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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default My political philosophy

    So we've all been talking about politics a lot lately and it has gotten me back on a kick to define my political views. I do this every so often where I sit down and write out specifically what I believe in, as it pertains to government, its role in a community and what kind of laws I think there should be. This time I think I'll do it here and maybe you guys can help me focus in certain things, help me make up my mind about other things or change my mind on things I haven't thought all the way through.

    I am not a liberal or a conservative and I'm not a republican or a democrat. The best I can come up with is I'm a Brokenista.

    So in quick bullet points I'll lay out some of things I'd have in place if I were in charge of government for Brokenland.

    1. gun ownership, absolutely. Lucid, law abiding citizens should be able to arm up. I have no problem, however, keeping certain types of super guns in the hands of the military and trying to limit the # of them going into the general population.

    2. gay marriage...should be a non-issue. This is not a government issue, it's a philosophical/religious issue. I don't think a church should determine public policy and I don't think a government should determine which parts of the bible to pay attention to. If two men or two women want to marry, that's between them and god. There should be no law restricting their ability to get married. If a church wants to say "we're not going to marry gays" that's their perogative but they don't get to determine that for the rest of the community. Similarly, government shouldn't force a religious institution to marry or acknowledge the marriage of anyone.

    3. Drug use. Should be legal period. This goes for pot, coke, heroin whatever. If someone wants to get loaded in their home, let 'em. If they get high or drunk and kill someone, well, they're going to jail for killing someone. I don't think legalizing drugs is going to cause a flood of new users. If people don't do drugs it's generally because they don't want to do drugs, not because it's illegal. People who do want to do drugs don't pay attention to the laws.

    4. I believe in a strong seperation of church and state. I think government should acknowledge the existence of religion but that should pretty much be as far as it goes. If someone wants to be religious, good for them. It shouldn't cost the tax payer anything. That said, no tax breaks for churches. Beyond that, a church shouldn't have any legitimate influence over what happens in the public sector. I won't let a mayor or a govenor tell a preacher what to preach, I don't want a preacher telling a government what flies and what doesn't.

    5. Education is essential to any community. I think someone who shows the ability and desire to go to school, should be allowed to period. Public colleges should be free to the public. If you want to get a PhD in biochemistry and you can make the grades to get in and stay in, you're not paying for it. It behooves the greater community to have an intelligient populace. If you want to go to a private institution, it's on your nickel but anyone who can demonstrate aptitude should be able to study as much as they want. Wanna be a doctor but don't have the money? Great, come to a state school. We'll pay your way. In exchange, you get to work the first couple/few years of your career in a clinic/hospital of my choosing. Once you're done, you can open up a private practice or whatever.

    6. Welfare...there would be hardly any of it. In order to receive it you'd have to come to an office every week. You'd have to pee in a cup to make sure you're clean because though drugs are legal, you don't get to do them if you can't earn your own money to buy them. You'd have to provide specific documentation of your attempts to find employment AND you would have to work in some capacity for the state or be getting very good grades in a school or vocational academy. Nothing is free. If you worked in a T-shirt factory that closed down, fine. We'll hook you up with food stamps and welfare BUT you have a choice. You can either go to school and learn a new, more desirable trade while looking for work once you finish your certification/graduation OR you can work for the state rooting through the sewers, crawling through attics, sweeping the streets whatever. Also, no babies while you're on the welfare. If you can't take care of yourself, you have no business bringing in a new addition to your family.

    7. I'd do away with laws prohibiting when someone can buy or sell booze and I would do away with the drinking age. If you're old enough to sign up for the military you're old enough to have a beer.

    8. Employment would be mandatory. No options. No workie workie, no votey votey. If you lose your job, come by the unemployment office and we'll explain #6 on this list. If you choose not to avail yourself of those options, well, good luck to you because you're going to be at the mercy of the charity of private citizens and their churches...who are no going to be paying taxes so they're not going to have as much money to float your deadbeat ass.

    9.Government intrusion into the economy would be limited but would still exist. It would have to in order to keep a profit minded economy moving and prevent it from turning into a monopolized economy that in practice would have as much in common with socialist economies as it would with anything else.

    10. Voting would be restricted to those who can show aptitude and an understanding of the basic processes and concepts of government and employment would be required.

    11. Retirement means you get social security. Your life's employment financed public life and government for all those years. Now it's the public's turn to finance your life. You get to relax and take a break.

    12. Military service means you just got a golden ticket because you will have access to fixed rate loans at below the going interest rate, you will have your health care taken care and if you choose to visit a private school for your education upon leaving the military, you will have that cost taken care of but this doesn't go for anybody that jumps in, does their two years and leaves. It would definitely go for anyone who saw active combat and who had a certain number of years.

    13. There would be a nation sales tax. I see it as the only fair way of taxing people. I think people should be taxed on their consumption, not on their output. You don't want to pay taxes? Don't spend money on shit. As for corporate taxes, basically the same context though if they want to spend money on research and development, expansion etc, no taxey taxey.

    14. I drastically change the way traffic violations are handled. Speeding wouldn't be a crime. Running someone off the road would be. Rolling through a stop sign or a red light wouldn't be a crime, causing an accident would be. Basically I would punish people for what they did, not try to prevent them from happening, which can't happen anyways. Right in line, having an open container in your car would not be against the law, getting drunk and killing someone would be, which it already is so as I see, we don't need an open container law.

    I'll keep adding as I think of stuff, this is by no means a definitive list, i'm just going stream of thought at the moment trying to get everything on paper and I'll adjust, add to and remove things as I need to...feel free to comment

  2. #2
    Future's in the past....
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    Only big problem I see is #10. What would you do with those who stay home to take care of their children or are caregivers for their parents? I do both and get paid for neither.


    Oh, and while I believe in seat belts, I do not believe it should be a law to wear them.
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanHalenRules View Post
    Only big problem I see is #10. What would you do with those who stay home to take care of their children or are caregivers for their parents?

    Oh, and while I believe in seat belts, I do not believe it should be a law to wear them.
    AH...good point. Those folks would be able to vote, if they show aptitude. And the seatbelt thing would fall into the same laws I throw away regarding moving violations and such.

  4. #4
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    The teachings of Bill Hicks and George Carlin should be compulsory in schools.
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Its amazing but I agree with you on all of your counts. Want to start a new political party?

  6. #6
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    we disagree on most thinks Broken yet I still like you.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    we disagree on most thinks Broken yet I still like you.
    like what brother? Help me see things a little differently. You're one of the people I was thinking of when I started whipping this up!

  8. #8
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    we're pretty good on point 1. I'm not a gun guy but I have no issue with good people having them to protect their homes and family

    Point 2 - I've never really cared.

    3 - We couldn't be further apart. I think drug use is one of the biggest problems that society faces. I don't think the penalty can be high enough.

    4 - I think religious people tend to be law abiding people. If people are in church then they ain't killin each other. I'm all for church and any help the state can give is money well spent.

    5. Nice idea - good luck paying for it.

    6. My thoughts on welfare is a little different. I think welfare payments should be 5 times what they are and should be 10 times harder to get. Some people need the help of society through no fault of their own. If you're born with a disease that we have no cure for you shouldn't live your life in poverty for instance. Those people should be given everything we can possibly provide. Everyone else gets nothing unless they want to work. I think government should provide a fulltime job at just below the minimum wage to anyone who wants it.

    7. disagree completely on point 7

    8. point 8 would be covered by my welfare policy.

    9. Point 9 is impossible.

    10. I love point 10.

    11. no problem with 11.

    12. see point #5.

    13. Canada has one, works well here. You do still need income tax though. Someone who lives in Sweden for instance and makes 8 million dollars playing hockey in New York needs to pay taxes.

    14. I hate point 14.


    maybe we don't disagree on most, closer to 50/50
    Last edited by It's Mike; 02.09.09 at 12:27 PM.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    we're pretty good on point 1. I'm not a gun guy but I have no issue with good people having them to protect their homes and family

    Point 2 - I've never really cared.

    3 - We couldn't be further apart. I think drug use is one of the biggest problems that society faces. I don't think the penalty can be high enough.

    4 - I think religious people tend to be law abiding people. If people are in church then they ain't killin each other. I'm all for church and any help the state can give is money well spent.

    5. Nice idea - good luck paying for it.

    6. My thoughts on welfare is a little different. I think welfare payments should be 5 times what they are and should be 10 times harder to get. Some people need the help of society through no fault of their own. If you're born with a disease that we have no cure for you shouldn't live your life in poverty for instance. Those people should be given everything we can possibly provide. Everyone else gets nothing unless they want to work. I think government should provide a fulltime job at just below the minimum wage to anyone who wants it.

    7. disagree completely on point 7

    8. point 8 would be covered by my welfare policy.

    9. Point 9 is impossible.

    10. I love point 10.

    11. no problem with 11.

    12. see point #5.

    13. Canada has one, works well here. You do still need income tax though. Someone who lives in Sweden for instance and makes 8 million dollars playing hockey in New York needs to pay taxes.

    14. I hate point 14.


    maybe we don't disagree on most, closer to 50/50
    i agree completely that people who can't work because they're medically retarded or paralyzed or whatever, would be taken care of...and not like in squalor. They shouldn't live like kings either, but yeah, their families would have assistance if necessary in taking care of them.

    You're point on #13 is very valid....a citizen who lives overseas would still need to chip in so perhaps an income tax for those citizens since their sales tax would go to wherever they are spending their money.

    What's so bad about #14 and #7?

    As for drugs, I think people who can't use responsibly are among the biggest problems facing society today...we never notice responsible users because they can hold their shit....so to speak. I hate going to the "i know tons of people" card but I will in this instance...I know tons of people who regularly use all sorts of drugs and no one else knows because they're aren't freaking out, causing trouble. People like that should be able to be left in peace. I think it's very similar to gun control. Guns don't kill people, people do. Drugs aren't a problem, people are.

    As for churches, I wouldn't want government to be hostile towards churches, I just don't think they should get a free ride. Being religious is a choice...a choice I've made, I might add. I don't think anyone should finance that choice but me.

  10. #10
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    i agree completely that people who can't work because they're medically retarded or paralyzed or whatever, would be taken care of...and not like in squalor. They shouldn't live like kings either, but yeah, their families would have assistance if necessary in taking care of them.

    You're point on #13 is very valid....a citizen who lives overseas would still need to chip in so perhaps an income tax for those citizens since their sales tax would go to wherever they are spending their money.

    What's so bad about #14 and #7?

    As for drugs, I think people who can't use responsibly are among the biggest problems facing society today...we never notice responsible users because they can hold their shit....so to speak. I hate going to the "i know tons of people" card but I will in this instance...I know tons of people who regularly use all sorts of drugs and no one else knows because they're aren't freaking out, causing trouble. People like that should be able to be left in peace. I think it's very similar to gun control. Guns don't kill people, people do. Drugs aren't a problem, people are.

    As for churches, I wouldn't want government to be hostile towards churches, I just don't think they should get a free ride. Being religious is a choice...a choice I've made, I might add. I don't think anyone should finance that choice but me.

    The drug thing is such a slippery slope, I'm sure there are very responsible meth users and crackheads, I just think society would be better off if they were responsible non meth users and crackheads. I don't want to wait to see who's gonna hold up a bank to get drug money, I'd just rather get the drugs off the street (I know easier said then done).

    On point 7 if we lived in an age where people had parents who told them that getting loaded at 14 is a bad idea all the time then I'd agree with you. Sadly we don't. As for selling booze, I think we should leave that responsiibilty to those who have reached a certain maturity. I know age doens't always equaly maturity but it should in most cases.


    On 14, I couldn't disagree more. If you're an idiot who likes to run red lights all the time I don't think we should need to wait for you to kill someone to stop you. I'm a major believer in punishing the action and not the result. If I open fire in a crowd and just happen to miss everyone I should still go to jail for the rest of my life. I shouldn't be rewarded for blind luck. If it were up to me all cars would have speed inhibiters or they wouldn't be allowed on public roads. You want to go 100 miles an hour, fine, build your own road and knock yourself out. Or head to a race track - I don't want to deal with you on my street.

    My take on government is quite simple, make life for responible people easier. Fix the roads, don't sink us into debt, help those who need it, and get those that threaten my life the hell out of society. I wish government would just do that and leave everything else alone.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    You seem to be more libertarian than anything else. I am an Independent (or Decline to State, technically), but have mostly conservative libertarian thought.

    It's Me, you tend to have a lot of insight and I like you in the NBA thread, but we def disagree here.

    Point 1, I don't mind some limits, but for the most part, I am a believer in this right

    Point 2, all government-approved marriages should actually be civil unions available to any couple. Homosexuality is real, it exists, has forever, and occurs outside of humans. Churches should provide marriages as they see

    Point 3, drugs can be very dangerous for a lot of people. But so can smoking and drinking. Besides, drug trafficking is a huge industry that promotes violence, sales to children, gang wars, and funds terrorism. Legalizing drugs would give people the choice to put something into their own body, a la alcohol (which has more violent crime attributed to it than any other drug). Legalization would help solve these problems.

    Point 4, I mostly agree, though the Supreme Court has had some interesting takes on this right. To paraphrase Bill Maher, when my house burns down, I pay taxes, and I can call the fire department. When you church burns down...you can pray for rain.

    Point 5, I wish, but won't happen. However, if tax money was spent only on the smallest amount possible, we could afford something like this. State schools were intended for this. However, no one cares enough about state legislature, senate, or their congressmen or senators in order to stop the ridiculous spending that goes on.

    Point 6, I am by no means a smart man, and while I am not a fan of welfare, I am not as hardcore as you. There has to be some sort of safety net. Some will take advantage, yes. But it will be time limited, and yes, you must do some sort of work in return.

    Point 7, I wouldn't do away with the drinking age, but I would just make everything 18.

    Point 8, you can't put any restrictions on who can vote, except for criminal ones IMO. This is a free country. If your definition of Happiness is not to work, well, then that is your right, IMO. You can't force people to find a job. The problem isn't with the people, it's with the pandering parties, especially, in this case, the Democrats. When people figure out they can vote themselves no taxes, even handouts, then you have a problem.

    Point 9, many would argue too much government intrusion caused the financial collapse, and too much government intrusion to fix it is just gonna create more problems. However, the government should be whistleblowers, not looking out for the best interests of the companies, but the people. Take for example, Barney Frank. Fine, he can chair the House Financial Services Committee, but then he can't take any money from an institution he would oversee. He cannot take money from Fanny and Freddy, as he did, nor any banks, etc.

    Point 10, While I like the idea, it's not the place of the government to limit voting to the "educated". Usually the uneducated are the poor, and we tried poll taxes once. Unfair.

    Point 11, Good in theory, but unfortunately, it's not gonna happen for me. Social Securty is dead, and we don't even count it towards are debt. $10,000,000,000,000 is not even close to the real debt when you factor these other debts in.

    Point 12, Yes.

    Poitn 13, I am a flat taxer. I have done all kinds of research on tax rates on our debt. Inevitably, the more our incomes our taxed, the more in debt we become. Besides, income tax is only 100 years old, except for a few years to pay for the civil war. A consumption tax is one fair way to do this. Our tax code is too complicated. It could be condensed to one paragraph, not several volumes.

    Point 14, I disagree here. While I think government intrusion, or at least too much is almost always bad, on the road, basic laws are good. Speed, stop lights, etc. However, too much intrusion is bad. For example not talking on a cell phone in the car. It has not been shown hands free devices decrease accidents. However, now I cannot hold my phone in my car. Not to mention that there is already a law against driving while distracted. There are two parts to using a cell--holding it, and carrying on a conversation. You're telling me I could hold a soda, and talk to other people in the car, but I can't hold a phone, and talk to someone else? Still though, basic traffic laws must be enforced.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 02.09.09 at 01:06 PM.

  12. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    It's Me, you tend to have a lot of insight and I like you in the NBA thread, but we def disagree here.

    .
    that's ok LM, the world would be really boring and very ugly if everyone was like me.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    The drug thing is such a slippery slope, I'm sure there are very responsible meth users and crackheads, I just think society would be better off if they were responsible non meth users and crackheads. I don't want to wait to see who's gonna hold up a bank to get drug money, I'd just rather get the drugs off the street (I know easier said then done).

    On point 7 if we lived in an age where people had parents who told them that getting loaded at 14 is a bad idea all the time then I'd agree with you. Sadly we don't. As for selling booze, I think we should leave that responsiibilty to those who have reached a certain maturity. I know age doens't always equaly maturity but it should in most cases.


    On 14, I couldn't disagree more. If you're an idiot who likes to run red lights all the time I don't think we should need to wait for you to kill someone to stop you. I'm a major believer in punishing the action and not the result. If I open fire in a crowd and just happen to miss everyone I should still go to jail for the rest of my life. I shouldn't be rewarded for blind luck. If it were up to me all cars would have speed inhibiters or they wouldn't be allowed on public roads. You want to go 100 miles an hour, fine, build your own road and knock yourself out. Or head to a race track - I don't want to deal with you on my street.

    My take on government is quite simple, make life for responible people easier. Fix the roads, don't sink us into debt, help those who need it, and get those that threaten my life the hell out of society. I wish government would just do that and leave everything else alone.
    you're such a perfect balance for me. You have such a clean, compassionate and brass tacks approach to life. I think it would be great if you and I lived close to one another so we could sit at a pub and has these sorts of things out. I think it would be a blast.

    As for the road way thing, I don't advocate pure anarchy. For instance, red lights would be in effect during peak times but at a certain hour, they would simply become yield/stop signs. Most stop signs would be yield signs period. The same way that we can turn right on red, I would allow for turning left or going straight on red, providing that the traffic conditions allow for it. I think it would allow people to get where they're going with greater ease. As for the speed, history and other countries show that high speed does not necessarily equate to a greater number of accidents. Right now, particularly in small cities and outlying areas, traffic citations are nothing more than revenue generators and I would do away with it. Find another way to fund things that doesn't involve hindering traffic or penalizing people for piddly crap.

    You and I are right there when it comes to government should really only concern itself with the basic functions of communal living, roads, drainage, etc and let people live their lives. I do agree that people that don't want to play nice with eachother should simply be removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Point 8, you can't put any restrictions on who can vote, except for criminal ones IMO. This is a free country. If your definition of Happiness is not to work, well, then that is your right, IMO. You can't force people to find a job. The problem isn't with the people, it's with the pandering parties, especially, in this case, the Democrats. When people figure out they can vote themselves no taxes, even handouts, then you have a problem.
    There is a lot to be said for those that wish to live the vagabond life. My interest is not to force them to change their way of life, they can live it just fine. I think of voting the same as I think of say a club or organization. Only dues paying members tend to have a steak in what decisions a board makes. If you have a job and pay taxes and are educated, you get to vote. If you choose to be a vagabond, then I see no reason for you to vote. If you're a deadbeat I see no reason for you to vote. If you're stupid I see no reason for you to vote. Those groups, by and large, are a big part of why we have complete tools in office. They are the most easily pandered to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    you're such a perfect balance for me. You have such a clean, compassionate and brass tacks approach to life. I think it would be great if you and I lived close to one another so we could sit at a pub and has these sorts of things out. I think it would be a blast.

    As for the road way thing, I don't advocate pure anarchy. For instance, red lights would be in effect during peak times but at a certain hour, they would simply become yield/stop signs. Most stop signs would be yield signs period. The same way that we can turn right on red, I would allow for turning left or going straight on red, providing that the traffic conditions allow for it. I think it would allow people to get where they're going with greater ease. As for the speed, history and other countries show that high speed does not necessarily equate to a greater number of accidents. Right now, particularly in small cities and outlying areas, traffic citations are nothing more than revenue generators and I would do away with it. Find another way to fund things that doesn't involve hindering traffic or penalizing people for piddly crap.

    You and I are right there when it comes to government should really only concern itself with the basic functions of communal living, roads, drainage, etc and let people live their lives. I do agree that people that don't want to play nice with eachother should simply be removed.

    no problem with your take on traffic. At the end of the day, even though we disagree on many things we tend to agree on the big ones.

    I just wish people acted more responsibly, that's the biggest problem society has. The stupidity of people bleeds into every major debate we have, crime, abortion, the economy. If people just didn't make the volume of dumb decisions that they do, I'm getting even more grey hair thinking about it. lol
    Last edited by It's Mike; 02.09.09 at 01:27 PM.

 

 

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