best way to deal with it is to reach out to those women on an individual level.

    He said any legal ban will infringe on fundamental democratic rights.

    "In Turkey, a secular society, it is illegal to wear it. In Iran you'll be punished if you don't wear it. Either way imposing a belief on women."

    In the past few years, the debate over what kind of religious dress should be allowed has been loud and intense.

    In June, French President Nicolas Sarkozy went so far as to call a parliamentary commission to look at whether to ban the wearing of burkas and niqabs in public. In France, religious headgear of any faith has already been banned in public schools.

    Also in June, the Michigan Supreme Court amended its rules of evidence to give trial judges discretion over whether a woman can be fully veiled when testifying or when bringing accusations. The new rule did not mention Muslims, but it will clearly affect Muslims.

    Last year an Ontario judge said religious beliefs did not give a woman the right to wear a veil while testifying against her alleged rapist. The decision is now before the Ontario Court of Appeal.

    In 2007, a Quebec election official created controversy when he said veiled Muslim women would have to take off their veil if they wanted to vote.

    Wahida Valiante, chairwoman of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said the right to wear a burka is absolutely covered by the Charter and no one can dictate what constitutes proper religious practice.

    But she said by constantly bringing up a "miniscule" issue, that, too, skews society's impression of Islam.

    "If anyone ever finds this to be a huge problem I'd be the first one to participate in that discourse. There's freedom of choice. Women can take their bra off and we don't have any laws against that," she said.

    "So in that context a woman can choose to cover their face in this country."

  2. #2
    Outta Space Cowboy Scotty's Avatar
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    Stop trying to divert traffic from the Beck thread, Mike.

  3. #3
    Good Enough brownnation's Avatar
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    02.18.16 @ 03:10 PM
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    This is a weird article. So, let me get this straight. You want to promote the freedom of women by telling them what they can and can't wear? That's messed up. Even the progressive Muslims are full of shit!

  4. #4
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownnation View Post
    This is a weird article. So, let me get this straight. You want to promote the freedom of women by telling them what they can and can't wear? That's messed up. Even the progressive Muslims are full of shit!
    Maybe, but think about it. Whilst a lot of muslim women choose to cover their hair and forehead, it is pretty obvious that very few, if any, would choose to wear a full burkha. Those that do are generally forced to by family and freedom from that seems to be the aim of the proposed legislation.

    Besides, most western countries also have laws about what can and can't be worn. Wasn't it recently made illegal in Louisiana to wear your trousers too low? And are women allowed to sunbathe topless on US beaches? If I tried wearing a full SS uniform here in Germany, I would expect to be staring at bars pretty quickly.

    The burkha can easily be seen as an instrument of oppression - I think it is one - and I would support such a ban in a heartbeat.

    ps. The article was wrong about Iran's laws.
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  5. #5
    Good Enough brownnation's Avatar
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    02.18.16 @ 03:10 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme View Post
    Maybe, but think about it. Whilst a lot of muslim women choose to cover their hair and forehead, it is pretty obvious that very few, if any, would choose to wear a full burkha. Those that do are generally forced to by family and freedom from that seems to be the aim of the proposed legislation.

    Besides, most western countries also have laws about what can and can't be worn. Wasn't it recently made illegal in Louisiana to wear your trousers too low? And are women allowed to sunbathe topless on US beaches? If I tried wearing a full SS uniform here in Germany, I would expect to be staring at bars pretty quickly.

    The burkha can easily be seen as an instrument of oppression - I think it is one - and I would support such a ban in a heartbeat.

    ps. The article was wrong about Iran's laws.
    Believe me, I agree with you about the burka and Muslim ideas of women's standing in society. You'll never get an argument from me there! But restricting their attire in the name of freedom is backward. You are just going to create more problems and a greater backlash. The problem is deeper than an item of clothing and the solution needs to be deeper also. The need to oppress women needs to be eliminated and then women can wear whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want, wherever the hell they want, and we don't need to be policing that, because we'll know for certain that they are free to make any expression they want. Telling them not to wear it is as bad as telling them to wear it.

    As for the other standards of attire that you mention, I agree, there are certain standards of dress that restricted. I never said I agree with those either. But even if I did agree with other restrictions, that does not equate them to the burka. As you said the burka is entangled in a broader philosophy of oppression of women and that can't be ignored. This is what is at issue, and those other restrictions have their own issued. I don't believe it is instructive to lump them all in together.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk Lodewijk's Avatar
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    05.21.17 @ 06:59 AM
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    They should just be forced to take them off before entering Banks and Federal Buildings, like they do with ski-masks.


    As far as worldly oppressed women go, IF I decided to butt into anyone elses business, I'd take on the Chinese customs of foot binding and clitoris mutilation......those seem much more appalling to me, and from what I've heard and read, still quite the common practice in some areas.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lodewijk View Post
    They should just be forced to take them off before entering Banks and Federal Buildings, like they do with ski-masks.


    As far as worldly oppressed women go, IF I decided to butt into anyone elses business, I'd take on the Chinese customs of foot binding and clitoris mutilation......those seem much more appalling to me, and from what I've heard and read, still quite the common practice in some areas.
    I've often wondered why no one has tried robbing a bank wearing burkas. It amazes me that people are allowed to wear those things but i'll be damned if someone could get on an airplane, walk in to a courthouse or a bank wearing a ski mask.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  8. #8
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    12.11.17 @ 07:17 PM
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    Yeah, there is another thread for this, but to me, they are just a symbol
    of antiquated thought and repression. You see a lot of burkas here in
    Thailand and whenever I do, I just feel sorry for them - nevermind the
    ridiculous impositions of religious dogma, they are just impractical in this heat
    (black, no less - hey! smellin good!) and how they only contribute to sidewalk
    congestion via their limited mobility as they waddle about and drag those low
    hems through all the street grime. But what do I know, fucking infidel.

 

 

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