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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    09-09-09, Presidential Address to Congress

    What a circle jerk...

    talk talk talk, standing fucking ovations...

    talk talk talk....


    standing ovation...
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

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    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Pelosi's eyes glow red and her face keeps doing this strange reptilian shape-shift thing. Weird.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    What a circle jerk...

    talk talk talk, standing fucking ovations...

    talk talk talk....


    standing ovation...
    And how is this different from any other Presidental address of congress? The only difference I see is the one Senator or Congressman (presumably Republican) at Obama's left who yelled "lies" which is pretty poor decorum regardless of politics. Never saw Bush or Reagan get heckled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by looper_guy View Post
    And how is this different from any other Presidental address of congress?
    The difference is I'm wasting my time trying to watch this one, and it's an ego tripping fucking joke... Were they all like this in the past?
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

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    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Always.

    You have to pay attention to who stands and who stays seated after he says something. The dividing lines between Republican (to his left) and Democrat (to his right).
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

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    Always.

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    It's almost like politics.

    Wait....
    Utilize. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    That was an improvement over his previous extremely vague and distorted health care address. Still vague though and not much answered. Very partisan speech and distorting the issues as usual. Still not shooting altogether straight. But an improvement.
    Bottom line, both sides need to come together and do what's best for the country. I doubt they're capable, but would be great if they proved me wrong.
    Could be a start. Too soon to judge, but possibly a step in the right direction, I hope.
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Hey, gotta give him the credit. He finally figured out what it means to be President. You inspire people to support your vision for the country. He did a good job of that tonight for a lot of people, I'm sure.


    A couple things I noticed:

    We should all be honest about what this really is. Forcing insurance companies to cover everyone, then having the government pick up the slack is Medical Welfare. I can't believe the right hasn't called it this yet.

    Can Congress FORCE you to buy something? He mentioned car insurance--except nobody forces you to buy a car. If I only want to ride the bus or use a driver, it would be pretty silly to force me to buy car insurance. Further, he's going to use the IRS to tax people that don't buy it? Is it even legal for the government to force you to buy something? Besides, with auto insurance, you can buy it out of state, creating more competition.

    After using the $45 million uninsured number up until now, he used the 30 million figure in a speech saying it wouldn't cover illegals. I guess apparently we're going to check their documents before we treat them for emergencies? Interestingly enough, at least HALF of those 30 million people that don't have health care CAN afford it--they just choose not to. Apparently, he wants to take away that choice.

    He said people or business wouldn't be "required" to choose the public option. Just because one is not required doesn't mean it won't happen. Don't be surprised to see lots of business switch over if it is cheaper. How many people will then be forced to pay significantly more for the same coverage they had before?

    He used social security and Medi-care as examples. Problem is, both of these are tens of trillions of dollars in debt. He also said that no money would be taken from the Medi-care trust fund. Well no shit, sir, it's close to $35 trillion in debt. There ISN'T anything to borrow!

    There's just zero, no, none, nada way that America can significantly increase demand for a finite product (doctors and hospitals don't grow on trees) and keep prices the same, or lower. In this way, either rates go up, or money is borrowed, or rationing occurs. If rates go up, he is working against what he is trying to accomplish. If it is borrowed, we either pay for it later with higher taxes or inflation from printing money, and if rationing occurs--well, I don't want anyone to say I am using scare tactics, but....Obama can't repeal the law of supply and demand.

    Programs that are funded by other people's money and are NOT for profit I just don't believe will be magically efficient because Obama says so.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    That was an improvement over his previous extremely vague and distorted health care address. Still vague though and not much answered. Very partisan speech and distorting the issues as usual. Still not shooting altogether straight. But an improvement.
    Bottom line, both sides need to come together and do what's best for the country. I doubt they're capable, but would be great if they proved me wrong.
    Could be a start. Too soon to judge, but possibly a step in the right direction, I hope.
    Im with him on this one. I only caught the last 20 minutes of the speech but the stuff I did see made sence.

    Why cant republicans and democrats WORK TOGETHER for the common good of all american citizens? Its not rocket science. I believe that there are people who are just blowing this thing wayyyy out of proportion and not focusing on what needs to be done. The simple fact is, is that the health care system in this country sucks and its time that it get overhauled. Forget the politics, forget the lobbying, forget the bullshit. Why is it so hard that americans cant agree on whats best for our country right now. So what if health care is goverment controlled or monitored. That just tells me that the insurance companies have no choice but to keep your current plan at the rate you signed up for or not drop it for no fucking reason.

    Call me socialist or whatever....but I think that there are too many old geezers out there that just dont want to deal with this and want to keep the health care system as it is so that they dont have to worry about busting their ass for the american people.
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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post

    Can Congress FORCE you to buy something? .... Further, he's going to use the IRS to tax people that don't buy it? Is it even legal for the government to force you to buy something?
    That was a real big red flag. IRS are nothing but thugs. Forcing people to buy something and giving the IRS license to enforce policy when people don't comply is just plain scary.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Boxer 9901 View Post
    Im with him on this one. I only caught the last 20 minutes of the speech but the stuff I did see made sence.

    Why cant republicans and democrats WORK TOGETHER for the common good of all american citizens? Its not rocket science. I believe that there are people who are just blowing this thing wayyyy out of proportion and not focusing on what needs to be done.
    You're right, they should. But, the politicians we vote for put party above policy and principle every time. Many Americans do to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Boxer 9901 View Post
    The simple fact is, is that the health care system in this country sucks and its time that it get overhauled.
    This is where the distortion comes in. The guy who shouted "lie" shouted it at the wrong time. The lie was when he said we spend more on health care than anybody else and we aren't any healthier for it. It's a flat out lie.

    In fact, our life expectancy with almost every disease is longer than any other country.

    Our life expectancy is 35th in the world. BUT, take away automobile accidents and violent crime, we are NUMBER 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Boxer 9901 View Post
    Forget the politics, forget the lobbying, forget the bullshit. Why is it so hard that americans cant agree on whats best for our country right now. So what if health care is goverment controlled or monitored. That just tells me that the insurance companies have no choice but to keep your current plan at the rate you signed up for or not drop it for no fucking reason.

    Call me socialist or whatever....but I think that there are too many old geezers out there that just dont want to deal with this and want to keep the health care system as it is so that they dont have to worry about busting their ass for the american people.
    You just said it. Americans DON'T agree on what's best. If someone doesn't wanna pay for health insurance, they don't have to.

    Is insurance one of the biggest problems with health care? Yes. But this isn't the way to fix it.

  13. #13
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    From the Washington Post:

    The rapidly deteriorating national discourse reached a new low on the House floor Wednesday night as President Obama addressed a joint session of Congress.

    It happened at 8:40 pm, just after the president vowed to lawmakers that his health-care reform proposals would not provide benefits to illegal immigrants. As millions of Americans watched from home, Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) shouted at the president from his fifth-row seat: "You lie!"

    Murmurs of "ooh" filled the stunned chamber. Nancy Pelosi's chin dropped. Obama moved on to the next sentence in his speech, about how no federal money would be used to fund abortion. "Not true!" someone shouted. The national debate, already raw for years, had coarsened over the summer as town hall meetings across the country dissolved into protests about "death panels" and granny-killing. Guns were brought to Obama appearances. A pastor in Arizona said he was praying for Obama to die.

    But even by that standard, there was something appalling about the display on the House floor for what was supposed to be a sacred ritual of American democracy: the nation watching while Cabinet members, lawmakers from both chambers and the diplomatic corps assembled.

    Wilson was only the most flagrant. There was booing from House Republicans when the president caricatured a conservative argument by saying they would "leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own." They hissed when he protested their "scare tactics." They grumbled as they do in Britain's House of Commons when Obama spoke of the "blizzard of charges and counter-charges."

    When he asserted that "nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have," there was scoffing and outright laughter on the GOP side. Rep. Jeb Hensarling (Tex.) shook his head in disbelief. Several Republicans shouted "What plan?" and Rep. Louis Gohmert (Tex.) waved at Obama a handwritten poster he made on a letter-size piece of paper: "WHAT PLAN?" Gohmert then took that down and replaced it with another handmade poster that said "WHAT BILL?"

    The irony was that Obama had used his speech to offer a significant concession to Republicans, and to break with liberals in his own party. There was a cool silence in the chamber as the president told "my progressive friends" that the "public option" they treasure as part of health-care reform could be sacrificed in favor of other ideas.



    And, in truth, there were provocations from the Democratic side. Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.), sitting on the Republican side, insisted on making a victory sign with his hand and waving it at Obama. Rep. Al Green (D-Tex.), also on the GOP side of the aisle, felt the need to pound his fist in the air and make what looked, awkwardly, like a fascist salute.

    Scolding Republicans for scoring "short-term political points," Obama wasn't subtle in his effort to make his foes look cruel. The White House stocked the first lady's box at the speech with a virtual medical ward: a woman with sarcoidosis, a colon cancer patient, a recurrent cancer survivor, a double amputee, two women with breast tumors, a woman with eye problems, a man with high cholesterol, two brain tumor survivors, the son of a brain cancer victim and the fathers of children who have seizures and hemophilia.

    But while the majority of both parties' lawmakers behaved as adults, the insolence by House Republicans stole the show. There was derisive laughter on that side of the chamber when Obama noted that "there remain some significant details to be ironed out." They applauded as he spoke of "all the misinformation that's been spread over the past few months." They laughed again when he said that "many Americans have grown nervous about reform."

    When Obama addressed the charge that he plans "panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens," someone on the GOP side shouted out "shame!" The president went on: "Such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical." "Read the bill!" someone shouted back. Obama mentioned those who accuse him of a government takeover of health care. "It's true," someone shouted back.

    The antics continued when Obama urged opponents to "come to me with a serious set of proposals." About 20 Republican members raised copies of the GOP health-reform proposal over their heads. They raised their props again when Obama criticized those who think "it's better politics to kill this plan than improve it."

    Even as Obama delivered a tribute to the late senator Ted Kennedy, Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga), a leader of House conservatives, perused his BlackBerry. Shortly before the speech ended, Rep. Patrick McHenry (R-N.C.) walked out to beat the rush.

    Above all, though, was Wilson's effrontery. From the reaction in the chamber -- one Democrat could be heard calling for him to be thrown out -- Wilson knew he had stepped in it. He shrugged, then consulted his BlackBerry. He puffed out his cheeks to exhale and licked his lips.

    Toward the end of Obama's speech, the text of which was handed out before the congressman's outburst, was a fitting rebuke of the sort of behavior Wilson had just exhibited. When "we can no longer even engage in a civil conversation with each other over the things that truly matter," Obama said, "we don't merely lose our capacity to solve big challenges. We lose something essential about ourselves."

    As Obama spoke these words, Wilson twiddled his thumbs, then took his BlackBerry from its holster to consult it yet again. The speech ended, and, as his colleagues applauded, Wilson beat a hasty retreat.

    An incensed White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel went up to GOP Reps. Roy Blunt (Mo.) and Paul Ryan (Wis.) to complain about the outburst. "No president has ever had that happen," Emanuel said. "My advice is he apologize immediately. You know my number."

    Wilson instead issued a statement about his "inappropriate" outburst. After all that shouting, he may have been too hoarse to place a call.





    This current batch of Republicans is turning out to be a miserable batch of whiny assclowns.







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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    I'd apply that to most of Congress, regardless of party.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    Pelosi's eyes glow red and her face keeps doing this strange reptilian shape-shift thing. Weird.


    Fucking beautiful Wruff. I saw her eyes blink from left to right. Nasty.

    Sorry Eden, I know she is the wind beneath your wings, but that Hound From Hell needs a freakin milkbone.

    She's almost gone.........THANK GOD!!!!

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