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  1. #1
    Sinner's Swing! Jesus H Christ's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 01:51 PM
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    Default Massachusetts may consider a mileage charge

    Mileage tax..wave of the future, dude....What a complete f**cking nightmare this would develop into. The government could track your mileage they could also track where you go when you go. Other States could jump on the band wagon and charge you a fee for every mile driven in that State. One would think both ends of the political spectrum liberals and conservatives would be opposed to this shit...



    By Glen Johnson
    Associated Press Writer / February 17, 2009

    BOSTON-A tentative plan to overhaul Massachusetts' transportation system by using GPS chips to charge motorists a quarter-cent for every mile behind the wheel has angered some drivers.

    "It's outrageous, it's kind of Orwellian, Big Brotherish," said Sen. Scott Brown, R-Wrentham, who drafted legislation last week to prohibit the practice. "You'd need a whole new department of cronies just to keep track of it."

    But a "Vehicle Miles Traveled" program like the one the governor may unveil this week has already been tested -- with positive results -- in Oregon.

    Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island, as well as the federal government, also are talking about such programs. And in North Carolina, a panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

    "The Big Brother issue was identified during the first meeting of the task force that developed our program," said Jim Whitty, who oversees innovation projects for the Oregon Department of Transportation. "Everything we did from that point forward, even though we used electronics, was to eliminate those concerns."

    A draft overhaul transport plan prepared for Gov. Deval Patrick says implementing a Vehicle Miles Traveled system to replace the gas tax makes sense. "A user-based system, collected electronically, is a fair way to pay for our transportation needs in the future," it says.

    Patrick, who had yet to settle on any of the ideas contained in the draft, told reporters last week, "I like any idea that is faster, cheaper, simpler."

    The idea behind the program is simple: As cars become more fuel efficient or powered by electricity, gas tax revenues decline. Yet the cost of building and maintaining roads and bridges is increasing. A state could cover that gap by charging drivers precisely for the mileage their vehicles put on public roads.

    "There needs to be a new way of thinking about, `How do we pay for all of this?'" said Richard Dimino, president of A Better City, a business-friendly group that considers transportation issues.

    "One of the ways is thinking about the automobile like a utility: When we turn on our automobile and use it, we would be charged like we do when we turn on the lights and we start using electricity."

    In Oregon, the state paid volunteers who let the transportation department install GPS receivers in 300 vehicles. The device did not transmit a signal -- which would allow real-time tracking of a driver's movements -- but instead passively received satellite pings telling the receiver where it was in terms of latitude and longitude coordinates.

    The state used those coordinates to determine when the vehicle was driving both within Oregon and outside the state. And it measured the respective distances through a connection with the vehicle's odometer.

    When a driver pulled into a predetermined service station, the pump linked electronically with the receiver, downloaded the number of miles driven in Oregon and then charged the driver a fee based on the distance. The gas tax they would have paid was reduced by the amount of the user fee. Drivers continued to be charged gas tax for miles driven outside Oregon.

    Under such systems, one of which is already used in London, drivers are charged more for entering a crowded area during rush hour than off-peak periods.

    "What the mileage charge does, if it's structured properly, is simply charge for the basic responsibility of people to pay for the amount of wear they put on the state's roads"
    "The less I needed, the better I felt." ~ Charles Bukowski.

  2. #2
    Eruption Naked Wake's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 12:57 PM
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    I don't know what to say anymore. The things they come up with these days. It's a scary time to be alive

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 02:31 PM
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    How about tax on orgasms,tax on urination,tax on defication,tax on flatuence,tax on breathing,internet tax is cuming too.Lets just get it over with and give every thing to the Gov.Mr Marx calling Mr Marx line 1.
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 01:59 PM
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    Default

    I am about ready to buy a farm, put solar over the entire roof of the house, and just get the fuck off the grid.

    This is insane. Another level of government intervention in our lives. Great idea.

    How about just one tax for everything? I know, too fucking simple.

    Sorry for the harsh language, but damn, we are turning into fucking France and it pisses me off.

    Twenty years from now WE are going to have college students rioting because there wasn't a job given to them when they graduated from college with a C average.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 01:56 PM
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    How are we going to pay for all of this? Simple, don't. I don't suppose their government mandated healthcare could provide funds for this, could it?

    Sometimes you just gotta say "what the fuck?"
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 02:34 PM
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    Or, they could simply not take care of the roads. At all. That would solve lots of problems, nobody would be able to drive anywhere. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege.

    I'm not necessarily for this or anything that makes my life more expensive, but it makes sense from a standpoint of charging for the individual use vs. across everyone. In fact, if you're conservative, you should be for this, since it does allow individual freedom - you don't pay a dime if you don't use the service. It's already in place for electricity, sewer and water, etc. What's the difference? I'm sure electric meters were considered "big brother" when those were new.

    I remember the fuss over Easy Pass - the government COULD have tracked speed and given out tickets based on time between tolls, but they chose not to, and it doesn't seem to be an issue as the system is up all over the country and nobody is bitching. This system COULD be used to track cars, but they're apparently choosing not to. I'm sure the devices can be designed to receive only, we'll see.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    Or, they could simply not take care of the roads. At all. That would solve lots of problems, nobody would be able to drive anywhere. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege.

    I'm not necessarily for this or anything that makes my life more expensive, but it makes sense from a standpoint of charging for the individual use vs. across everyone. In fact, if you're conservative, you should be for this, since it does allow individual freedom - you don't pay a dime if you don't use the service. It's already in place for electricity, sewer and water, etc. What's the difference? I'm sure electric meters were considered "big brother" when those were new.

    I remember the fuss over Easy Pass - the government COULD have tracked speed and given out tickets based on time between tolls, but they chose not to, and it doesn't seem to be an issue as the system is up all over the country and nobody is bitching. This system COULD be used to track cars, but they're apparently choosing not to. I'm sure the devices can be designed to receive only, we'll see.
    yeah I get what you're saying...it's basically a consumption tax and i don't have an inherent problem with the notion of paying for what I use. I do have a problem with having a gps plugged into my car. Is there not another way of doing this? What about when you do the state inspection? Can't they just take the mileage and charge you? Seems very very problematic for our government to have direct access to where we are at any given moment. It's bad enough cel phone companies and OnStar have that information and could give it to a government entity.

    Now then, to another aspect of this issue: NONE of this would be an issue if governments didn't spend so much of our tax money on complete bullshit. Paving roads and other infrastructure issues should be at the top of the priority list...not something they have to get creative with how to fund. Cut back their salaries, extravagant travel and office allowances as well as per diems and that right there will be a great start to being able to fully fund local, state and federal roads and infrastructure.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 02:34 PM
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    broken -

    As you said - the cellphones already do that. Since I doubt you're driving anywhere without one, what do you care, you know? Plus, the government has already pretty much established they're not going to intrude to that extent - see my example with the EZ Pass system - they could stick their noses in further with the technology, but they don't.

    Regardless of all that, I get what you're saying. It's a...wait for it.....here it comes..........slippery slope.

  9. #9
    Sinner's Swing! Wickett's Avatar
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    07.19.17 @ 06:30 AM
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    Default

    Let me tell you how it will be;
    There's one for you, nineteen for me.
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    Should five per cent appear too small,
    Be thankful I don't take it all.
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    (if you drive a car, car) - I'll tax the street;
    (if you try to sit, sit) - I'll tax your seat;
    (if you get too cold, cold) - I'll tax the heat;
    (if you take a walk, walk) - I'll tax your feet.

    Taxman!

    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    Don't ask me what I want it for, (ah-ah, mister Wilson)
    If you don't want to pay some more. (ah-ah, mister heath)
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    Now my advice for those who die, (taxman)
    Declare the pennies on your eyes. (taxman)
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    And you're working for no one but me.
    Don't drink the Jim Jones punch. They're called theToxic Twins for a reason...

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    broken -

    As you said - the cellphones already do that. Since I doubt you're driving anywhere without one, what do you care, you know? Plus, the government has already pretty much established they're not going to intrude to that extent - see my example with the EZ Pass system - they could stick their noses in further with the technology, but they don't.

    Regardless of all that, I get what you're saying. It's a...wait for it.....here it comes..........slippery slope.
    it's not even that it's a...wait for it...here it comes again...slippery slope. What bothers me, and what has bothered me for some time, is that we continue to erect the very mechanisms by which we will be controlled. You're right, perhaps this particular government at this particular time is not interested in anything more than collecting tax and has no interest in "watching" us any further. But the infrastructure exists for any subsequent government to do so at their whim. What's more, in generations passed, a government would have had to work a great deal hard to create the kind of world that we are building for them right now, with smiles on our faces. Want to stay connected? You don't want your kid going out into the crazy world of pedophiles and rapists with a phone do you? Oh and did you know you can keep track of them with it? Hey you don't want to be in a wreck on some desolate road and have no way of getting help? Get OnStar! Hey you don't want your car/pet/kid to be lost and have no way of finding them do you? Slip this chip under their skin!? Through fear and an artificially generated sense of convenience we are subscribing and paying for the very tools that a neferaious government could use to monitor our every move. Don't be a tool by holding up the line at the store by writing a check or counting out cash you stupid insensitive bastard! Use your ATM card! Leave a trail! There are cameras popping up everywhere, GPS becoming the norm, and chipping will inevitably become the norm as more and more people elect to have them implanted in our chilren. I'm not worried about it my lifetime necessarily but the same way we have kids today that don't remember not having the web and text messaging, we will have a generation that doesn't remember NOT having chips, cameras everywhere and our government watching our every move. It's more than a little concerning, especially since we've already reached the point where if you choose NOT to do the cel phone thing and still prefer cash you're looked like some monster from a different planet. So whenever there is yet another baby step taken in the erosion of our ability to have a private moment, i get very very bothered. For christ's sake, it's getting to where the only time we can be alone is in the car and now that i have a car with OnStar I don't even feel all that alone in there anymore. Yes I play into this same problem because I have a cel phone and my car came with OnStar but if I didn't have a cel then my parents and my wife would flip out. "Oh my god, how will I get a hold of you!?!!" It wasn't 15 years ago that none of us thought cel phones were really worth the expense. Every day that goes by I pine for a chance to just drop out, head south of the border somewhere and just grow plantains and lettuce or something just so I can have a little peace and not worry about all this crap...just me, the wife, my dogs and two kitties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickett View Post
    Let me tell you how it will be;
    There's one for you, nineteen for me.
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    Should five per cent appear too small,
    Be thankful I don't take it all.
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    (if you drive a car, car) - I'll tax the street;
    (if you try to sit, sit) - I'll tax your seat;
    (if you get too cold, cold) - I'll tax the heat;
    (if you take a walk, walk) - I'll tax your feet.

    Taxman!

    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    Don't ask me what I want it for, (ah-ah, mister Wilson)
    If you don't want to pay some more. (ah-ah, mister heath)
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    Now my advice for those who die, (taxman)
    Declare the pennies on your eyes. (taxman)
    'Cause I'm the taxman,
    Yeah, I'm the taxman.

    And you're working for no one but me.
    The world is a little sadder with Georgie not being alive but thank god he was because i don't know what it would be like without having had him for the time we did!

  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High RRMB's Avatar
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    05.21.17 @ 06:42 PM
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    Welcome to the world of what truck drivers face. If the driver is an owner operator, he pays a road use tax for each state he transports goods in. In my case, company driver, my employer pays this.

    Considering passenger cars account for the most traffic, hence most the wear & tear on the infrastructure, why is it that trucking entities pay the most in road use tax? Why are we the ONLY ones that even pay a road use tax?

    Some owner operators, and trucking companies, refuse to run to the eastern seaboard because the states depend entirely on trucks to pay for the majority of road repairs. This means your essentials are going to cost more. Because it costs more for us to bring in the things you need for daily living.

    Let me give an example. To use the roads in Massachusetts, my company pays a tax on the miles driven there. IF we don't, the state can prohibit us from driving there. It's only fair that it's own residents should have to pay a road use tax as well. Especially considering they use the roads everyday.
    Last edited by RRMB; 02.18.09 at 11:19 AM.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 01:56 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    Or, they could simply not take care of the roads. At all. That would solve lots of problems, nobody would be able to drive anywhere. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege.

    I'm not necessarily for this or anything that makes my life more expensive, but it makes sense from a standpoint of charging for the individual use vs. across everyone. In fact, if you're conservative, you should be for this, since it does allow individual freedom - you don't pay a dime if you don't use the service. It's already in place for electricity, sewer and water, etc. What's the difference? I'm sure electric meters were considered "big brother" when those were new.

    I remember the fuss over Easy Pass - the government COULD have tracked speed and given out tickets based on time between tolls, but they chose not to, and it doesn't seem to be an issue as the system is up all over the country and nobody is bitching. This system COULD be used to track cars, but they're apparently choosing not to. I'm sure the devices can be designed to receive only, we'll see.
    This would all be true if they decided to cut out the taxes already taken out to support it. The problem is, they are lumping an additional cost to those who actually support themselves enough to have a car to drive to work--instead of using government-propped-up mass transit.

    My point is, stop spending money on shit the government shouldn't be spending on, and you'll find that they already have more than enough to take care of the problems they should be worried about.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  13. #13
    Good Enough pal1800's Avatar
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    06.02.16 @ 09:13 AM
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    We haven't seen anything yet. Big Government is gonna eat this country and it's citizens alive.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal1800 View Post
    We haven't seen anything yet. Big Government is gonna eat this country and it's citizens alive.
    well..eat the good citizens alive and then regurgate us in order to feed the losers like a mama bird does her young.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 01:59 PM
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    I pay sales tax when I buy the car, an annual property tax on the thing, and I pay tax on my gas.

    Do they really need to add this?

    And having a GPS installed in my car irkes me as well. I have a choice with EZ Pass and a cell phone. I know I technically don't have to have a car, but it would make earning a living pretty difficult without one.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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