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  1. #1
    Eruption
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    Default Anyone tried to guess which songs Mike played on on III? And other albums?

    Dave states they were recording Mike's bass parts for him (or Eddie was, at least) as early as Fair Warning. So that album at the least has parts recorded over by Eddie, and the way Dave said it made it sound like that wasn't a one off, so one can assume either Diver Down or 1984 it happened too. And then on III he recorded parts for only three songs - and we don't even know if he played all of the bass parts on those songs.

    This'll be an interesting test for all the "Mike's playing was a vital part of the Van Halen sound" - spot the songs that have his distinctive play on and which do not.

    I know that in the Roth days Mike was said by the VH brothers to be someone who supported Roth a lot, and I know he was on terrible terms with them on the 1984 Tour. And given what a sympathetic soul Sammy has always been towards Mike, and how Mike genuinely appears happy on some interviews in that era...I'd hazard a guess that Sammy's influence which kept him in the band also meant Mike was present on all of the songs in that era. Mike seemed pretty miserable by Balance, but that's probably more due to general band relationships then. To market the "classic line-up" thing, my guess would be that Mike plays on both BOV1 songs too. The other thing that makes me think Mike was probably on all or most Sammy stuff is that if he was being treated terribly then, I can see Sammy asking Mike to play on his solo album in 1987 not Eddie to make him feel better....given that album was one Eddie co-produced and wasn't gonna get upset about Hagar doing since it was part of his contract when he joined Van Halen in 1985 to get him away from his old label. But 1981-1984 and 1995-1998? What do you think?

    I'm not slagging Mike off, not saying his playing isn't distinctive. Just curious as to what discussion this might spark off.
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  2. #2
    Unchained GRCITY's Avatar
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    That's interesting because if infact Mike's baselines were being played by Eddie way back then, if I'm correct Mike was still getting 25% of the pay. Not bad for not playing base parts on the albums.
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    06.14.17 @ 06:46 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Elfoid_TFS View Post

    I'm not slagging Mike off, not saying his playing isn't distinctive. Just curious as to what discussion this might spark off.
    Nothing good.

  4. #4
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCITY View Post
    That's interesting because if infact Mike's baselines were being played by Eddie way back then, if I'm correct Mike was still getting 25% of the pay. Not bad for not playing base parts on the albums.
    Yeah, while it seems on the one hand like he got a bum deal, I'd love it! For III, he coulda spent several months in bed and woken up with a paycheck for the near to a million copies I'd guess VHIII has sold worldwide.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCITY View Post
    That's interesting because if infact Mike's baselines were being played by Eddie way back then, if I'm correct Mike was still getting 25% of the pay. Not bad for not playing base parts on the albums.
    According to Sam, Mike always received less money than the others. I'm not sure if that related to just touring or all things in general, but it wouldn't surprise me if Mike was getting less than 25%.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    One more time.

    Dave doesn't remember jack shit about the old days, you can't take what he says as verbatim. He can't even recall if he ever played Dirty Movies live, much less what happened in the studio before or after laying down his vocal tracks. That's what cocaine and whiskey will do to ya.

    Mike played his bass parts on every song ever recorded by VH except for several on III and the 3 BOBW tracks.

    That's the official word for word statement from those in the know.

    Last edited by Van Squalen; 05.28.09 at 12:21 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menlow View Post
    According to Sam, Mike always received less money than the others. I'm not sure if that related to just touring or all things in general, but it wouldn't surprise me if Mike was getting less than 25%.
    I imagine any covers of the songs, any sales of singles etc, money woulda been equal split since that's based on songwriting credits. But touring, merch, CaboWabo (initially owned by Van Halen as a band, not just Sammy), maybe even album sales wouldn't have been shared.

    Interesting note on songwriting credits....because it was credited between all 4 members, every time someone buys a copy of "Eruption" on iTunes, would that mean Dave, Mike and Alex would get money too? Cuz all that stuff is listed as shared by the band.

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    One more time.

    Mike played his bass parts on every song ever recorded by VH except for several on III and the 3 BOBW tracks.

    That's the official word for word statement from those in the know.

    Well discuss III then.

    And Dave said "as early as 1981" Mike's stuff was being recorded over, and he said it fairly casually like it was something that wasn't just a one-off. And it's a claim no one has said is untrue, including Mike himself. You might say Dave lies, but he's in the know since he was there, in the band, in the studio, at that point. And as it's all he's said on the matter, it's his 'official' line.

    The VH brothers seemed to edit most of RHRN together by themselves, I'd not be shocked to find out Eddie did bass overdubs on that.
    Last edited by The Elfoid_TFS; 05.28.09 at 12:23 PM.
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Elfoid_TFS View Post


    Well discuss III then.

    And Dave said "as early as 1981" Mike's stuff was being recorded over, and he said it fairly casually like it was something that wasn't just a one-off. And it's a claim no one has said is untrue, including Mike himself. You might say Dave lies, but he's in the know since he was there, in the band, in the studio, at that point. And as it's all he's said on the matter, it's his 'official' line.
    No. Mike has refuted that claim point blank. Ed has NEVER said he played Mike's bass parts prior to III (though he's offered snide comments about Mike's ability, granted). Dave is no reliable source of VH history...he was wasted more than Eddie was back then. And what Dave says THESE days is entirely suspect, given he's an employee of Van Halen Inc. and little more now. It's stupid to toss in RHRN as an example, that was a patchwork package not worthy of the costs associated with its creation, and we all know Ed and his engineers tweaked the sound on it, including the vox and his own leads, much less any deep end boosting.

    If you really want to determine the truths behind closed doors, I suggest you pay attention to the guys with the least to lose, who've been most maligned by Ed, and who most exhibit public integrity on the whole when confronted with problematic questioning...and that would be Sam, Mike, and several producers over the years.

    Not Dave, Ed, and Alex, LOL. Of course the guys who are the pricks aren't gonna fess up to being pricks.

    And I have no idea which tracks Mike played on III and which he didn't, though I think Brett knows, or had an idea of which ones were which. If memory serves, I believe it was Without You (for the single), Josephina, and maybe One I Want or Fire in the Hole, but I just don't recall to be sure.

  9. #9
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    12.09.17 @ 07:25 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    One more time.

    Dave doesn't remember jack shit about the old days, you can't take what he says as verbatim. He can't even recall if he ever played Dirty Movies live, much less what happened in the studio before or after laying down his vocal tracks. That's what cocaine and whiskey will do to ya.

    Mike played his bass parts on every song ever recorded by VH except for several on III and the 3 BOBW tracks.

    That's the official word for word statement from those in the know.

    It's a good point. I remember watching Dave on Howard Stern back in the 90s and Stern brought up Dave's famous line "I like the way the line runs up the back of the stockings" and I was shocked that Dave didn't even know it was from the song Everbody Wants Some.
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  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    He has plenty of inaccuracies about his own catalog as well in his book.

    I don't think Dave is a "details guy".

    I have read Dave admit that they were looking for a new bass player back then, but I have never read or heard Dave say that Ed was recording the bass parts starting with Fair Warning, and even if he did, I would say he is wrong.

    Mike says that he didn't play on much of VHIII, and I think of any of these guys, I will take what Mike says. I believe he played on everything up to VHIII no matter what Dave says.
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  11. #11
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    At one point there was a list floating around here that went track by track with what people thought was the breakdown of what Ed played and what Al and Mike played.

    Here's the thing, when the record came out I didn't think "man, that's not Mike playing!" or "Man, that's not Al playing!!"

    What led any of you to think they weren't...or was it that comment Mike made about not playing much on the record that brought your attention to it?
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    No. Mike has refuted that claim point blank. Ed has NEVER said he played Mike's bass parts prior to III (though he's offered snide comments about Mike's ability, granted). Dave is no reliable source of VH history...he was wasted more than Eddie was back then. And what Dave says THESE days is entirely suspect, given he's an employee of Van Halen Inc. and little more now. It's stupid to toss in RHRN as an example, that was a patchwork package not worthy of the costs associated with its creation, and we all know Ed and his engineers tweaked the sound on it, including the vox and his own leads, much less any deep end boosting.
    Dave was neither in Van Halen nor was he wasted when he made this statement. It was a totally legitimate interview. It woulda been just after Mike gave that Japanese interview, it was before any significant renewed dialogue between VH and DLR was being made, to our knowledge. Though I'm sure their management have never been totally out of touch with each other. Since Dave rejoined VH he's not said anything about Mike really, so I doubt the statement was to get on "Eddie's side" of the argument, and if he said it clearly and confidently he was probably not struggling to remember it through a drunken haze; "Eddie recorded Mike's bass" is not the kind of odd thing you'd mis-remember is it?

    Can you find me a quote saying Mike did play his bass parts back in the day? Ideally one since he stopped being "an employee of Van Halen Inc." and could be trusted. I might be wrong but I can't recall anyone ever asking him about that so haven't heard him defend it.

    If you really want to determine the truths behind closed doors, I suggest you pay attention to the guys with the least to lose, who've been most maligned by Ed, and who most exhibit public integrity on the whole when confronted with problematic questioning...and that would be Sam, Mike, and several producers over the years.
    Sam's never said what Mike played on, and no one's interview VH producers about Mike's role in VH since Mike was removed from the band that I've noticed. Mike himself, like I said, go find out that source for me if it exists.

    Not Dave, Ed, and Alex, LOL. Of course the guys who are the pricks aren't gonna fess up to being pricks
    Well you said guys in the know. Whether they're pricks or not, they know. Plus Dave hasn't a history of bullshit besides the reason he left Van Halen. And that's a personal interpretation of events - everyone blames the other guy in the argument, no one takes the blame. Who played bass? You can't bend that, you state the truth or you outright lie and Dave's rarely been accused of that.

    And I have no idea which tracks Mike played on III and which he didn't, though I think Brett knows, or had an idea of which ones were which. If memory serves, I believe it was Without You (for the single), Josephina, and maybe One I Want or Fire in the Hole, but I just don't recall to be sure.
    "Without You" would make sense cuz he's in the video I guess. The playing would have to match his movements.

    Here's the thing, when the record came out I didn't think "man, that's not Mike playing!" or "Man, that's not Al playing!!"

    What led any of you to think they weren't...or was it that comment Mike made about not playing much on the record that brought your attention to it?
    I think the songs could definitely sound a lot LESS like Mike and Alex than they do. You can tell they're from similar schools of musical thought to the musicians they're meant to sound like. I've heard III enough times to know the songs but I must admit I'm no expert on the album with intimate knowledge of every fragment of sound. I started the thread because I thought it'd form a healthy discussion and it's a topic I don't know too much about. The different I noticed with drums was their production, they didn't sound like Alex's drums do even if the playing was a little like it.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    You lost all cred with the 'Dave hasn't a history of bullshit' assertion.

    Sure, I could do your work for you and find where Mike specifically answered the query of whether he played bass on the albums or not. But I'm not going to unless you pay me. Do your own research if you're so motivated to discredit the obvious. I know he answered it somewhere, unnecessarily, in some interview, maybe with the VHND, maybe with someone else. I don't recall. But I don't have to. I've been told by people in the know.

    Sad that you're so inclined to believe such bullshit. You've never met Mike, so you're one of the sheep who think people gotta take sides and you think 'well, if Dave and Ed are capable of being pricks, so is Mike.' But you're wrong. Mike's actually a good guy...and yeah, I do know this personally.

    Sorry to pop another bubble, but yes, it's true...Ed's a dick.

    Even were I not privy to folk in the know...I'd have figured that out myself with the evidence at hand. The fact some of you can't, is kinda...laughable.

  14. #14
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    12.10.17 @ 08:06 AM
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    I don't really give a fuck what the hell Mike played; point is he always played live and his background vocals were essential to any version of VH. I do think he played right up until 3, do you think Sammy would join a band and make the observation that "hey, the bass player doesn't get his parts recorded!" and stick around through that weird bull-shit?

    And I agree with VS, I'm not privy to anyone in the know but the evidence states the obvious. I want Ed to be healthy, happy, and productive, and I love the music he's made, but he's still a fucking asshole these days if not years earlier.

    And again as much as I love DLR and all he's done, he's a fucking nutbar and talks out his ass just to get a headline, so I take all that with a grain of salt just the same.
    Last edited by Ain't Talkin' Bout' Love; 05.28.09 at 07:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    One more time.

    Dave doesn't remember jack shit about the old days, you can't take what he says as verbatim. He can't even recall if he ever played Dirty Movies live, much less what happened in the studio before or after laying down his vocal tracks. That's what cocaine and whiskey will do to ya.

    Mike played his bass parts on every song ever recorded by VH except for several on III and the 3 BOBW tracks.

    That's the official word for word statement from those in the know.

    Yes. Also, yes.

    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    Mike played his bass parts on every song ever recorded by VH except for several on III and the 3 BOBW tracks.
    Yes. True. Correct. Spot on. Exactly.

    And the agreement made when Sammy joined the band was 30/30/30/10 (Sammy/Eddie/Alex/Mike). Sammy mostly thought this was bunk since Al was contributing no more to the writing or recording processes than Mike; he thought it should be 30/30/20/20.

    Mike played bass on everything except most of the tracks on III and the three songs on BOBW.

    Mike was the bass player in VH and played bass on all their recordings until III. Yes, it has been revealed that along the way some in the VH camp were disenchanted with Mike and considered replacing him on several occasions (all of those occasions, it seems, with the same player--Billy Sheehan). But at no time was Mike replaced in the studio by anyone with or not with Van Halen.

    On all of Van Halen's studio albums with both Roth and Hagar fronting, Mike played bass. It was only until the Cherone-fronted III that Mike's studio contributions were limited.

    Do I need to keep finding ways to say it, or is this enough times to make it clear?

 

 

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