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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Innocent bath pictures, or child porn?

    Sadly, this is a sign of the times...

    Last fall A.J. and Lisa Demaree took a memory stick with family photos to the printing center at the Wal-Mart store in Peoria, Ariz. Some of the photos showed their three young girls, all under 5 years old, partially nude in the bathtub. The Demarees say these were innocent pictures that all families take. But a Wal-Mart employee felt otherwise and contacted the police who agreed that this was a child pornography situation.

    The Demaree's lawyer released this photo to show the pictures of the girls are innocent.


    The police report read, "The young girl appeared to be posed in a provocative manner." A report issued by Peoria authorities described the photos as "child erotica" and "sex exploitation."

    Child Protective Services searched the Demaree home and took custody of the children for a month while the state investigated. The watched family videotapes and found a few in which the children were playing unclothed. Lisa was suspended from her school job for a year, and both of their names were placed on the sex offender registry. The couple spent $75,000 on legal bills.

    The Demarees were eventually cleared of any charges and their daughters returned, but they are now suing the state and Wal-Mart for what they call unfair accusations.

    This morning the Demarees appeared on "Good Morning America." "I don't' understand it at all," A.J. told "GMA." "Ninety-nine percent of the families in America have these exact same photos."

    "It took us a long time to take a picture [again]," Lisa told "GMA." "I even worry about them in their bathing suits now, if I get a shot of them in their bathing suits and they're tilting their heads a certain way or their hips are sticking out a little bit, all I think of is 'Does someone think that it was posed? Or how is that going to be perceived?'"

    "Honestly we've missed a year of our children's lives as far as our memories go," Lisa added, "As crazy as it may seem, what you may think are the most beautiful innocent pictures of your children may be seen as something completely different and completely perverted."

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes...ime.photos.cnn
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  2. #2
    Eruption 5150's Avatar
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    12.02.17 @ 12:58 PM
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    Wow. Whoever called the police over this (from Walmart) should be shot.
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  3. #3
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    nothing wrong with calling the police if they were at all concerned. a neighbour of mine had a similar situation happen to him. cops showed up at his house, talked to him and his wife for about 2 minutes and figured out the photos were perfectly innocent.

    sadly, whenever a man picks up nude photos (even of his own kids) people might think something sinister is at hand. Better to be safe than sorry. If it happened to me, I'd have no issue talking to a cop for a minute if it means some little kid is safer for it.

    i'd like to know the whole story behind this being such a prolonged affair. This is either questionable police work or there is more to this story.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    07.30.17 @ 08:59 PM
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    This should never have fucking happened. Can't believe the readiness with which some people embark on their witch hunts.

    The police dept should be fucking ashamed and that dolt working at WalMart....well, here's to hoping that person has reached their occupational apex in this world and never ever fucking leaves there.
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  5. #5
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Well the Wal-Mart employee is...............a Wal-Mart employee. The reaction by the authorities is what surprises me.

  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel View Post
    Well the Wal-Mart employee is...............a Wal-Mart employee. The reaction by the authorities is what surprises me.
    exactly - someone at Walmart might be guilty of being overly cautious. No crime in that. But a skilled professional should be able to figure this out in no time. I have photos of my son in the bath - if the photo developer called a cop when i picked them up, I'd understand. I wouldn't be happy, but I'd understand.

    If a cop walked into my house and figured that taking my son away was a proper course of action, well maybe he should be looking for another line of work. A good cop (most of them are great) can spot the difference between good parents and a pedophile in about 2 minutes. Walmart should not be sued (they are only because they're an easy target with lots of money) - the people responsible for taking these kids away should be. As a parent this story sickens me. Government is given great power but that power MUST be used properly. When they don't , they must be punshed at a level 1000 times greater than a normal person would be.

  7. #7
    Eruption lacy_vious's Avatar
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    my parents have naked pics of me as a kid, all of my siblings too. Seems like the most "normal" thing. Growing up all my friends were always afraid of their parents pulling out the baby album.

    I've often wondered what the difference is between those pictures and the "kiddie porn." The reality is "not much." More often than not, "kiddie porn" comes in the form of pictures just like this taken from family blogs and websites. Not all kiddie porn is produced in back rooms with children being manipulated into poses. Sometimes they're just stolen photos of naked or semi-naked kids at bath time, by the pool or on the beach.

    Hell, go to Borders, BDalton or Barnes and Noble (wait, do they still have BDalton?) and you can buy nationally published coffee table books of naked infants and toddlers.

    It's incredibly alarming that all it takes is some fucking schmuck at a photomat to get someone's kids taken away from them and some crazy investigation as to whether or not mom and dad are kiddie porn freaks. What's even more alarming is that anyone would think that's completely acceptable.

    Once again I find myself saying the same thing: either we have a free society or we don't. How hyper vigilant are we going to allow the government and the community as a whole to be? How much privacy are we willing to give up? How much dignity are we willing to sacrifice? Have we gotten to the point where we are willing to be treated as KIDDIE PORN PRODUCERS, to lose our jobs, to have our family broken up during a formal investigation just in hopes that it prevents a REAL kiddie porn producer from taking their USB sticks to a photomat? Which they don't do anyways?! I mean really, anyone who honestly thinks kiddie porn producers take their pics to a walmart, walgreens or any other photomat are out of their minds.

    C'mon guys. This should not have happened whatsoever period. This is just another example of the too quick to be outraged world we live in. There is such a thing as TOO vigilant, TOO protective, TOO careful, TOO fearful and TOO cautious.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  9. #9
    Eruption Yerfdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i'd like to know the whole story behind this being such a prolonged affair. This is either questionable police work or there is more to this story.
    For A.J. and Lisa Demaree, the photos they snapped of their young daughters were innocent and sweet.
    Children were taken into protective custody over pictures taken at bath time.

    But after a photo developer at Walmart thought otherwise, the Demarees found themselves in a yearlong battle to prove they were not child pornographers.

    "I don't' understand it at all," A.J. Demaree told "Good Morning America" Monday. "Ninety-nine percent of the families in America have these exact same photos."

    The eight photos in question were among a batch of 144 family photos the Demarees had taken to their local Walmart. The developer alerted the police and the investigation into child pornography began in earnest, even though the parents maintained they were innocent bath time photos.

    The Peoria, Ariz., couple had their home searched by police and worse, their children -- then ages 18 months, 4 and 5 -- were taken from them for more than month. Their names were placed on a sex offender registry for a time, and Lisa Demaree was suspended from her school job for a year. The couple said they have spent $75,000 on legal bills.

    A report issued by local authorities described the photos as "child erotica" and "sex exploitation," the couple's lawyer Dick Treon told "Good Morning America." He said the person responsible for the report was unqualified to make such judgments.

    The Demarees are now sharing a few of the photos with the public, he said, so the "truth to catch up with the lie."

    "These photos were never intended for anyone to see except for family members," Treon said. "Perversion is in the eye of the viewer."

    Eventually, a judge threw out charges against the Demarees, but now they're going on the legal offensive by suing the state, the city and Walmart for their role in what they call a "nightmare."

    "I think that we need to have an awareness of how our innocent photographs can be misconstrued and misperceived," Lisa Demaree said.

    The Demarees are suing the city of Peoria and the State Attorney General's office for defamation. They're also suing Wal-Mart for failing to tell them that they had an "unsuitable print policy" and could turn over photos to law enforcement without their knowledge.

    "At Walmart, we're committed to providing quality service and convenience to our photo customers," the company said in a statement. "These are sensitive allegations and we're taking them very seriously."

    "It was unbelievable. I was in so much disbelief. I started to hyperventilate. I tried to breathe it out," Lisa Demaree told "GMA" this weekend, struggling through tears. "Some of the photos are bath time photos, but there are a few after the bath. Three of the girls are naked, laying on a towel with their arms around each other, and we thought it was so cute."

    Lisa Demaree told "Good Morning America" today that the girls seem to be doing well, but that her oldest is showing some signs of anxiety when she visits other people's homes. She calls her experience in state care as time at the "stranger's house."

    "They're doing really well, I think, considering what happened," she said. "But sometimes we don't know the effects that children experience and are undergoing when they go through things like this."

    House Searched, Children Taken

    After Walmart alerted them, investigators went to the Demaree home to question them and search their residence where the children live with their parents.

    A.J. Demaree said he could understand why the police were there, but he said the pictures were innocuous snapshots of his kids goofing around, and some of them involved the children being naked.

    "We have told our girls that they have freedom to be in their home and feel OK about their bodies and their nudity, but that there is a time and a place for it," Lisa said.

    Police seized numerous videotapes and the Demarees' computers and said they found more photos and videos of the children frolicking without clothes.

    Investigators and Child Protective Services saw it very differently and removed the children from the house.

    A medical exam of the children revealed no signs of sexual abuse, and a judge ruled that the photos were in fact harmless.

    ABC News legal expert Dana Cole said that in cases of child pornography authorities need to prove sexual intent on the part of the parents, and that after the judge reviewed the case and the Demarees underwent psychological evaluation, it was determined that there was no such intent.

    From the Demarees perspective, the damage was already done.

    Police and prosecutors insist they did what they thought was appropriate.

    "It took us a long time to take a picture [again]," Lisa Demaree said. "I even worry about them in their bathing suits now, if I get a shot of them in their bathing suits and they're tilting their heads a certain way or their hips are sticking out a little bit, all I think of is 'Does someone think that it was posed? Or how is that going to be perceived?'"

    Steve Meissner, a spokesman for Child Protective Services, released a statement saying, "When a police agency calls us on a matter, we have an obligation to act on that matter. If we refused, the community would be very unhappy with us."

    The city of Peoria also states that it stands behind the appropriate actions of their officers.

    "Honestly we've missed a year of our children's lives as far as our memories go," Lisa Demaree said, "As crazy as it may seem, what you may think are the most beautiful innocent pictures of your children may be seen as something completely different and completely perverted."
    I swear, it's like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids or somethin'. You nerve-wrackin' sons-a-bitches.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    The city of Peoria also states that it stands behind the appropriate actions of their officers.
    Just this line alone is infuriating. This went well beyond the borders of common fucking sense.
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  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    my parents have naked pics of me as a kid, all of my siblings too. Seems like the most "normal" thing. Growing up all my friends were always afraid of their parents pulling out the baby album.

    I've often wondered what the difference is between those pictures and the "kiddie porn." The reality is "not much." More often than not, "kiddie porn" comes in the form of pictures just like this taken from family blogs and websites. Not all kiddie porn is produced in back rooms with children being manipulated into poses. Sometimes they're just stolen photos of naked or semi-naked kids at bath time, by the pool or on the beach.

    Hell, go to Borders, BDalton or Barnes and Noble (wait, do they still have BDalton?) and you can buy nationally published coffee table books of naked infants and toddlers.

    It's incredibly alarming that all it takes is some fucking schmuck at a photomat to get someone's kids taken away from them and some crazy investigation as to whether or not mom and dad are kiddie porn freaks. What's even more alarming is that anyone would think that's completely acceptable.

    Once again I find myself saying the same thing: either we have a free society or we don't. How hyper vigilant are we going to allow the government and the community as a whole to be? How much privacy are we willing to give up? How much dignity are we willing to sacrifice? Have we gotten to the point where we are willing to be treated as KIDDIE PORN PRODUCERS, to lose our jobs, to have our family broken up during a formal investigation just in hopes that it prevents a REAL kiddie porn producer from taking their USB sticks to a photomat? Which they don't do anyways?! I mean really, anyone who honestly thinks kiddie porn producers take their pics to a walmart, walgreens or any other photomat are out of their minds.

    C'mon guys. This should not have happened whatsoever period. This is just another example of the too quick to be outraged world we live in. There is such a thing as TOO vigilant, TOO protective, TOO careful, TOO fearful and TOO cautious.
    Broken,

    but it's not the person at the photoshop that makes that judgement - they are not in a position to make that judgement. If I see you breaking into your car (and I don't know its yours) and I call the cops, I've done nothing wrong. If they throw u in jail only on my call, that's the problem. It's not the person who's being too protective that is the issue, it's the people that we pay to make professional judgements who have made the mistake here.

  12. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    thanks yerfdog



    A.J. Demaree said he could understand why the police were there, but he said the pictures were innocuous snapshots of his kids goofing around, and some of them involved the children being naked.


    he gets it. his lawyer won't be happy to read this.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Broken,

    but it's not the person at the photoshop that makes that judgement - they are not in a position to make that judgement. If I see you breaking into your car (and I don't know its yours) and I call the cops, I've done nothing wrong. If they throw u in jail only on my call, that's the problem. It's not the person who's being too protective that is the issue, it's the people that we pay to make professional judgements who have made the mistake here.
    a fine point.

    there are idiots all up and down the chain on this one...and the only way I can think the parents are idiots is by thinking they are idiots for not expecting that all the other idiots in today's world would think they were kiddie porn mongers for taking pics of their kids.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Broken,

    but it's not the person at the photoshop that makes that judgement - they are not in a position to make that judgement. If I see you breaking into your car (and I don't know its yours) and I call the cops, I've done nothing wrong. If they throw u in jail only on my call, that's the problem. It's not the person who's being too protective that is the issue, it's the people that we pay to make professional judgements who have made the mistake here.

    DUDE!!! Some idiot without a lick of sense to him (or her) took a look at pics of someone's own children (one of which was even shown for reference) and decided to go all fucking Dick Tracy. This prompted visits by more dolts probably out to make names for themselves and ruined - yes, RUINED - a family. Branded sex offenders?? Loss of a job?? 75 fucking grand just because of someone elses inability to judge at 7.25 an hour???

    This goes well past just some schmoe trying to jimmy the lock on a car, bud. Holy shit!
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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    a fine point.

    there are idiots all up and down the chain on this one...and the only way I can think the parents are idiots is by thinking they are idiots for not expecting that all the other idiots in today's world would think they were kiddie porn mongers for taking pics of their kids.
    from everything i've read, i just feel terribly for the parents and these kids. they did nothing wrong.

    some people who should have better judgement didn't. They should be find another line of work. The city should get their chequebook ready.

    I know everyone likes to rip on Walmart, but given a similar situation, I think they would do the same thing again. I don't think they made a mistake - except maybe they expected too much from the investigators.

 

 

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