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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Default 13 Killed in Shooting in New York

    Associated Press

    BINGHAMTON, N.Y. — The man who police say killed 13 people in a shooting rampage inside an immigrant community center was depressed and angry over losing his job and about his poor English skills, the Binghamton mayor and police said Saturday.

    Police Chief Joseph Zikuski told NBC's "Today" that people "degraded and disrespected" the gunman over his poor English. Mayor Matthew Ryan, speaking on ABC's "Good Morning America," said the man, believed to be 42-year-old Vietnamese immigrant Jiverly Voong, was angry about his language issues and his lack of employment.

    On Friday, he barricaded the American Civic Association community center's back door with his car, walked in the front and started shooting with two handguns. Within minutes, a receptionist, 12 immigrants taking a citizenship class and the gunman were dead. Another receptionist, who played dead after she was shot in the abdomen, called 911 to get police to the scene within two minutes.

    Zikuski said the injured receptionist stayed on the phone for 90 minutes, "feeding us information constantly," despite a serious wound in the abdomen.

    "She's a hero in her own right," he said.

    Four people were critically wounded in the Friday massacre, and 37 others made it out, including 26 who hid for hours in a basement boiler room while police tried to determine whether the gunman was still alive and whether he was holding any hostages, Zikuski said.

    Investigators said they had yet to establish a motive for the shooting, which was at least the fifth deadly mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month.

    The suspected killer carried ID with the name of 42-year-old Jiverly Voong, of nearby Johnson City, N.Y., but that was believed to be an alias, said a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

    The man was found dead in an office with a self-inflicted gunshot wound, a satchel containing ammunition slung around his neck, authorities said. Police found two handguns — a 9 mm and a .45-caliber — and a hunting knife.

    A second law enforcement official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the handguns were registered to Jiverly Wong, another name the man used. Both officials were not authorized to speak publicly.

    Initial reports suggested Voong had recently been let go from IBM. But a person at IBM said there was no record of a Jiverly Voong ever working there.

    "He had lost a job recently and was somewhat angry," Ryan told ABC. "He had language issues, didn't speak English that well, and was really concerned about his employment situation."

    The attack at the American Civic Association, which helps immigrants settle in this country, came just after 10 a.m.

    The gunman parked his car against the back door before barging through the front and opening fire, apparently without saying a word. He then entered a room just off the reception area and fired on a citizenship class while terrified people scrambled into a boiler room and a storage room.

    The center was filled with people from countries as far off as Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, all working to become more a part of their new home — learning English, taking a class to gain U.S. citizenship. The gunman may have walked a similar path to become an American decades ago.

    "I heard the shots, every shot. I heard no screams, just silence, shooting," said Zhanar Tokhtabayeva, a 30-year-old from Kazakhstan who was in an English class when her teacher screamed for everyone to go to the storage room. "I heard shooting, very long time, and I was thinking, when will this stop? I was thinking that my life was finished."

    Police arrived in minutes, heard no gunfire and waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers. They then spent two hours searching the building. They led a number of men out in plastic handcuffs while trying to sort out victims from the killer or killers.

    Gov. David Paterson said the massacre was probably "the worst tragedy and senseless crime in the history of this city." Noting mass killings in Alabama and Oakland, Calif., last month, he said: "When are we going to be able to curb the kind of violence that is so fraught and so rapid that we can't even keep track of the incidents?"

    The center was holding class "for those who want to become citizens of the United States of America, who wanted to be part of the American Dream, and so tragically may have had that hope thwarted today," the governor said. "But there still is an American dream, and all of us who are Americans will try to heal this very, very deep wound in the city of Binghamton."

    The police chief said the suspected gunman "was no stranger" to the community center and may have gone there to take a class. He said he had no idea what the shooter's motive was.

    A woman who answered the phone at a listing for Henry D. Voong said she was Jiverly Voong's sister but would not give her name. She said her brother had been in the country for 28 years and had citizenship.

    On Friday evening, police searched Voong's house and carried out three computer hard drives, a brown canvas rifle case, a briefcase, a small suitcase and several paper bags.

    Waiting outside a Catholic Charities office where counselors were tending to relatives of victims, Omri Yigal said his wife, Delores, was taking English lessons when the gunman attacked. He had no word on what happened to her.

    "They told me they don't have much hope for me," the Filipino immigrant said before going home to wait for a telephone call.

    Dr. Jeffrey King, speaking at the Catholic Charities office, said he was certain his mother, 72-year-old Roberta King, who taught English at the community center, was among the dead.

    Authorities read a list of survivors and his mother's name wasn't on it, he said.

    King, one of 10 children, described his mother as a woman brimming with interests ranging from the opera to the preservation society to collecting thousands of dolls. He recollected a recent conversation in which he told her to enjoy her retirement.

    "I said, 'Mom you're in your 70s,'" King said. "She said, 'What? You don't think I enjoy working?'"

    They were talking about taking a trip to the Jersey shore this summer.

    The shootings took place in a neighborhood of homes and small businesses in downtown Binghamton, a city of about 47,000 situated 140 miles northwest of New York City. The region was the home to Endicott-Johnson shoe company and the birthplace of IBM, which between them employed tens of thousands of workers before the shoe company closed a decade ago and IBM downsized in recent years.

    A string of attacks in the U.S. in the last month left 44 people dead in all.

    A gunman killed 10 people and himself in Samson, Ala.; shootings that began with a traffic stop in Oakland, Calif., left four police officers and the gunman dead; an apparent murder-suicide in Santa Clara, Calif., left six dead; and a gunman went on a rampage at a nursing home Sunday, killing seven elderly residents and a nurse who cared for them.


    My question would be is how does an immigrant with an alias actually get hand guns registered to him?

    I think it might be a good idea going forward that you need to be a US citizen to register a gun.

    I know some people will yell "slippery slope", but I just don't see any reason an immigrant should be able to legally own a gun.
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  2. #2
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    My brother-in-law is a detective in one of the communities there and I guess he had to interview some of the survivors.

    This whole thing will bring up the whole issue of guns again - some will say if he didn't have a gun, this couldn't have happened; others will say if someone else had had a gun, they could've stopped him. I say I just don't know.

    Not sure it makes any difference that he was an immigrant - lord knows there are enough born and bred U.S. citizens capable of carrying out this kind of mindless killing as well. Hell, how many people did Jim Jones kill with Kool-Aid? Mind you, it took a lot longer (the whole brainwashing, move to Guyana thing), but still, they're just as dead...

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:57 PM
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    If the gunman didn't have a gun, this wouldn't have happened: fact.


    If someone else there had a gun, if they had time to draw the gun before getting shot, if they had proper training, if they didn't panic under the stress of the situation, if they were lucky, then MAYBE they could hit the gunman and put him out of commission: speculation.

    One is fact, the other is speculation. And there's also the possibility that the "other person with a gun" would miss the gunman and wound someone else by accident.
    Last edited by Little Dreamer; 04.04.09 at 11:43 AM.
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Lodewijk's Avatar
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    Regardless of where you fall on the gun-control issue, I promise you one thing. Had I been in that building, 13 people wouldn't have died. I might of ended up being dead myself, but I wouldn't have had to hide and just wait for my turn to die. I'm not going out like that. At the very LEAST, I would have been able to incompasitate him before I died.

    If any of you think that playing possum is an acceptable form of self-defence, I pray you're never put in such a position.


    Unfortunately, we're going to see many more instances like this as our financial times get tougher. unemployment peaks, and the level of public frustration rises. People just aren't as satisfied with just killing themselves anymore, they want to take more innocents with them.

    But make no mistake, you can fall in line with the media, and blame the inanimate object all you want. But the problem lies in the hearts and minds of our current society.

    Would this tragedy be easier to take if this nut had run his car at top speed into a crowd of people, killing 13 ? Would it be easier to get a handle on it if he had went to his local hardware store and bought the materials needed to make a bomb, blowing up the entire building, killing everyone inside ?

    These problems lie in the question of WHY someone would do this, that is where we'll find our answer to lessening mass violence, our society as a whole, for some reason, has lost it's value of human life.


    Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Lodewijk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    If the gunman didn't have a gun, this wouldn't have happened: fact.

    Not fact.
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  6. #6
    Eruption ddzavis's Avatar
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    In 1983 a man in Wilkes-Barre named George Banks killed 15 people including his own children due to what he felt was that they would not be treated the right way. Mr. Banks was black and had mutiple children with white woman. He was former military and had worked for the agency I know work for. He used an AR-15 and was captured and is still on death row and been found mentally unable to function in society. I'm sure a mental evaluation of this indidviual will find a mental malfunction, unable to cope. Just sad for all involved, from the families , survivors and law enforcement that will have to relive this for the next 10 to 15 years.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lodewijk View Post
    Not fact.
    Why is that not a fact? I'm just curious.
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Lodewijk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic_punk View Post
    Why is that not a fact? I'm just curious.

    Because like I posted, he could just as easily been pissed off enough to drive a car through the front window of the place and killed 13 people. If he was motivated to kill large amounts of people., there are other ways to do it.

    The fact that he chose to use a gun for this massacre, doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened without one.
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  9. #9
    Hang 'Em High janthraxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lodewijk View Post

    Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
    Lode's right. Except actually it's people with mustaches that kill people.

    What an awful, sick tragedy.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lodewijk View Post
    Because like I posted, he could just as easily been pissed off enough to drive a car through the front window of the place and killed 13 people. If he was motivated to kill large amounts of people., there are other ways to do it.

    The fact that he chose to use a gun for this massacre, doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened without one.
    Yes, I agree. There's been a lot of discussion here in Finland about whether or not to make it harder for people to get guns and permits and whatnot, but I honestly think like you that it's not the guns that kill, it's the people who kill.
    I think a lot of people focus on blaming the guns cause it's the easy way, when they should be focusing on the well-being of our fellow people. If you want to kill someone, there is always a way to do it. The question is WHY do you want to kill people, and is there a way to help you before you get there?
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  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    As Lode knows...being Canadian and all I am not really a gun advocate. With that said this story has nothing to do with guns. Regardless of gun laws and registries etc. if someone wants to get there hands on a gun they can. This story is about a guy killing 13 people. As they say, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat and if this guy didn't use a gun he would have found another way.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Lodewijk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post

    Police arrived in minutes, heard no gunfire and waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers. They then spent two hours searching the building. They led a number of men out in plastic handcuffs while trying to sort out victims from the killer or killers.

    I don't want to talk shit about Police, as I respect them very much, and appreciate the job they do.

    However......... These are the men that are paid to protect the masses, they have the best equipment that tax-payer money can buy. Assault weaponry, Kevlar vests, steel plated shields...etc. And yet they still waited an HOUR before entering the building, even though they had inside information from the wounded receptionist linked to 911. It's only by the grace of God that we're not talking about 30 or 40 dead with that attitude.


    It's events like this that make me thankful for my right to carry, and make me wish that more people took advantage of their rights, or even better, considered it their responsibility to protect themselves. As it seems the police are worth nothing more than crime scene management after the fact.
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  13. #13
    Hang 'Em High janthraxx's Avatar
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    Hey Jake, send me money and I'll buy as many guns as you'll pay for!
    "Suck a fat one, faggot."
    -MikeL, showing off that sharp wit of his.

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    -Derrick Jensen, "What We Leave Behind"

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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk Lodewijk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janthraxx View Post
    Hey Jake, send me money and I'll buy as many guns as you'll pay for!



    LMAO.......If it would get more people to take advantage of their God-given rights, I might donate a few of mine to the cause.

    But alas, you live in Cali, where you're not permitted to protect yourself anyway.


    With that being said, why don't you take some of that money I'm sure you donate to "save the trees" or something, and drop $300 on a handgun for the home.
    Your self preservation HAS to be worth $300 to you ! Lay off that expensive health food and buy some regular burgers....you'll save it up in no time !
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  15. #15
    Hang 'Em High RRMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lodewijk View Post
    I don't want to talk shit about Police, as I respect them very much, and appreciate the job they do.

    However......... These are the men that are paid to protect the masses, they have the best equipment that tax-payer money can buy. Assault weaponry, Kevlar vests, steel plated shields...etc. And yet they still waited an HOUR before entering the building, even though they had inside information from the wounded receptionist linked to 911. It's only by the grace of God that we're not talking about 30 or 40 dead with that attitude.


    It's events like this that make me thankful for my right to carry, and make me wish that more people took advantage of their rights, or even better, considered it their responsibility to protect themselves. As it seems the police are worth nothing more than crime scene management after the fact.
    Lode...be careful on this one bro. You know my allegiance is ALWAYS with cops in this type of case.

    I'll tell you why they most likely waited. Remember Columbine?? They had teams put together of guys that never worked togehter before. It took them forever to do the search.

    In this case, it's more likely, than not, the ERT team members don't even work at the same time. Especially in a town the size of Binghamton. I've delivered to McClane Foods and frequent the Pilot & TA when I'm there too. It's also on the way to Walton, NY where we deliver and ship Kraft products. It's not a big city, nor does it have a large PD.

    The police department isn't large enough to have a full-time team. They have members on different shifts. I'm willing to bet that members of the sheriff's department are on the team too. There is also a State Police barracks just off the interstate, they may be involved too, I don't know.

    They have to call these people in. Then, the team has to:

    • Get to the scene
    • Assemble
    • Suit up
    • Ascertain the situation/get a briefing; i.e.: number of gunmen; number of potential victims; number of total people inside; rough internal layout, etc
    • Devise a plan, based on everyone's position/training. (this is dependent on the number of officers that show up, as some may be out of town or otherwise unavailable for whatever reason)
    • Secure the exterior firmly
    • Begin the operation methodically, cautiously and professionally


    The first officers on scene aren't training to do this type of sweep & clear. They know how to do them, but in this type of situation, they lack the body armor necessary to be of any use. Their best bet was to do what they did, secure the exterior and wait.

    The aim of every cop is to go home alive at the end of the night. And, contrary to popular belief, a cop has no official obligation to take a bullet for anybody. But, by personal conviction, they will.

    I was taught by my dad, brother and a multitude of other cops, that you can do everything by the book, each time, still save people, and go home. Or you can ignore the book, but only once.

    I know you savor and cherish your right to carry a concealed weapon. But, in a situation like this, you would cause more harm than good. Most likely getting taken out by the cops. All they'll see is a man with a gun. They don't know you from Adam. In the confusion of the mass killings, you would likely get confused as an accomplice by the victims.

    It's also likely that you would be a horrid shot in this situation. No matter how good you are on a target range. With your adrenaline pumping, your accuracy drops to below 40%. It's been proven time and again that even police officers and military men and women, who have extensive training, qualifications, etc. can calmly hit higher than 95%. But in a combat-stress type scenarios, that drops significantly.

    These cops, that were first on the scene, did the right thing in waiting until the specially trained officers got there.
    Last edited by RRMB; 04.04.09 at 04:16 PM.
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