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Thread: Hate Crimes

  1. #1
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    Default Hate Crimes


    Contact Your Senators Today!
    The full Senate is scheduled to vote -- this week -- on the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act, so your Senators need to hear from you now! Please send an email and, if you have a couple extra minutes, please call each of your Senators, too.

    Every hour of every day, at least one hate crime offense is committed somewhere in the United States. Of those attacked, it's estimated that at least 15% of hate crimes are related to a person's perceived or actual sexual orientation or gender identity.

    The Matthew Shepard Act gives the Justice Department the power to investigate and prosecute bias-motivated violence. It protects people based on actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.
    Do we need hate crime legislation? Should someone who rapes/assaults/robs/harasses someone based on their perceived or actual sexual orientation, gender, religion etc be penalized with more severity than someone who just rapes/assaults/robs or harasses someone without regard for those things?

    I was disgusted by the Matthew Shepherd case. I was absolutely blown away when some redneck KKK guys dragged a black guy with a chain around his neck until his head came off. I was disturbed when a Jewish lady I met once at Temple told me she cannot put a menorah in her window or hang anything jewish in her car because both are vandalized regularly.

    Yet, I do not support the idea of a "hate crime."

    Why is beating someone up because they're jewish or gay or black any worse than beating someone up because they are rich or are taller or live in a nicer area of town or were dressed in a manner that someone found intolerable?

    All crimes are rooted in some form of hate, judgement, negative discrimination etc.

    Seems like having hate crimes on the books is tantamount to having thought crimes on the books and though I would rather live in a world without racist, anti-semetic homophobic bastards, I'd much rather not have our government try to get into what someone was thinking when they committed a crime...and as distasteful as I might find those opinions, I don't think it should be against the law to hold ANY opinion. It is already against the law to hurt people. So I'm fine with simply punishing people for their acts and let them hold whatever opinions they want.

    What's more...a minority person is almost NEVER accused of a hate crime and a white person is almost never considered a victim of a hate crime.

    I find it to be a disgusting example of discrimination in and of itself...like somehow only minority groups can be the victim of a hate crime.
    Last edited by broken9500; 07.15.09 at 12:30 PM.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    i hate crime.
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    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLFHS View Post
    i hate crime.
    I think HATE is crime...
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  4. #4
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    i quite like Hate Crime legislation. I think somone spray painting something on my front door is much different than someone spraying painting a swastika on a jewish person's door. But that's just me.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i quite like Hate Crime legislation. I think somone spray painting something on my front door is much different than someone spraying painting a swastika on a jewish person's door. But that's just me.
    and it is. The jew on their door will most likely feel something completely different than you would if someone spray painted jibberish on your garage door.

    However, then we are legislating based on the emotional effect of a given act and making anti-jew vandalism worse than regular vandalism in the eyes of the law. Because the jew is hurt emotionally because of the cultural and historic implications, the crime should carry more of a penalty? Doesn't that favour the jews at the expense of you? What if you're a very sensitive person but don't happen to be part of one of the protected classes or minority groups? Say someone spray painted a bunch of jibberish on your garage door and it made you feel paranoid, anxious, afraid, violated and vulnerable. That would only be worth say, probation and time served with some community service whereas the guy that spray painted a swastika has to do a year in the can...and what if the jew didn't really care? Say he wasn't even really a Jew? See, hate crime legislation brings into account the "perceived" class of a person...so just for thinking someone was a jew and painting a swastika you'd be in more trouble than someone who spray painted "kill this van halen fan" on your garage door.

    I just don't think government should be splitting hairs like this.

    Better to have more strict, across the board penalties, for all the various crimes that are strictly enforced rather than trying to give extra deference and protection to "minority" classes and groups.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  6. #6
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    "Because the jew is hurt emotionally because of the cultural and historic implications, the crime should carry more of a penalty? "

    i think so.

    "Doesn't that favour the jews at the expense of you?"

    it does and i'm ok with it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    "Because the jew is hurt emotionally because of the cultural and historic implications, the crime should carry more of a penalty? "

    i think so.

    "Doesn't that favour the jews at the expense of you?"

    it does and i'm ok with it.
    would it be ok to apply this same rationale to everyone though? Base the punishment, not on the crime itself, but on the effect it might have had on the victim?

    So if someone, not part of a group that is general recognized as a protected class, says "i know that this crime would normally carry a 30 day sentence and 600 hours of community service BUT, I really feel violated and like this is the beginning of a groundswell of hatred towards people like me." then the courts should give a stiffer penalty?
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    would it be ok to apply this same rationale to everyone though? Base the punishment, not on the crime itself, but on the effect it might have had on the victim?

    So if someone, not part of a group that is general recognized as a protected class, says "i know that this crime would normally carry a 30 day sentence and 600 hours of community service BUT, I really feel violated and like this is the beginning of a groundswell of hatred towards people like me." then the courts should give a stiffer penalty?
    i think a judge should have it within his/her discretion to add to the penalty if they deem it a hate crime.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i think a judge should have it within his/her discretion to add to the penalty if they deem it a hate crime.
    but don't judges already have it within their authority to add to a penalty?

    What's more, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a judge determining what is and isn't a "hate crime." All too often just because someone is black or gay and are a victim of a crime, the system immediately wants to try the perp on a hate crime.

    I'm all for anything that deters crime but I'm bothered by the idea that somehow, certain groups of people can become "hands off" but these folks over here, yeah you can do whatever you want to them.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    but don't judges already have it within their authority to add to a penalty?

    What's more, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a judge determining what is and isn't a "hate crime." All too often just because someone is black or gay and are a victim of a crime, the system immediately wants to try the perp on a hate crime.

    I'm all for anything that deters crime but I'm bothered by the idea that somehow, certain groups of people can become "hands off" but these folks over here, yeah you can do whatever you want to them.
    I'm honestly not sure what the process is in the states. I know up here that we've had Hate Laws on the books for a while. I guess I'm just really comfortable with increasing the penalty on criminals, particuarly those who feel the need to assaullt people for no other reason then the colour of their skin. People like that don't belong in a civilized society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I'm honestly not sure what the process is in the states. I know up here that we've had Hate Laws on the books for a while. I guess I'm just really comfortable with increasing the penalty on criminals, particuarly those who feel the need to assaullt people for no other reason then the colour of their skin. People like that don't belong in a civilized society.
    I absolutely agree on increasing penalties on criminals. However, is someone who assaults a person based on the colour of their skin or who they bed down with or their religion really all that much more evil than someone who assaults a person based on that person's bank account balance, how nice their car is or just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
    Stay out of it, dude.


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    I'm not piping in on the subject, but I'd like to offer Kudos to Broken and Mike for being on opposites sides of this issue, stating their opinions and arguments and NOT having the debate devolve into name calling and personal insults.

    Can civility and the Internet truly coexist? Here's proof, folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by te5150 View Post
    I'm not piping in on the subject, but I'd like to offer Kudos to Broken and Mike for being on opposites sides of this issue, stating their opinions and arguments and NOT having the debate devolve into name calling and personal insults.

    Can civility and the Internet truly coexist? Here's proof, folks.
    thanks dude. I think we all know Broken is an idiot - no need for me to state that again.

    On Broken's point, I think there is a big difference between me and someone getting in a fight and being charged with assault. And me starting a fight specifically because of someone's religion/colour/sexual orientation. In the first assualt we might be dealing to guys who had a bad day. In the second we're dealing with someone who should not be walking among us. You have a right to hate whoever you want, but society should not allow any group to have to live in fear of people who want to hurt them beacuse of their religion, sex, etc. These people don't deserve to walk on the same ground as the rest of us. I have no time for the KKK, and the Black Panthers, and these types of groups. They're losers and I have no problem with them getting special treatment under the law.

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    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by te5150 View Post
    I'm not piping in on the subject, but I'd like to offer Kudos to Broken and Mike for being on opposites sides of this issue, stating their opinions and arguments and NOT having the debate devolve into name calling and personal insults.

    Indeed. 'tis nice to see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    Do we need hate crime legislation?
    Yet, I do not support the idea of a "hate crime."

    Why is beating someone up because they're jewish or gay or black any worse than beating someone up because they are rich or are taller or live in a nicer area of town or were dressed in a manner that someone found intolerable?
    You are correct... A crime is a crime... Race, gender, sexual orientation, etc etc should not have any relation to the severity of the sentence handed down...

    It's just another "label" spoon-fed to us by politicians with close voter ties to any movement closely associated to any specific races, genders, sexual orientations etc etc, to advance their own agendas...
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. -- Gen. George S. Patton

 

 

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