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  1. #1
    Good Enough The J Man's Avatar
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    06.13.16 @ 04:44 PM
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    Default North Korea Conducts Nuclear Test

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090525/..._nuclear/print

    SEOUL, South Korea North Korea says it has successfully conducted a nuclear test.

    The country's official Korean Central News Agency reported that the test was carried out Monday.

    Lee Dong-kwan, a spokesman for the South Korean president, says that a nuclear test may have been carried out in the North.

    President Lee Myung-bak has called an emergency security session.

    ...Not much info now but still, this is big stuff.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Yeah I was just reading about that @ foxnews. Crazy fuckers.

    Led me to this related warm and fuzzy story.

    Experts: North Korea a Fully Fledged Nuclear Power:

    The world’s intelligence agencies and defense experts are quietly acknowledging that North Korea has become a fully fledged nuclear power with the capacity to wipe out entire cities in Japan and South Korea, the Times of London reported.

    The new reality has emerged
    in off-hand remarks and in single sentences buried in lengthy reports. Increasing numbers of authoritative experts — from the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to the U.S. Defense Secretary — are admitting that North Korea has miniaturized nuclear warheads to the extent that they can be launched on medium-range missiles, according to intelligence briefings.

    This puts it ahead of Iran in the race for nuclear attack capability and seriously alters the balance of power between North Korea’s large but poorly equipped military and the South Korean and U.S. forces ranged against it. “North Korea has nuclear weapons, which is a matter of fact,” the head of the IAEA, Mohamed ElBaradei, said this week. “I don’t like to accept any country as a nuclear weapon state we have to face reality.”

    North Korea carried out an underground nuclear test in 2006 (and today) but until recently foreign governments believed that such nuclear devices were useless as weapons because they were too unwieldy to be mounted on a missile.

    With 13,000 artillery pieces buried close to the border between the two Koreas, and chemical and biological warheads, it was always understood that the North could inflict significant conventional damage on Seoul, the South Korean capital. Military planners had calculated, however, that it could not strike outside the peninsula.

    Now North Korea’s supreme leader, Kim Jong Il, has the potential to kill millions in Japan as well as the South, and to lay waste U.S. bases and airfields in both countries. It will force military strategists to rethink plans for war in Korea and significantly increase the potential costs of any intervention in a future Korean war. The shift from acknowledging North Korea’s nuclear weapons development program to recognizing it as a fully fledged nuclear power is highly controversial. South Korea, in particular, resists the reclassification because it could give the North greater leverage in negotiations.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517698,00.html

    Last edited by Wruff_ajax; 05.24.09 at 10:11 PM.
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  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 09:41 AM
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    Strange, because I thought that North Korea had already been deemed a nuclear weapons power. Whatever..

    But when it comes to countries actually using nukes, I am far more worried about Israel taking out Iran's facilities, and the ensuing mess that would give us, than NK firing on the South or Japan.

    Kim may be an evil bastard (just a cursory look at what he has done to his own people is testament to that) but I don't believe he is actually crazy. NK does not hold the geo-pollitical importance of so many other hot spots, and should he for some unfathomable reason ever decide to use one of his missiles I seriously doubt that he would get any backing from either Russia or China.

    He's a sabre rattler at best, quite possibly prompted by China on some level, but his five (?) warheads would not even get launched before their sites were turned into glass. Articles like this, with some pretty shoddy journalism it must be said, are "boogy-man articles".

    Sleep with lights on kiddies...
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    well...we've had nukes since wwii. I can't begrudge other countries for wanting the same.

    I understand the whole "we must work to ensure that other countries are not allowed to develop nuclear capabilities" thing the US does but it is simply unrealistic.

    I imagine that the same concern and fear many lived with knowing that Russia had the nuke and of the prospect of a country like Korea getting one, is the same type of concern and fear that other countries have had about us for a very long time.

    What makes us so special? What makes us so perfectly capable of using nuclear weaponry for "good" and only when justified?

    In a perfect world we'd be using all our nifty nuclear capabilities to run power grids instead of as a threat that says "look bitches...we dropped these things twice already, don't think we won't do it again."

    I don't think anyone will detonate a nuclear weapon anytime soon...simply too many floating out there and too great a risk of killing themselves in the process of doing so.

    I think nuclear capabilities are the bling of government. You gotta have a nuclear weapon or you're a sissy...but, if you're rolling with the 24" rims, the LCD flat panels in the head rest and the nuclear missle, well, you're balling bitch!
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 11:32 PM
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    Eventually the cow will get out of the barn. Everyone who worked on the Manhattan Project knew it too. To think the bomb will never be used again with all the ancient blood and land feuds we have on earth would be rather naive. Mutual self destruction only applies to superpowers.
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

  6. #6
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    No one has the nuts to launch one. The international backlash and retaliation by many countries would be beyond catastrophic. The one thing that would keep Iran honest is the Ayatollah, he seems have a level head and keep that other prick in check. Another war of the worlds would most likely be the end of civilization as we know it and no one wants that, except him:

    Last edited by fudd; 05.25.09 at 06:07 AM.

  7. #7
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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  8. #8
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    07.22.09 @ 11:11 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuddman5150 View Post
    No one has the nuts to launch one. The international backlash and retaliation by many countries would be beyond catastrophic. The one thing that would keep Iran honest is the Ayatollah, he seems have a level head and keep that other prick in check. Another war of the worlds would most likely be the end of civilization as we know it and no one wants that, except him:

    You're thinking rationally, which may or may not apply to some of these countries that now have (or will soon have) nuclear capabilities. In some cultures it's actually an upgrade to die due to the perceived benefits of the afterlife. That's why I have always worried about some of the Islamic cultures more than secular ones like the old Soviet Union. So, your basic point is a fair one but I'm leery of generalizing it to the entire planet.

    For example, if Pakistan's government falls, are we all so sure that a faction of religious psychopaths wouldn't get access to or control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and threaten to use it in a destructive way? How about Iran at some point? At the very least, the West would be in an unenviable position of being subject to blackmail and having to acquiesce to various demands by those countries. North Korea is slightly less of a concern because they are secular and treat Kim Jong-Il like their God, but they will certainly use their nuclear capabilities as a bargaining tool now.

    I certainly don't have all the answers to this problem, but I fear the U.S. and the rest of the West has left itself susceptible to a horrific outcome in the future. I do think that it's still a remote possibility that a nuclear attack will take place on the part of any country for the reasons that you mentioned in your post, but I certainly do not think that it is as remote as it was in the past.
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  9. #9
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delighted Romeo View Post
    You're thinking rationally, which may or may not apply to some of these countries that now have (or will soon have) nuclear capabilities. In some cultures it's actually an upgrade to die due to the perceived benefits of the afterlife. That's why I have always worried about some of the Islamic cultures more than secular ones like the old Soviet Union. So, your basic point is a fair one but I'm leery of generalizing it to the entire planet.

    For example, if Pakistan's government falls, are we all so sure that a faction of religious psychopaths wouldn't get access to or control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and threaten to use it in a destructive way? How about Iran at some point? At the very least, the West would be in an unenviable position of being subject to blackmail and having to acquiesce to various demands by those countries. North Korea is slightly less of a concern because they are secular and treat Kim Jong-Il like their God, but they will certainly use their nuclear capabilities as a bargaining tool now.

    I certainly don't have all the answers to this problem, but I fear the U.S. and the rest of the West has left itself susceptible to a horrific outcome in the future. I do think that it's still a remote possibility that a nuclear attack will take place on the part of any country for the reasons that you mentioned in your post, but I certainly do not think that it is as remote as it was in the past.
    I follow your logic however there are too many world powers that their interests are for this not to happen and will make sure that they know that. With all the major superpowers having these, no launch will go up without retaliation and for a lack of words obliterate the launcher.

  10. #10
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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  11. #11
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    07.22.09 @ 11:11 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuddman5150 View Post
    I follow your logic however there are too many world powers that their interests are for this not to happen and will make sure that they know that. With all the major superpowers having these, no launch will go up without retaliation and for a lack of words obliterate the launcher.
    I agree, but what if the leadership of the launcher doesn't care? The leadership of a state like Iran or Pakistan if the extremists gain full power could see obliteration as some sort of religious honor, especially if it happens in response to them destroying Israel. There are a bunch of variables that impact this situation, but the world is in a more perilous situation now than we have ever been before for the reasons I mentioned earlier. We now have terrorist-supporting states with nuclear capabilities. As I said, I still think it's remote, as Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for some time without incident (though there have been some dicey moments between tham and India), but I also think the threat is more real than at any other time previously.
    "Seems the old folks who come up short were the pretty little kids who didn't want it, no." - Van Halen (1979)

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  12. #12
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delighted Romeo View Post
    I agree, but what if the leadership of the launcher doesn't care? The leadership of a state like Iran or Pakistan if the extremists gain full power could see obliteration as some sort of religious honor, especially if it happens in response to them destroying Israel. There are a bunch of variables that impact this situation, but the world is in a more perilous situation now than we have ever been before for the reasons I mentioned earlier. We now have terrorist-supporting states with nuclear capabilities. As I said, I still think it's remote, as Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for some time without incident (though there have been some dicey moments between tham and India), but I also think the threat is more real than at any other time previously.
    That could be the only viable option I see a launch taking place. If Pakistan falls it will be a wet dream for a terrorist sect. As for Isreal, I see someone else being the antagonist in this, Isreal isn't going to pick a fight and have a holy war. But they will defend themselves and rightfully so.

  13. #13
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 11:35 PM
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    I don't think even islamist would want to obliterate their own country, end their civilization and provoke the total genocide of their own people. I don't see any current leaders on earth wanting this.

    Even for 72 virgins.
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    07.22.09 @ 11:11 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    I don't think even islamist would want to obliterate their own country, end their civilization and provoke the total genocide of their own people. I don't see any current leaders on earth wanting this.

    Even for 72 virgins.
    Probably not, but some of them (e.g., Iran's Ahmadinejad) certainly want to enhance their bargaining position but making the rest of the world think they might do something like that. That's not good either. However, that's only talking about the formal leadership of nation-states, which brings with it various restrictions on behavior that you referenced.

    But how about terrorist organizations (al-Qaeda) and other extremist religious groups (The Taliban) that aren't aligned with one specific nation-state? They operate under a different set of rules and often have no qualms about "sacrificing" themselves or fellow jihadists for the "greater good." As I wrote earlier, I think it's still a remote possibility due to these organizations still currently lacking the motivation AND opportunity to pull off a nuclear attack. But what's currently happening in a so-called "nuclear weapon state" like Pakistan, which is extremely unstable right now, should be cause for some concern, as it would provide the access to nuclear technology and the improved opportunity to use that has been lacking previously. I also don't like us trusting leaders like Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong-Il not to at least share some of the know-how with these extremist organizations. It is highly unlikely that they would do it intentionally for the reasons you mentioned, but how about unintentionally through the actions of some of their rogue scientists? After all, Pakistan's A.Q. Khan did just that and he is probably a key reason why North Korea and Iran have or will soon have nuclear weapons capabilities.
    "Seems the old folks who come up short were the pretty little kids who didn't want it, no." - Van Halen (1979)

    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall." - Confucius

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