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  1. #1
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    10.27.17 @ 06:31 PM
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    Default Auto Deal Unravels in the Senate

    Thursday, December 11, 2008
    Auto Deal Unravels in the Senate
    http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/mar...lks-come-halt/

    A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was "terribly disappointed" about the demise of an emerging bipartisan deal to rescue Detroit's Big Three.

    He spoke shortly after Republicans left a closed-door meeting where they balked at giving the automakers federal aid unless their powerful union agreed to slash wages next year to bring them into line with those of Japanese carmakers.

    Republican Sen. George V. Voinovich of Ohio, a strong bailout supporter, said the UAW was willing to make the cuts — but not until 2011.

    Reid was working to set a swift test vote on the measure Thursday night, but it was just a formality. The bill was virtually certain to fail to reach the 60-vote threshold it would need to clear to advance.

    Reid called the bill's collapse "a loss for the country," adding "I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It's not going to be a pleasant sight."

    The implosion followed an unprecedented marathon set of talks at the Capitol among labor, the auto industry and lawmakers who bargained into the night in efforts to salvage the auto bailout at a time of soaring job losses and widespread economic turmoil.

    "In the midst of already deep and troubling economic times, we are about to add to that by walking away," said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., the Banking Committee chairman who led negotiations on the package.

    Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee, the GOP point man in the talks, said the two sides had been tantalizingly close to a deal, but the UAW's refusal to agree wage concessions by a specific date in 2009 kept them apart.

    The autoworkers' contract doesn't expire until 2011.

    -------------------------------------

    Futures for the Dow are down 350 for tomorrow as I type this already, time to start trading turnips on the floor tomorrow. Who will replace GM on the DOW? We may see the bottom tomorrow, but it'll be ugly. Could be one of the biggest drops ever.

    That being said, I'm glad it didn't pass, until the UAW will play ball, let them burn.

  2. #2
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    http://money.cnn.com/data/premarket/

    Gold looks good, don't taste as good as the turnips I mentioned though.

  3. #3
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    10.23.15 @ 04:49 PM
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    The good ol' UAW, they just can't help themselves. My hubby's company asked for and received wage concessions from the Teamster's Union. Non union companies everywhere are doing the same so people can at least keep their jobs and that is much better than unemployment which in Ohio is about to go broke and need financial aid. But not the UAW. Sorry, they will get what they deserve.
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    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:19 AM
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    Hey all this is for show....the new congress wll give them their money next month.

  5. #5
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 05:44 PM
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    If management would step up and take the leadership position and take a pay cut themselves, with none of this deferred salary and bonus and stock option shit that they are so good at padding their pocket with, perhaps the hourly workers would do the same.


    I think most of the hourly workers understand that they need to be competitive with the toyota, hyundai workers, but I've never seen a comparision of executive compensation at these plants, but I bet it would be eye opening.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 05:57 AM
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    The UAW is what is killing the big three. Screw 'em
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  7. #7
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    10.19.17 @ 03:51 PM
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    Have to admit, I agree with a lot of you about the UAW. And yeah, they will eventually get some type of loan.

    The thing that bothers me about this, is that not 2 months ago, $700 Billion was GIVEN with not even a weeks worth of thought (and LIMITED concessions or requirements) to frauds on Wall Street. Yet, $14 Billion as a LOAN (with MAJOR concessions) they have a problem with?! Not to mention that the $14 Billion could potentially go further than just keeping the big 3 in operation. Folks forget about all the parts places that supply the big 3. All the local businesses that don't technically have anything to do with the big 3, yet still majorly depend on their employees (local restaurants, etc.).

    $700 Billion with little strings vs. $14 Billion with a lot? Which passes easily? Which doesn't?

    I'm sorry, but something really smells there. And I'm not saying the auto industry is not at fault, BECAUSE IT IS (and more than just at the corporate level, union has a lot of issues as well). But I just don't get this one. If someone has more specifics that could clarify or back up the decisions, please post (I'm not looking for an argument point, I'm serious - please educate me on this).

  8. #8
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    The people that put on nuts and press buttons get paid an average of 74 bucks an hour. And won't take a pay cut when their employer is about to go under? If it was up to making 20 bucks less an hour or loosing a grossly overpaid job, I'd take a cut. Fuck the union and the dumb ass car companies for paying these yahoos an absurb wage. If they go broke, they did it to themselves. I hope they go under.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    03.07.10 @ 06:18 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuddman5150 View Post
    The people that put on nuts and press buttons get paid an average of 74 bucks an hour. And won't take a pay cut when their employer is about to go under? If it was up to making 20 bucks less an hour or loosing a grossly overpaid job, I'd take a cut. Fuck the union and the dumb ass car companies for paying these yahoos an absurb wage. If they go broke, they did it to themselves. I hope they go under.
    Nobody is getting paid $74 per hour. The average union worker makes around 28 bucks per hour. The figure has been distorted by some reporter with an ax to grind, because it includes the costs of wage, medical benefits and future considerations such as pensions, along with those being paid to people who have already retired.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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    12.06.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    They should halt production until after the inauguration. Goodyear and many other companies do it when inventory far exceeds sales.

    I'm surprised a Fox article places the blame/credit on the Republicans for stopping the deal. A few Dems were against it as well. But the big thing with killing the deal is the fact that no one thinks $14 billion will solve the problem, and bankruptcy is probably inevitable for at least one of the Big 3.

    I have to question Harry's woeful pity party comments as being any help at all today.

    (As an aside, my GM product hit 150,000 miles this week. The lifters are tapping like Gregory Hines and the transmission has always been alarmingly slow to shift, but my 2001 black Chevy is currently getting me around, round, round. )

  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:17 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    Nobody is getting paid $74 per hour. The average union worker makes around 28 bucks per hour. The figure has been distorted by some reporter with an ax to grind, because it includes the costs of wage, medical benefits and future considerations such as pensions, along with those being paid to people who have already retired.
    You have to do the conversion to U.S. dollars but my neighbour, who is my girlfriend's best friend, makes $82000 CDN keeping an assembler supplied with nuts. All she does is ensure he doesn't run out of nuts. True story. Funny story...she was off for her 1 year maternity leave (at 100% pay I might add) and she just returned 2 weeks ago. After a week she was laid off....at 95% of her pay!!! So what's the point of a layoff?

    This is the same girl who won't take a pay cut but thinks that when her plant closes at its scheduled time in 2009 she will just get another job in manufacturing at $80000+. I asker her if she has been listening to the news at all over the past year or so? She doesn't think manufacturing jobs are that hard to find at her pay. Her exact words were, "why would I take a pay cut when I can get a job for the same amount tomorrow?" No wonder the auto industry is sinking.

    I don't disagree that management needs to a little trimming...but the UAW not willing to budge????? Fuck 'em!!!!
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  12. #12
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    I'm just "Joe Six-pack" and a simple guy....but from where I'm sitting, it looks to me like the reason the big three are in trouble is because they make a shit product that no one wants to buy anymore and they just held onto hope that Americans would be lulled back into Hummer-fever again. Simple as that. Sounds like the union has very little to do with it.

    Anyway.....thats how the show looks to me way up here in the nosebleeds.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    I'm just "Joe Six-pack" and a simple guy....but from where I'm sitting, it looks to me like the reason the big three are in trouble is because they make a shit product that no one wants to buy anymore and they just held onto hope that Americans would be lulled back into Hummer-fever again. Simple as that. Sounds like the union has very little to do with it.

    Anyway.....thats how the show looks to me way up here in the nosebleeds.

    Turn off the blinders. Back in the day, US automakers made shit products. No one is denying that. These days, US cars are right on par with any import quality. Read JD Powers and Consumer Reports. The biggest obstacle the US automakers have is getting rid of that reputation, which will take time to do.
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  14. #14
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    10.27.17 @ 06:31 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeoBandit View Post
    Turn off the blinders. Back in the day, US automakers made shit products. No one is denying that. These days, US cars are right on par with any import quality. Read JD Powers and Consumer Reports. The biggest obstacle the US automakers have is getting rid of that reputation, which will take time to do.
    agreed. The American Automakers have really stepped up their quality, especially the last 5 years. They are burning because it costs so much for them to make these cars vs their competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeoBandit View Post
    Turn off the blinders. Back in the day, US automakers made shit products. No one is denying that. These days, US cars are right on par with any import quality. Read JD Powers and Consumer Reports. The biggest obstacle the US automakers have is getting rid of that reputation, which will take time to do.
    So, the quality of the alleged workmanship not withstanding.....we're pretty much in agreement then.
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