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  1. #1
    On Fire Eddie's Littler Monster's Avatar
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    07.14.17 @ 10:27 AM
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    Default Fender Loses Trademark Battle


  2. #2
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 02:42 PM
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    Hmmm...VERY interesting.

    I'll have to think on this one before I make a call.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    "20 minutes (late to work)? Shit. Last year I woke up three weeks too late.
    My advice is to go for the alien abduction story. Look bemused, dishevelled and on the verge of tears as you recount your story of intrusive and degrading medical tests.
    Worked for me anyway. I still have colleagues asking me what it is like to fuck a green womanoid with seventeen breasts.
    Alternatively just walk in and inform everyone that alcoholism is indeed a disease and that they should be less judgemental and perhaps a little more supportive."
    - graeme on the addiction to this place.

    "something tells me that after the nuclear holocaust, there'll be twinkies, cockroaches, and a dave vs. sammy argument going on somewhere".
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    "in my best "saw" scary movie voice: "oh, yes, there will be beagles."
    - hatchetforce, 6.7.06

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Those body styles will always belong to Fender. People can copy them all they want but they will always be the strat-body and the tele-body.

    Thousands upon thousands of people have stolen the shape and made their mods and slapped a different name on the headstock for years and years and will continue to do so forever but the fact remains, there's only one Fender.

    I've always found it a bit ironic that many of those that love to bag on the big bad evil corporation the most are the ones that are most guilty of taking Fender's designs and building upon them. If they were such a terrible company, one would think that others would stay as far away from any comparisons as possible.

    I don't have a problem with independant luthiers, in fact, I have mad respect for anyone that can build a guitar from scratch. What I have a problem with is the self-righteousness that many of them seem to have. The ire they carry with them, the chip on the shoulder and the sense of entitlement...like they have some right to use other people's intellectual property. Thankfully, not all luthiers are like this.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  4. #4
    Eruption bjk's Avatar
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    Kind of interesting due to the fact thar Gibson won a similar suit several years back on body shape trademarks. Companies like ESP were making pretty much exact replicas of Explorers and Les Pauls and selling lots of them. They've had to alter the shapes of those models since. I guess if you're Fender, at least you have the headstocks trademarked and that's how people will recognize it's a genuine Fender. I know they're pretty much a conglomorate (sp?) company but I understand them trying to protect their designs.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    Those body styles will always belong to Fender. People can copy them all they want but they will always be the strat-body and the tele-body.
    Which begs the question, doesn't Fender own the PATENTS on the design?
    That's where I'm confused.
    Why are they approching this from a TRADEMARK point-of-view?

    Things that make ya go "hmmmm...."



    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    "20 minutes (late to work)? Shit. Last year I woke up three weeks too late.
    My advice is to go for the alien abduction story. Look bemused, dishevelled and on the verge of tears as you recount your story of intrusive and degrading medical tests.
    Worked for me anyway. I still have colleagues asking me what it is like to fuck a green womanoid with seventeen breasts.
    Alternatively just walk in and inform everyone that alcoholism is indeed a disease and that they should be less judgemental and perhaps a little more supportive."
    - graeme on the addiction to this place.

    "something tells me that after the nuclear holocaust, there'll be twinkies, cockroaches, and a dave vs. sammy argument going on somewhere".
    - han valen, 6.11.04

    "in my best "saw" scary movie voice: "oh, yes, there will be beagles."
    - hatchetforce, 6.7.06

  6. #6
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    04.20.10 @ 03:48 AM
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    I agree..the Strat and telel belong to Fender..and SG, LP and explorer and maybe even flying V to Gibson, you can copy them..but you'll never be a fender.

    Look at the used market for the G&L stuff. highly price when buying new, but you loose on average 4o to 45% of value when selling, never on a real strat, US at least.

  7. #7
    On Fire Eddie's Littler Monster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjk View Post
    Kind of interesting due to the fact thar Gibson won a similar suit several years back on body shape trademarks. Companies like ESP were making pretty much exact replicas of Explorers and Les Pauls and selling lots of them. They've had to alter the shapes of those models since. I guess if you're Fender, at least you have the headstocks trademarked and that's how people will recognize it's a genuine Fender. I know they're pretty much a conglomorate (sp?) company but I understand them trying to protect their designs.
    Yes but they lost the case to PRS with their single cut model. So who knows.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    I think that whoever first made something should have the trademark/patent on the design. Period. Fender was first on the scene with those headstocks and those bodies. Everyone else can come up with their own idea, just like Fender did. Wanna make a fender style body? Ok...tweek it a little. Make the horns a little different, give it a different slope on the butt, whatever.

    I don't understand how they lost this decision other than the courts wanted to side with the mass of small guitar builders and that bit about costing the country thousands of jobs somehow resonated with them.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  9. #9
    Eruption bjk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie's Littler Monster View Post
    Yes but they lost the case to PRS with their single cut model. So who knows.
    If I'm not mistaken the PRS single cuts look kind of similar to a Les Paul, but they're not an exact copy. There were some companies that were producing what was more or less a clone of the Gibson models. I don't envy a company who's trying to come up with an origional guitar that doesn't copy something. I'm sure there are some very high quality guitars out there, but a lot of them just kind of look generic next to the Fender/Gibson classic designs. I mean, I love my Wolfgangs, but I play my hot rodded Strats more, mostly because they look cooler and feel more "authentic".

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    The Les Paul vs PRS Singlecut thing was dicey at best. Just because the Les Paul is the quintessential single cut mahogany/maple guitar doesn't mean they should be the ONLY single cut mahogany/maple guitar in the world.

    But in the case where companies like Fender, Ernie Ball, Gibson and other traditional, longstanding manufacturers are having their copies blatantly ripped off by overseas manufacturers or "independant" luthiers here in the states, I think they should be protected and have every right to seek legal remedies.

    No one can come out with a cola that tastes exactly like Coke. They have to come up with their own recipe.

    No one can come out with a car that is exactly like the Toyota Camry. They have to come up with their own body style.

    No one should be able to make a guitar exactly like the Strat. They too should have to come up with their own body style.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    The Les Paul vs PRS Singlecut thing was dicey at best. Just because the Les Paul is the quintessential single cut mahogany/maple guitar doesn't mean they should be the ONLY single cut mahogany/maple guitar in the world.

    But in the case where companies like Fender, Ernie Ball, Gibson and other traditional, longstanding manufacturers are having their copies blatantly ripped off by overseas manufacturers or "independant" luthiers here in the states, I think they should be protected and have every right to seek legal remedies.

    No one can come out with a cola that tastes exactly like Coke. They have to come up with their own recipe.

    No one can come out with a car that is exactly like the Toyota Camry. They have to come up with their own body style.

    No one should be able to make a guitar exactly like the Strat. They too should have to come up with their own body style.
    Which is why I'm CONFOUNDED as to WHY ON EARTH is Fender pursuing this issue as a TRADEMARK thing, as opposed to a PATENT thing?!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    "20 minutes (late to work)? Shit. Last year I woke up three weeks too late.
    My advice is to go for the alien abduction story. Look bemused, dishevelled and on the verge of tears as you recount your story of intrusive and degrading medical tests.
    Worked for me anyway. I still have colleagues asking me what it is like to fuck a green womanoid with seventeen breasts.
    Alternatively just walk in and inform everyone that alcoholism is indeed a disease and that they should be less judgemental and perhaps a little more supportive."
    - graeme on the addiction to this place.

    "something tells me that after the nuclear holocaust, there'll be twinkies, cockroaches, and a dave vs. sammy argument going on somewhere".
    - han valen, 6.11.04

    "in my best "saw" scary movie voice: "oh, yes, there will be beagles."
    - hatchetforce, 6.7.06

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixstring View Post
    Which is why I'm CONFOUNDED as to WHY ON EARTH is Fender pursuing this issue as a TRADEMARK thing, as opposed to a PATENT thing?!
    you know who might know? ScottFletcher. Isn't he the guy that got into a fight with Ernie Ball about their body shape and headstock? He seemed to have some first hand knowledge concerning patents/trademarks and how they pertain to guitars.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  13. #13
    Eruption bjk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixstring View Post
    Which is why I'm CONFOUNDED as to WHY ON EARTH is Fender pursuing this issue as a TRADEMARK thing, as opposed to a PATENT thing?!
    I couldn't tell you what the difference between a patent and a trademark in this case. Is it possible that Leo Fender owned the patent and Fender/CBS owned the trademark? Then how would that affect G&L, which is Leo Fender's company which makes "Fender" clones (with diferent headstocks)? Just throwin darts...

  14. #14
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    12.03.10 @ 03:16 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    Those body styles will always belong to Fender. People can copy them all they want but they will always be the strat-body and the tele-body.

    Thousands upon thousands of people have stolen the shape and made their mods and slapped a different name on the headstock for years and years and will continue to do so forever but the fact remains, there's only one Fender.

    I've always found it a bit ironic that many of those that love to bag on the big bad evil corporation the most are the ones that are most guilty of taking Fender's designs and building upon them. If they were such a terrible company, one would think that others would stay as far away from any comparisons as possible.

    I don't have a problem with independant luthiers, in fact, I have mad respect for anyone that can build a guitar from scratch. What I have a problem with is the self-righteousness that many of them seem to have. The ire they carry with them, the chip on the shoulder and the sense of entitlement...like they have some right to use other people's intellectual property. Thankfully, not all luthiers are like this.
    As an aside, it's like people that download music for free, and they complain the loudest that concerts, concert DVD's, and indeed a bands CD is too expensive. Well shake your head! They ar'ent making the money they used to selling CD's due to piracy. It's not like the old days with tapes.
    Yeah people recorded albums off their friends if they had 'em but now with just a few keystrokes you can get anything almost instantaniously. As far as Gibson and Fender are concerned, yes I do think they cost more than they should, but more due to quality, and the automation employed in the building of ther guitars. I think that between $1,500 to $1,700 is fair for a quality US built instrument in their current form of production. Time spent on fit and finish goes a long way, but some of the prices have well exceeded the $2,500 to almost $4.000 mark. That, I feel is obsured, but I also realize that it is in large part to the fact that we have been living in very "good" financial times. In these times people tend to get complascent, take credit, and job for granted, and often spend beyond their means without so much as a bat of an eye. Manufacturers respond accordingly. Why not?

    People have been paying the ever escalating prices. it's been gradual to some extent, but I can tell you that the difference between the last time I was in a music store before my hiatus and when I came back to the biz and i walked into a shop, I was speechless at how much the sticker price for a basic, Standard Fender or Gibson was. I can't imagine their going to be that way for much longer. One of the bigger Gibson/Fender dealers I go to is saying they just can't move them. They sell alot of ESP's/LTD's, Ibanez, and the Reverend lines, (and to their credit Epiphone and Squier) but the US manufacturers, have just been dying in the showrooms. I hope things change and their back on top again soon. Think it will be a while though. Summerizing, and back on topic, Fender must be trying everything in the book including this trademark issue in an attempt to get a large cash infusion and quick. But I totally agree that no matter what, a only a Fender is a Fender. I've played clones for years, but I always go back to my '68 for the real deal. Just something about 'em.
    Last edited by SLEEPER5150; 04.09.09 at 03:44 PM.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  15. #15
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    Sleeper...no factory fender is above the 2000$. when you go ABOVE the 2000$, you're talking Custom Shop instrument. not to be confused by the 2. And for the fact about your store not moving Fender or Gibson, you can't judge a buisness on one store, my local store is the exact opposite. they carries all gibsons and Fenders, from standard strat to high end CS models..and the never stay in the store..but that shitty ESP or Ibanez stuff....been sitting there for ages.

    Before every manufacturer decided to raise all the prices, Gibson and Fender are having record years in sales. The whole shredder guitar thing is not as popular as they were, when you start seeing metal bands using strats, even Teles, that tells a lot.

    But one thing is sure, they will raise their prices because they are loosing a LOT of buisness to ESP, and others like that that basicaly just copy fender or gibson
    Last edited by al3d; 04.09.09 at 04:01 PM.

 

 

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