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  1. #1
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    12.12.17 @ 03:37 PM
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    Default More Irving Azoff TM Bullshit

    I'm glad more and more in the entertainment press are drawing attention to Ticketmaster and some bands long standing internal scalping service which hopefully will have the effect of quashing the TM/Live Nation merger:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672740386088613.html

    There's a small Van Halen mention near the bottom of the article.

    T.B.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 04:57 PM
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    My problem isn't necessarily with the tickets being sold at a higher price, but at the deception. Neil Diamond should just price those seats where he wants and demand a higher cut.

    However, I have no problem with an artist selling tickets for what people will buy them. If an artist assigns a value to their ticket, say...$100, but they continuously resell for 3 times that, then really, the ticket is worth $300, not $100. But now the Artist is getting screwed out of that money. And with records not being profitable, this is where an artist makes their money.

    That being said, it seems as if Neil Diamond, and ticketmaster for that matter, were being deceitful about this, and that is where I have a problem.

    No Doubt's system is very close to what I thought bands should do. With 10% of the seats (the very front) you buy the ticket with your credit card, and then you must pick it up at the venue with your ID and the card. The cardholder's name is printed on the ticket, and then those picking up the tickets must proceed immediately into the venue (too keep them from scalping on the street).

    This way artists can keep the prices down for the seats that normally get scalped for ridiculous prices (if they don't want the extra money)

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 05:40 PM
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    I could have written that article 10 years ago myself. The decpetion and lies rival the US Congress. Ticketbastard, online Scalpers,and the artists are all in bed together and cleaning up at the gate. Yes we the fans do download and listen to music for free on the net and also bootleg videos of concerts but most of that money was made years ago by the bands and only serves to increase the bands fanbase now. I think alot of people will listen to a few songs on line and then go buy a greatest hits cd at WalMart. The IRS should audit Ticketbastard yearly along with their co-conspirators.
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  4. #4
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in the thread about this in non-music.

    and add one thing at the end...

    I HATE scalping. I hate it as much as anything in the world today. I hate the fact that on the first day of tickets being onsale, there are no seats within the first 20 rows. I hate the fact that ticketmaster and other outlets are NOT HONEST about where these tickets vanished to. I hate the fact that tickets miraculously appear on scalping sites minutes later for 10X the face value. I hate the fact that they lie about how they got them. I hate the fact that people PAY these prices for the tickets thus justifying the business practice and putting their stamp of approval.

    People love to bitch but they keep buying the damn tickets. WHY!?! If people simply boycotted VIP packs, simply boycotted scalping agencies, simply refused to pay anything over the face value of the ticket, this would end. Period.

    This is one of the most crooked and vile businesses in our nation and yet the public buys right into it every time a show comes up because they are ALWAYS sold out. Those first 20 rows are always packed. Why?!

    Why not send these lying, arrogant, greedy bastards a message? Keep you'r fucking tickets and stick 'em up your ass. It's what I do and it's what I challenge ALL of you to do. I don't care who the artist is...fuck 'em. Fuck them, fuck ticketmaster, fuck the promotion company, fuck the venue, fuck the scalpers.

    This isn't a place for legislation. Congress doesn't need to get involved. WE THE PEOPLE, the AUDIENCE, need to change the system by simply not purchasing tickets above their face value...plain and simple. If the tickets don't sell at the inflated prices, the scalpers will lower their prices. Eventually it won't be a profitable business.

    And please save the "but there will always be people who pay for premium seats." I'm sure they will and they can fuck off too because they are the real culprit here. Until everyone takes a stand against this sort of thing, in every form of business, then ALL of us will continue to pay higher prices and get screwed day in and day out.


    I do agree that if anyone deserves the fruits of the screwjob on the ticket buying public, it's the artist...it's their show and their talent. That being said, I don't think anyone should be screwing anyone and I think it's particularly VILE for the artist who is supposed to love and appreciate his audience.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 05:27 PM
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    Default

    I have never bought a scalped ticket and never plan to.
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  6. #6
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    damn...i'm all riled up this morning.

    What the hell is the point of even putting a face value on tickets?!! Is it supposed to be a "suggested retail price?"

    if so this is the only industry I can think of that actually sales things for MORE than the MSRP. Go into a music store and the sale price is less than the list. Furniture store? same thing.

    If we're just going to auction off tickets to the highest bidder, fuck it, no face value. Tickets go on sale and they get auctioned off until they're gone. AT LEAST THAT WOULD BE HONEST.

  7. #7
    Eruption ChrisTheEdHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I have never bought a scalped ticket and never plan to.
    I have bought scalped tickets...after the event started and they were desperate to unload them. Scored 1st level 50-yd line NFL tix for $30 apiece once!
    BUT...I agree about buying from scalpers and/or "resellers" (one in the same, IMO). I would never buy from them UNLESS they are losing money on the deal. That's why I have no problem buying them 10 minutes after kickoff / opening act start time, etc. The a-holes are desperate to get anything for them, and I can get them for below face value while ensuring they lose money on the deal. Its a win-win
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  8. #8
    On Fire aceface9's Avatar
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    03.25.16 @ 11:37 AM
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    Default

    Hey Broken I admire your passion on this. It's ridiculous how this whole operation is crooked and no one seems to care about fixing it as long as they get their share.

    I thought they would overhaul the whole process back when Pearl Jam went up against Ticketmaster, but since TM dominate the market other bands might have been too afraid to join in the fight.

    Unless I'm an absolute die hard fan of the band, I save my hard earned cash and skip the show. It's time we called out these bands that charge absurd amounts for tickets by not going to the shows.

    Easier said than done with some bands though.

  9. #9
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    06.13.16 @ 04:44 PM
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    Default

    The service charges for a Motley Crue show this summer are more expensive than a lawn ticket. That is absolutely ridiculous.

  10. #10
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Yep, I just priced 3 lawn tickets for the Leppard/Poison/Cheap Trick show down in W. Palm Beach...tickets are like $29 a piece, but once you add on all the fees, it comes out to close to $50 a ticket.
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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceface9 View Post
    Hey Broken I admire your passion on this. It's ridiculous how this whole operation is crooked and no one seems to care about fixing it as long as they get their share.

    I thought they would overhaul the whole process back when Pearl Jam went up against Ticketmaster, but since TM dominate the market other bands might have been too afraid to join in the fight.

    Unless I'm an absolute die hard fan of the band, I save my hard earned cash and skip the show. It's time we called out these bands that charge absurd amounts for tickets by not going to the shows.

    Easier said than done with some bands though.
    It pissed a lot of people off when Pearl Jam tried to go it alone. They did their best to establish a system and in some cases even build their own venues because Ticketmaster and Pace had exclusivity contracts with all the venues in most cities, and still do. A lot of people focused on all the wrong things: fewer places, smaller venues, harder to get tickets etc etc. Had fans and the journalists (who are just tools for the establishment, let's face it) had rallied around them, they could have really started something.

    A band has every right to charge whatever they want to charge. I don't begrudge them one bit. What I begrudge is a band saying "our tickets are 25/45/75 bucks and then we go buy tickets and there are taxes, service fees, internet processing fees, delivery fees, printing fees and that 45 dollar ticket just cost 63.50 or more. What I also have a problem with is, as I said, good seats NEVER BECOMING AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC!!!!!!! Everyone should have the same shot at buying a seat at face value PERIOD. If I'm first in line I should have front row seats available. They shouldn't be hidden, sold ahead of time for business that serve as nothing but fronts for the promoter or the band.

    The only way to stop it is to check our own egos at the door. So we won't be able to say we say Van Halen and sat in the pit. So what if we don't see Motley Crue and were so close we got spit on by Nikki Sixx. If people simply did not spend 1000 dollars for a ticket that has a face value of 75 dollars on it, guess what it won't get sold for 1000 bucks. Next time it will be 750. If it doesn't sell there, it will sell for 500 and so and so forth until we get back to a situation where tickets sell for their suggested retail price.

    And you know what? I wouldn't care if the face value of the ticket was 1000 bucks and I could go online and pay 1000 bucks for it plus sales tax. At least it would be transparent but all this backroom bullshit, the lies, the two-faced comments and pathetic attempts to try and pull the wool over our eyes is simply vile, disgusting and should incite much more action than it does because people just HAVE to "be there." They just HAVE to say "I was first row." Well guess what....you could still be there, and for a helluva lot less money if you stood up and said "sorry, I want to be there but I'm not going to support your hypocritical and dishonest business practices." If we as a community of ticket buying music fans simply went on strike, things would change...but we have too many scabs who will play into the problem making everything worse for everyone including themselves.

  12. #12
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Another thing, unrelated to TM, is these "Club Level" seats where people can basically buy the first right to purchase tickets for each event at a venue. I don't know how long they have to make up their minds, but I notice these seats coming up quite a bit at a substantial markup.

    This means that all of the tickets in sections 112-116 are held by these idiots.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 04:24 PM
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    LOL, that's not the way capitalism works, man. Nor is it the way human nature works.

    I'm no fan of brokerage mark-ups, but...people aren't just paying to see a concert. They're paying for the quality of said concert. And the hard cold truth is, proximity makes a concert an entirely different experience. Seeing a band up in the loge from afar for face value is one way to see a concert. Seeing a band front row pit is, I can attest, a completely remarkable method of listening to live music as opposed to other viewpoints within a venue. Two people can go to the exact same show, hear the exact same set, experience a relatively similar sound from the tunes, yet have totally separate perceptions based on their vantage point.

    It's like saying all tequilas should be priced equally no matter their age, vintage, and caliber/quality of distillation. Porsches and Hyundais equal value? MoFi gold CDs same price as regular CDs? That's not how tiered product quality works.

    Granted, the markups on higher demand tickets can be ridiculous from brokers, but if the market bears it, there are always going to be opportunists willing to take advantage of ownership and sell at a higher premium. And there are always going to be consumers who are willing to pay for quality.

    You say that you don't have equal access to front row tickets as others. You're right, there's always going to be some set aside for corporate relations, band family and friend comps, and venue board members. But the facts are, Ticketmaster general sale DOES allow you access to the rest of those premium seats at face value with the same percentages as anyone else online that day (lining up at the venue has gone the way of the dodo, anybody who still does that is foolish, because it's a time-dependent process and the online folk get to 'line up' in the server queue much the same as the venue folk who spent the night). You got a twenty thousand seat venue, and perhaps 200 people are going to get lucky in the face value general public sale and land seats in the first five rows. 200 tickets out of 20,000 tickets, then figure in an estimated amount of interested patrons in the commensurate city where the concert is playing. Say there are 200,000 people in a city of 3 million who are interested in seeing Van Halen and check out Ticketmaster day of sale. Of those 200,000, you can safely guess there are 10% who are willing to pay above face value for better seats. Do the math, man. Quality product invites mark-up, be it from brokers OR private sellers who got lucky in the general sale (check eBay for the mark-ups).

    It's pie in the sky wishing, man, and the only way to combat it is for the artists, venues, and promoters to hold purchased face value tickets until day of show, at the GATE, not the box office, and let you in as you claim your ticket and not a second before. Seeing as how Ticketmaster has a number of subsidiary brokers these days...that's just not going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately.

    But you do always have a remote chance at landing premium seating at face value. Even if ALL available premium seats were available, presuming the city in question is a bona fide metropolis, you'd still only have a slim chance at landing a face value pair.

    Supply and demand, dude. Such is the way of the West.

    For good or for ill...brokers are the only sure method of cherry-picking where you want to sit at a concert. And yes, it costs. Comes down to how much you're willing to pay for an enhanced experience. Everybody prioritizes in life their luxury/disposable income. Some do it for concerts. Some do it for beer and cigarettes. Some do it for whores and coke. Some do it for marlin fishing trips off the coast of southern Baja. People choose what they want to pay for. No recreational activity is priced at a flat rate. There's always going to be tiers, for people who are willing to pay more for a better thing. That doesn't mean they're suckers who ruin it for everyone else. It just means they're more fortunate than many.

    Welcome to the real world.

  14. #14
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    I hear what you're saying, but I can't think of any other situation where one can rarely buy the product off the shelf at face value and instead has to go through someone else who bought it first solely for the purpose of turning it around and profiting off it. Especially since I was always told there was supposed to be laws against such a thing. You can go to that liquor store that carries your favourite brand of tequila and get it at the market price without having to worry about someone going in there first and buying up all the tequila and then turning around and selling it to you for a much higher price. It's bad enough that ticketmaster gets away with all the various fees they tack onto a ticket, but when those tickets seem to then only make it into the hands of the brokers, then something seems amiss.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    I can. Almost all of them center on enhanced or rare methods in experiencing a thing that the general masses experience at the same place, yet at a different level.

    You can go to Disneyland and pay the 70 bucks per person for a day pass, and experience all the rides the VIP pass people do...except they paid 1000 bucks per person for the access passes that allow them to enter the rides through the exits instead of the entrance and only have to wait five minutes in line instead of three hours. In this case, Disney is the broker who marks up.

    You can go to Atlantis in Dubai, big old water park, and pay 100 bucks per person for fun in the desert sun. For 300 more per person, you can swim with dolphins in the same water park. In this case, the corporation running the resort is the whore broker.

    You can hit San Diego Wild Animal Park and take the tram tour for 60 per. For 200 more per, you can take a private jeep into the reserve and see the animals a helluva lot closer than the tram folks. Again, levels of access, corporations running a tiered cost basis.

    Simply because the ticket is first available at a flat rate publically, then bought and put on the secondary market at a marked up rate in that manner doesn't make the statute much different, it's just those other experiences are marked up originally. Sure, as was mentioned earlier, the artists/promotors could tier those tickets to highest markup at the get-go and make transfers near next to impossible, but that hasn't happened yet.

    Moreover, the secondary market will always find a way around corners. Rush tried to do this last year with box-office only pickup for premium seating, but brokers sent runners to the box office day of show and made the exchange there out in front of the venue. AC/DC and U2's ticketless experiments get a little closer to discouraging brokers, but they still found ways around it...the brokers bought their runners a cheap nosebleed ticket just to get access inside, walked in with the buyers who paid the fat amounts for premium seats into the venue with the credit card check-in at the gate, then walked back out and did it again and again.

    If we're simply talking about intent and morality, well, sure....secondary market markups for rare items do indeed suck on that basis. However, it also provides a service, heinous as it is. Access on levels notoriously difficult to acquire.

 

 

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