Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32
  1. #1
    Good Enough Thai Boxer 9901's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.08.03
    Age
    29
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho U.S.A
    Posts
    2,638
    Favorite VH Album

    5150, OU812, Balance, F.U.C.K
    Favorite VH Song

    Dont have one
    Last Online

    08.28.16 @ 11:47 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts

    Default F-22 Raptor program getting cut early?

    Just saw this on yahoo...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/...fense_spending

    WASHINGTON The Senate voted Tuesday to halt production of the Air Force's missile-eluding F-22 Raptor fighter jets in a high-stakes showdown over President Barack Obama's efforts to shift defense spending to a new generation of smaller F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

    The 58-40 vote reflected an all-out lobbying campaign by the administration, which had to overcome resistance from lawmakers confronted with the potential losses of defense-related jobs if the F-22 program was terminated.

    "The president really needed to win this vote," Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., said. Levin said it was important not only on the merits of the planes but "in terms of changing the way we do business in Washington."

    The top Republican on the committee, John McCain of Arizona, agreed that it was "a signal that we are not going to continue to build weapons systems with cost overruns which outlive their requirements for defending this nation."

    Supporters of the program cited both the importance of the F-22 to U.S. security interests pointing out that China and Russia are developing planes that can compete with it and a need to protect aerospace jobs in a bad economy.

    Defense Secretary Robert Gates and other Pentagon officials have determined that production of the F-22, which has not been used in Iraq and Afghanistan, should be stopped at 187 planes in order to focus on the F-35, which would also be available to the Navy and Marine Corps.

    Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, countered that the F-35 is designed to supplement, not replace, the F-22, "the "NASCAR racer of this air dominance team." Supporters of the F-22 have put the number needed at anywhere from 250 to 380.

    The defense bill has funds to build 30 F-35s. The plane is currently being produced in small numbers for testing purposes. The single-engine plane will eventually replace the venerable F-16 and the Air Force's aging fleet of A-10s. Its primary purpose is to attack targets on the ground.

    The twin-engine F-22 Raptor is a jet the Air Force would use for air-to-air combat missions.

    McCain said the voting margin of victory was "directly attributable" to Obama, his opponent in the last presidential election, and Gates, who has pushed for termination of the F-22 and other weapons systems he says have outlived their usefulness.

    The vote removed $1.75 billion set aside in a $680 billion defense policy bill to build seven more F-22 Raptors, adding to the 187 stealth technology fighters already built or being built.

    The Senate action also saved Obama from what could have been a political embarrassment. He had urged the Senate to strip out the money and threatened what would have been the first veto of his presidency if the F-22 money remained.

    Immediately after the vote, Obama told reporters at the White House the Senate's decision would "better protect our troops."

    White House officials said Vice President Joe Biden and chief of staff Rahm Emanuel lobbied senators, as did Gates.

    Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Tuesday that spending on the stealth fighter would "inhibit our ability to buy things we do need," including Gates' proposal to add 22,000 soldiers to the Army.

    "I've never seen the White House lobby like they've lobbied on this issue," said Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, an F-22 supporter whose state would be hit hard by a production shutdown.

    According to Lockheed Martin Corp., the main contractor for both planes, 25,000 people are directly employed in building the F-22, and an additional 70,000 have indirect links, particularly in Georgia, Texas and California.

    Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., a strong backer of the program, said his state stood to lose 2,000 to 4,000 jobs if F-22 production ended.

    Levin suggested that some workers might be shifted to F-35 production. "We have to find places for people who are losing their jobs," he said.

    The House last month approved its version of the defense bill with a $369 million down payment for 12 additional F-22 fighters. The House Appropriations Committee last week endorsed that spending in drawing up its Pentagon budget for next year. It also approved $534 million for an alternate engine for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, another program that Obama, backed by the Pentagon, says is unwarranted and would subject the entire bill to a veto.

    The defense bill authorizes $550 billion for defense programs and $130 billion for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and for other anti-terrorist operations.


    I honestly didnt think they would cut it so much but on the flip side, when each plane costs about $361 million EACH, I can understand why they cut it back so much. But still, 187 Raptors is small when you look at how many Falcons, Eagles, Tomcats and Hornets have been built
    Facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=504401115
    YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/jedimasterkyle

    BOISE STATE BRONCOS! - They're awesome. Deal with it!

    11/16/04 - VAN HALEN in Boise, Idaho. Changed my life forever

    8/8/06 - Sammy Hagar and the Wabos w/Michael Anthony in Boise, Idaho. Sam and Mike still kick ass

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.25.99
    Age
    45
    Location
    Pasadena, CA, USA
    Posts
    8,946
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Hear About It Later
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 11:16 PM
    Likes
    1,017
    Liked 1,390 Times in 763 Posts

    Default

    It's the maintenance costs that killed it. Anyways way too many fighter planes - the Cold War-style "war in the sky" that was planned for when those programs were developed will likely never happen. Money's better spent elsewhere, in these dire times.
    Little Dreamer

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    06.15.06
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,741
    Favorite VH Album

    VHIII/WACF/OU51BALUCK
    Last Online

    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    It's the maintenance costs that killed it. Anyways way too many fighter planes - the Cold War-style "war in the sky" that was planned for when those programs were developed will likely never happen. Money's better spent elsewhere, in these dire times.
    i agree with this.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  4. #4
    Future's in the past....
    Join Date
    03.03.08
    Age
    51
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    13,090
    Favorite VH Album

    WACF, FW, DD
    Favorite VH Song

    At the moment, Little Guitars
    Last Online

    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    The fact of the matter is, we having an aging airfleet in the US. The F-15 is a fine aircraft, but designed and started manufacturing when? The F-14 is retired and the F/A-18 is doing well, but we need the F-22 for what we DON'T see coming around the corner.
    11/05/78 Hollywood Sportatorium
    12/10/82 Hollywood Sportatorium
    01/20/84 Hollywood Sportatorium
    01/21/84 Hollywood Sportatorium
    02/16/08 Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I've got dreams in hidden places and extra smiles for when I'm blue.

  5. #5
    Good Enough Thai Boxer 9901's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.08.03
    Age
    29
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho U.S.A
    Posts
    2,638
    Favorite VH Album

    5150, OU812, Balance, F.U.C.K
    Favorite VH Song

    Dont have one
    Last Online

    08.28.16 @ 11:47 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VanHalenRules View Post
    The fact of the matter is, we having an aging airfleet in the US. The F-15 is a fine aircraft, but designed and started manufacturing when? The F-14 is retired and the F/A-18 is doing well, but we need the F-22 for what we DON'T see coming around the corner.
    The F-15 was designed either during vietnam or after it. And the F-18's are doing their role of fleet defender perfectly but they are going to need replaced sometime down the road too. The F-22 is only assigned to 7 squadrons around the US. Most of them are around key goverment hotspots (langley most notably) but they are also deployed in Alaska and Hawaii and Florida as coastal defense from Russia or whoever else. 7 squadrons is pretty hard to spread out over the entire continental US and with only 187 planes, it makes it even harder.
    Facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=504401115
    YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/jedimasterkyle

    BOISE STATE BRONCOS! - They're awesome. Deal with it!

    11/16/04 - VAN HALEN in Boise, Idaho. Changed my life forever

    8/8/06 - Sammy Hagar and the Wabos w/Michael Anthony in Boise, Idaho. Sam and Mike still kick ass

  6. #6
    Eruption Gypsy King's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.21.07
    Age
    46
    Location
    Severna Park, MD
    Posts
    857
    Favorite VH Album

    1984
    Favorite VH Song

    Girl Gone Bad
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 04:17 PM
    Likes
    330
    Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VanHalenRules View Post
    The fact of the matter is, we having an aging airfleet in the US. The F-15 is a fine aircraft, but designed and started manufacturing when? The F-14 is retired and the F/A-18 is doing well, but we need the F-22 for what we DON'T see coming around the corner.
    The F-35 will probably become the premier fighter in our airfleet.

    On a side note, my dad helped design the aeronautics for the F-14 and F-15. That was in the late-60's-early-70's. Aged technology, indeed!!

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.25.99
    Age
    45
    Location
    Pasadena, CA, USA
    Posts
    8,946
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Hear About It Later
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 11:16 PM
    Likes
    1,017
    Liked 1,390 Times in 763 Posts

    Default

    Yes but if they're gonna build stuff for what we don't see coming, where will it stop? What if an enemy power would build an underwater nuclear launching pad in the middle of the Pacific ocean? Should we prepare for underwater war? Alien invasion?

    Let's not be naive here. A lot of these programs have nothing to do with "being prepared," and everything to do with pork, corruption, and a lot of mid-level officials lining up their pockets with various commissions associated with those huge contracts, at the national and state level. Various lobbying groups are trying to have these programs continued forever coz so many ppl depend on them to make a fortune. Even Eisenhower saw this problem coming in his farewell address.
    Little Dreamer

  8. #8
    Eruption ChrisTheEdHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.29.00
    Age
    48
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA USA
    Posts
    1,136
    Favorite VH Album

    the next one!
    Last Online

    03.11.12 @ 12:55 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Yes but if they're gonna build stuff for what we don't see coming, where will it stop? What if an enemy power would build an underwater nuclear launching pad in the middle of the Pacific ocean? Should we prepare for underwater war? Alien invasion?

    Let's not be naive here. A lot of these programs have nothing to do with "being prepared," and everything to do with pork, corruption, and a lot of mid-level officials lining up their pockets with various commissions associated with those huge contracts, at the national and state level. Various lobbying groups are trying to have these programs continued forever coz so many ppl depend on them to make a fortune. Even Eisenhower saw this problem coming in his farewell address.
    Absolutely right. This has everything to do with pork, and nothing to do with defense.
    The funds SHOULD go to the F-35. Imagine an EFFICIENT military air force, with the Air Force, Navy and Marines all having the same planes, with access to the same knowledge base, parts and production? That hasnt happened since the F-4 Phantom.
    Of course, if the USAF could ever learn how to do close-in ground support, we could shut down most of Marine aviation too and save a few more bucks.
    "Look, I'll pay you for it, what the f**k?!"

    "If I don't make her happy in the bedroom the wife gets bitchy for days at a time, but when I come to bed ready for action she laughs and laughs. She even laughs while I make my moves so I know I must be pleasing her as only I can do."
    The one, the only..Wengie

    "Denny Crane" - Denny Crane

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    06.15.06
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,741
    Favorite VH Album

    VHIII/WACF/OU51BALUCK
    Last Online

    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Boxer 9901 View Post
    The F-15 was designed either during vietnam or after it. And the F-18's are doing their role of fleet defender perfectly but they are going to need replaced sometime down the road too. The F-22 is only assigned to 7 squadrons around the US. Most of them are around key goverment hotspots (langley most notably) but they are also deployed in Alaska and Hawaii and Florida as coastal defense from Russia or whoever else. 7 squadrons is pretty hard to spread out over the entire continental US and with only 187 planes, it makes it even harder.
    I agree with this too though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Yes but if they're gonna build stuff for what we don't see coming, where will it stop? What if an enemy power would build an underwater nuclear launching pad in the middle of the Pacific ocean? Should we prepare for underwater war? Alien invasion?

    Let's not be naive here. A lot of these programs have nothing to do with "being prepared," and everything to do with pork, corruption, and a lot of mid-level officials lining up their pockets with various commissions associated with those huge contracts, at the national and state level. Various lobbying groups are trying to have these programs continued forever coz so many ppl depend on them to make a fortune. Even Eisenhower saw this problem coming in his farewell address.
    and once again, I agree with this.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.24.03
    Location
    Cleveland, Oh
    Posts
    12,982
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Dance the Night Away
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 05:21 AM
    Likes
    2,608
    Liked 4,810 Times in 2,455 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Well I for one am thankful for us having some sort of air superiority fighter. Looked at what happened prior to the development of the Mustang, P-38, Hellcat and Corsair in WW2. For some reason we stopped getting our asses kicked once we had fighters that were equal to the task.

    Now I am not saying the F-22 is needed now but it might be. Thinking short term is what got us into the bank bailouts, stimulus package and now health care. True pork is involved but just because there is some doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about national defense.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    06.15.06
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,741
    Favorite VH Album

    VHIII/WACF/OU51BALUCK
    Last Online

    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Well I for one am thankful for us having some sort of air superiority fighter. Looked at what happened prior to the development of the Mustang, P-38, Hellcat and Corsair in WW2. For some reason we stopped getting our asses kicked once we had fighters that were equal to the task.

    Now I am not saying the F-22 is needed now but it might be. Thinking short term is what got us into the bank bailouts, stimulus package and now health care. True pork is involved but just because there is some doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about national defense.
    I agree with this...however, I don't think that those who favour cutting funding on the F22 are suggesting that we not worry about national defense.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  12. #12
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.13.04
    Posts
    6,170
    Favorite VH Album

    Complete Zero
    Favorite VH Song

    Lets Get Rockin
    Last Online

    12.16.17 @ 02:06 PM
    Likes
    548
    Liked 1,863 Times in 732 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Nice though how Obama wouldn't sign off on the entire Defense Bill unless this was removed. Said $$ could be spent better elsewhere. Bullshit. This contract would have done what he claims his spending spree is doing. CREATE FUCKING JOBS. This administration is spending like they can just print more $$$. Oh yeah they can, and now we are all in for higher taxes and bigger government. In the past 6 months gov't has grown by 33%. Now he wants nationalized healthcare so nobody goes uninsured. Even bigger fucking nut that this country can't afford. How about giving Insurance to the people who really can't afford it and leave me and my fucking plan alone.

    Anyway back to the topic. Nobody should be surprised. There isn't a single liberal who likes our military. The weaker we are the better. It just levels the playing field. Something Obama always talks about in his speeches, whether it's about money or power. The only ones who should have any are government and all us servants should just be happy with what they provide. I say screw that. It is time for a revolution. It is time to take back our country from the people in power who wish to destroy it, to take away more of our freedoms and replace them with entitlements. One thing needs to happen in Washington. Wipe the slate clean. Literally
    Last edited by sickman; 07.21.09 at 04:48 PM.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    12.25.01
    Age
    53
    Location
    Carmel, Ca
    Posts
    7,954
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    You\'re Kidding,right?
    Last Online

    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    The F-22 will be back.

    The problem is that the USAF just kept adding demands to the F-22, which drove up costs. It's a great plane, 187 F-22 are equal to 3000 Migs in their overall effectiveness in the sky. Her Supercruise and stealth capability makes the F-22 the single most dangerous fighter ever made.

    What the USAF needs more right now are more C-17s, they're not as sexy as the F-22 but way more important. They also need to address their aging tanker fleet.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


    My Blog:

    http://axxman300tool.blogspot.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/axxman300

  14. #14
    5150
    Join Date
    01.20.04
    Age
    42
    Location
    lexington, illinois
    Posts
    663
    Favorite VH Album

    f.u.c.k. and Balance
    Last Online

    04.02.10 @ 06:19 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sickman View Post
    Nice though how Obama wouldn't sign off on the entire Defense Bill unless this was removed. Said $$ could be spent better elsewhere. Bullshit. This contract would have done what he claims his spending spree is doing. CREATE FUCKING JOBS. This administration is spending like they can just print more $$$. Oh yeah they can, and now we are all in for higher taxes and bigger government. In the past 6 months gov't has grown by 33%. Now he wants nationalized healthcare so nobody goes uninsured. Even bigger fucking nut that this country can't afford. How about giving Insurance to the people who really can't afford it and leave me and my fucking plan alone.

    Anyway back to the topic. Nobody should be surprised. There isn't a single liberal who likes our military. The weaker we are the better. It just levels the playing field. Something Obama always talks about in his speeches, whether it's about money or power. The only ones who should have any are government and all us servants should just be happy with what they provide. I say screw that. It is time for a revolution. It is time to take back our country from the people in power who wish to destroy it, to take away more of our freedoms and replace them with entitlements. One thing needs to happen in Washington. Wipe the slate clean. Literally
    i would agree with that and also would like to see term limits put into the house and senate. these people sit there for yrs and dont give a hoot about the people they used to serve.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    06.15.06
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,741
    Favorite VH Album

    VHIII/WACF/OU51BALUCK
    Last Online

    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J_Alexander View Post
    i would agree with that and also would like to see term limits put into the house and senate. these people sit there for yrs and dont give a hoot about the people they used to serve.
    if the sheep didn't keep voting them in, term limits wouldn't be needed.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. A file share program for a Mac ??
    By Pasadena Murdock in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05.06.02, 06:59 AM
  2. Need a cover art program for boots
    By Reggie Hayse in forum Bootleg Network
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08.26.01, 08:01 PM
  3. MS Windows XP preview program
    By homeunit in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05.21.01, 05:55 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •