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  1. #1
    Sinner's Swing! Jesus H Christ's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 09:58 PM
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    Default Malls are next to face foreclosure

    I have mixed feelings about this. I hate to see people loose their jobs...but....I goddamn HATE malls.




    WASHINGTON - The full scope of the housing meltdown is not clear, and already there are ominous signs of a new crisis -- one that could turn out the lights on malls, hotels and storefronts nationwide.

    Even as the holiday shopping season begins in full swing, the same events poisoning the housing market are now at work on commercial properties, and the bad news is trickling in. Malls from Michigan to Georgia are entering foreclosure.

    Hotels in Tucson, Ariz., and Hilton Head, S.C., also are about to default on their mortgages.

    That pace is expected to quicken. The number of late payments and defaults will double, if not triple, by the end of next year, according to analysts from Fitch Ratings Ltd., which evaluates companies' credit.

    "We're probably in the first inning of the commercial mortgage problem," said Scott Tross, a real estate lawyer with Herrick Feinstein in New Jersey.

    That is bad news for more than just property owners. When businesses go dark, employees lose jobs. Towns lose tax revenue. School budgets and social services feel the pinch.

    Companies have survived plenty of downturns, but economists see this one playing out like never before. In the past, when businesses hit rough patches, owners negotiated with banks or refinanced their loans.

    But many banks no longer hold the loans they made. Over the past decade, banks have increasingly bundled mortgages and sold them to investors. Pension funds, insurance companies and hedge funds bought the seemingly safe securities and are now bracing for losses that could ripple through the financial system.

    "It's a toxic drug, and nobody knows how bad it's going to be," said Paul Miller, an analyst with Friedman, Billings, Ramsey, who was among the first to sound alarm bells in the residential market.

    Unlike home mortgages, businesses do not pay their loans over 30 years. Commercial mortgages are usually written for five, seven or 10 years with big payments due at the end. About $20 billion will be due next year, covering everything from office and condo complexes to hotels and malls.

    The retail outlook is particularly bad. Circuit City and Linens 'n Things have sought bankruptcy protection. Home Depot, Sears, Ann Taylor and Foot Locker are closing stores.

    Those retailers typically were paying rent that was expected to cover mortgage payments. When those $20 billion in mortgages come due next year -- 2010 and 2011 totals are projected to be even higher -- many property owners will not have the money.

    Some will survive, but those property owners whose loans required little money up front will have less incentive to weather the storm.

    Refinancing formerly was an option, but many properties are worth less than when they were purchased. And since investors no longer want to buy commercial mortgages, banks are reluctant to write new loans to refinance those facing foreclosure.

    California, New York, Texas and Florida -- states with a high concentration of mortgages in the securities market, according to Fitch -- are particularly vulnerable. Texas and Florida are already seeing increased delinquencies and defaults, as are Michigan, Tennessee and Georgia.

    The worst-case scenario goes something like this: With banks unwilling to refinance, a shopping center goes into foreclosure. Nobody can buy the mall because banks will not write mortgages as long as investors will not purchase them.

    "Credit markets have seized up," corporate securities lawyer Michael Gambro said. "People are not willing to take risks. They're not buying anything."

    That drives down investments already on the books. Insurance companies are seeing their stock prices fall on fears they are too invested in commercial mortgages.

    "The system has never been tested for a deep recession," said Ken Rosen, a real estate hedge fund manager and University of California at Berkeley professor of real estate economics.
    "The less I needed, the better I felt." ~ Charles Bukowski.

  2. #2
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 06:57 PM
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    Nothing worse than a derelict mall. Used to be one on the corner of Military Trail and Okeechobee when I lived in West Palm Beach. They've since fixed it up nicely, but for awhile there it was NASTY! Near empty, dark and foreboding - only went in there because they occasionally hosted sports collectible shows.

  3. #3
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    There was a blurb on the local news on this last month about a chain of malls, some of which are in Central Florida, that was looking down the barrel of having to close down.

    Seems most of the 'older' malls are relatively safe, but these newer, as I call them, "designer" malls are the ones that are most susceptible. What's a shame is a lot of the older malls have already closed their doors and some have already met the wrecking ball. As I recall, there are a number of these older malls down in Broward County that are basically sitting vacant (I believe the Fashion Square mall was still there, but vacant the last I had heard), but chef could speak better to that than I. Once again, progress...
    Last edited by VanHalenRules; 12.04.08 at 06:32 AM.
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
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    There's a mall right down the street from me that has been dying for the last 3 or 4 years. Occupancy is well under fifty percent at this point. For awhile when a store would close they would put another occupant's merchandise in the window to advertise for that still open store elsewhere in the mall. Now, they have run out of stores to fill the empty windows.

    It's kind of sad really. It was "my mall" growing up and I would always do my Christmas shopping there. Now there are so few stores worth going to, I'm not sure why I should even bother this year. The foodcourt is downright embarrassing. It has a Sbarros, McDonalds, Subway, a Greek place, and a Chinese/Cajun place. I feel bad, because McDonalds gets all the business, while the smaller stores (the Chinese/Cajun and Greek places) just sit there waiting for a customer...while people are waiting in line at McDonalds (It should be noted there is another McDonalds less than a mile up the road).

    It's creepy to walk into a mall and see more employees than customers. I thought the mall would close after last Christmas, but somehow it stayed afloat. Now I can't even imagine it staying open by February. It's a bummer
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  5. #5
    Future's in the past....
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    Nothing worse than a derelict mall. Used to be one on the corner of Military Trail and Okeechobee when I lived in West Palm Beach. They've since fixed it up nicely, but for awhile there it was NASTY! Near empty, dark and foreboding - only went in there because they occasionally hosted sports collectible shows.
    Cross County Mall. Only ventured in there for the occasional Midnight movie and to hit the arcade nearby the theater. Oh, and they did have some cool collectible shows, sports and otherwise.

    Now I'm getting that creepy feeling I get when chef mentions he used to be at the same places I was at nearly the same time.
    Last edited by VanHalenRules; 12.04.08 at 06:31 AM.
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  6. #6
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 03:42 AM
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    They just tore down the mall that is in my hometown. Although it wasn't due to this economy, it has been suffering and losing stores for the past 15 years.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  7. #7
    Hot For Teacher
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    11.10.14 @ 10:06 AM
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    One of the malls I remember going to as a kid because they had a cool arcade fell apart over the years. They kept loosing stores and it became a pretty sad and dangerous place. So they tore it down and built one of the biggest Wal Marts in the area with other shops and restaraunts around it. It's a pretty nice shopping area again, but I miss that cool little arcade.
    Face Down in Cabo!

  8. #8
    Eruption Yerfdog's Avatar
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    11.06.14 @ 05:13 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboBrian View Post
    One of the malls I remember going to as a kid because they had a cool arcade fell apart over the years. They kept loosing stores and it became a pretty sad and dangerous place. So they tore it down and built one of the biggest Wal Marts in the area with other shops and restaraunts around it. It's a pretty nice shopping area again, but I miss that cool little arcade.
    That makes two malls within our area (Blue Ridge and Bannister) that have gone out of business in the last few years.

    What really stuns me is that strip malls are continuing to be built by the bucketload, and once they're finished, they sit there empty. Inconceivable!
    I swear, it's like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids or somethin'. You nerve-wrackin' sons-a-bitches.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default

    Malls = Suburban Sprawl Dinosaurs...

    http://www.deadmalls.com/
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    Malls = Suburban Sprawl Dinosaurs...

    http://www.deadmalls.com/
    LOL. My brother wrote an article on there about the mall I was talking about. Hilarious
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  11. #11
    Future's in the past....
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    Malls = Suburban Sprawl Dinosaurs...

    http://www.deadmalls.com/

    That was kind of cool, thanks. I remember quite well both the 163rd St Mall and the Omni down in Miami. Strange to read that the Omni structure is still there, yet vacant. It was a miniature version of the Mall of America before the Mall of America existed.
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  12. #12
    Hot For Teacher
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    Malls = Suburban Sprawl Dinosaurs...

    http://www.deadmalls.com/
    Interesting site! I have fond memories of both Blue Ridge and Bannister malls. We lived closest to the Independence Center so that is where we went most often. It was always a treat to go to one of the other malls.

    I haven't been to Metro North mall in a long time, but I thought it was still a thriving mall with lots of shops. According to this site, it's pretty much dead.
    Face Down in Cabo!

  13. #13
    Eruption Yerfdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboBrian View Post
    Interesting site! I have fond memories of both Blue Ridge and Bannister malls. We lived closest to the Independence Center so that is where we went most often. It was always a treat to go to one of the other malls.

    I haven't been to Metro North mall in a long time, but I thought it was still a thriving mall with lots of shops. According to this site, it's pretty much dead.
    Yeah, Metro North has been slow for quite a while. What do you expect, though, having 3 or more malls within 20 miles of each other. Simply put, it was excess.
    I swear, it's like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids or somethin'. You nerve-wrackin' sons-a-bitches.

  14. #14
    Eruption
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    Dying malls are sad, so are dying movie theatres and aging rock stars

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulGirl5150 View Post
    Dying malls are sad, so are dying movie theatres and aging rock stars
    Anyone else remember the good old days when you went to a movie and it was an enjoyable experience? More often than not, it was a single screen or perhaps a twin screen theater. You never heard the sound from the theater next door, the employees were friendly and, if lucky, the place featured those comfy "rocking chair" seats.
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