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  1. #1
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    07.11.09 @ 03:27 AM
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    Default From Freedom to Fascism

    Have been consumed by this documentary after discovering it a few days ago.
    A film that started as an investigation into income tax law turned into an expose
    on the the politics of power and the very nature of our capitalist system.
    I challenge everyone to watch the entire thing (11 clips on Youtube) and tell
    me I'm wrong in doing the least I could do by starting this little thread here:


  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    Agreed. Fantastic film and you're right...it's pretty amazing how his original intent for the subject matter took a major turn the more he looked into things.

    I liked his more restrained style than most of the guys making films like this - much easier to take him seriously than when some guy is bullhorning or foaming at the mouth ranting.

    Makes for quite uncomfortable viewing................

    How's paradise in fuckit anyway?
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 03:35 PM
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    Default

    I have been hearing for years about the illegality of the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution.Iam not a lawyer but I know that this has been challenged many times in lower courts and most recently by Wesley Snipes. No one ever wins, failure to file because the IRS is in itself illegal to collect wages because it is not a proper goverment entity due to the fact the 16th Amendment is unconstitutional. Now if you could get a case to go to the Supreme Court who knows but there is a snowballs chance in hell they would hear it. But if it were to happen the lawyer that argues the case and wins would become an American hero.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Viking's Avatar
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    11.02.17 @ 09:45 PM
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    Default

    I've gotten through parts 1 and 2. Interesting stuff, to say the least.

    Apparently when you have enough resources, they don't even need for there to be a law. I've always felt that the IRS was the Gestapo of the United States. Who watches over them?
    "Viking - last to sleep, first to rise, last to leave, that's how the Nords of old rocked the house." ~ timmac in the 'Texas Linkers' thread talking about yours truly. :-)

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Russo made this movie after he had a bunch of tax leans placed on his property in California. Had he just paid his taxes like a grown-up he wouldn't have hd any problems.

    The 16th Amendment is clear:

    Amendment XVI
    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

    That would be the 16th amendment to the Constitution, which makes collecting taxes constitutional ('cuz it's in the constitution 'n stuff)
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  6. #6
    Good Enough wombattt's Avatar
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    05.23.17 @ 01:16 PM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    Russo made this movie after he had a bunch of tax leans placed on his property in California. Had he just paid his taxes like a grown-up he wouldn't have hd any problems.

    The 16th Amendment is clear:



    That would be the 16th amendment to the Constitution, which makes collecting taxes constitutional ('cuz it's in the constitution 'n stuff)
    Yep...Constitutional = what is written in the U.S. Constitution.


    BTW Facism is:

    a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

    b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

    Oppressive, dictatorial control.


    Both of these definitions doesn't apply in the U.S.A. or haven't since the Mcarthy era (that is a joke....sort of).....

    Facism is one of those words/concepts that gets very blury when combined with historical memory and historical legend....



    ...call me a Professor....cuz I am one.




    some interesting background stuff on Fasicsm

    ETYMOLOGY:
    Italian fascismo, from fascio, group, from Late Latin fascium, from Latin fascis, bundle


    WORD HISTORY:

    It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, "bundle, (political) group," but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism
    Last edited by wombattt; 10.20.08 at 06:02 PM.
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  7. #7
    Super Duper Frontman track 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombattt View Post
    Yep...Constitutional = what is written in the U.S. Constitution.


    BTW Facism is:

    a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

    b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

    Oppressive, dictatorial control.


    Both of these definitions doesn't apply in the U.S.A. or haven't since the Mcarthy era (that is a joke....sort of).....

    Facism is one of those words/concepts that gets very blury when combined with historical memory and historical legend....



    ...call me a Professor....cuz I am one.




    some interesting background stuff on Fasicsm

    ETYMOLOGY:
    Italian fascismo, from fascio, group, from Late Latin fascium, from Latin fascis, bundle


    WORD HISTORY:

    It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, "bundle, (political) group," but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism

    So let me get this correct here. You actually know your shit on these matters. Works for me. Out.
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  8. #8
    Baluchitherium
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    12.13.17 @ 02:13 AM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wombattt View Post
    BTW Facism is:

    <snip>

    Facism is one of those words/concepts that gets very blury when combined with historical memory and historical legend....


    ...call me a Professor....cuz I am one.
    Okay Professor... Another thing Fascism is: It's spelled "Fascism".



    I'm just messin' wif ya'!

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    Default

    It's abit alarming that you need to be a professor to know the definition and the background of fascism.

    A side note - fascism doesn't become such overnight. Another fun fact - Hitler came to power in a very legal way. Then he started making constitutional amendments.

  10. #10
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    07.11.09 @ 03:27 AM
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    Default

    Um, yeah. Did anyone besides Graeme and Vike actually watch the thing yet?

    1. Cases for not filing have been won. Watch the movie.
    2. The Supreme Court ruled that the 16th Amendment "holds no new power
    to tax" or words to that effect. Watch the movie.
    3. The tax issue as stated in the 1st post, becomes secondary to the more
    dire implications of The Federal Reserve. Watch the movie. Given what we
    now know about how the fed just sort of decided all the taxpayers excluded
    on the way up are now liable for the bailout, I would think maybe it's time
    for a closer look.
    4. I would also hope that professors not only know how to spell 'fascism', but
    also know how many dots in an elipses.
    Last edited by mistere; 10.21.08 at 03:29 AM.

  11. #11
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombattt View Post
    The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism
    You've unwittingly provided a synopsis of the film. Way to go, pro.

    Look, the point is not to debate semantics or shoot the messenger, but that there are a number of socialist trends afoot that do parallel
    a demise into fascist waters. Or taken from one of many poignant quotes in the film "Fascism is democracy in decay". This is actually the
    synopsis of the film and what I was more keen to discuss. Discuss.
    Last edited by mistere; 10.21.08 at 03:53 AM.

  12. #12
    Good Enough wombattt's Avatar
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    05.23.17 @ 01:16 PM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasVic View Post
    Okay Professor... Another thing Fascism is: It's spelled "Fascism".



    I'm just messin' wif ya'!
    Alright!...this is why we have aids to proof read....really spelling or in my case mis-spelling is the bane of (most) scholarship.
    "Always hopeful, yet discontent,
    He knows changes aren't permanent
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  13. #13
    Good Enough wombattt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistere View Post
    "Fascism is democracy in decay". This is actually the synopsis of the film and what I was more keen to discuss. Discuss.
    You know what your right....I would love to engage in this type of discussion.
    "Always hopeful, yet discontent,
    He knows changes aren't permanent
    But change is!"

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 01:41 PM
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    Default

    Its simple when you think about it. Most people here are in their 30-50 range. Do we have more freedoms today than we had 15-20 years ago? I think not.

    Both the far left and right have put us on this path. Unfortunately it will take all of us in the middle to get us out.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    What freedoms have we lost exactly?

    I my black friends can now vote without the KKK showing up and I can date a black woman or asian woman or whatever race or color I get lucky with and I don't have to worry about losing my job or status in the community.

    I can still speak ill of the government without fear of secret police.

    I can still watch/download porn.

    I can still drink beer.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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