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  1. #1
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    12.10.17 @ 09:14 PM
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    $700 BILLION BAILOUT is NOT a LIMIT, BUT a "Rolling" Limit

    http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/w...lan-means/5149

    They aren’t even hiding it anymore. I’m speaking of course about our government’s propensity to cover up the darkness and paint everything as if the light was coming from the sun itself rather than a horrid blinky fluorescent tube. The latest bailout proposes to allow the federal government to spend up to $700 billion for purchasing bad debt from “mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.”

    They have already modified the “having its headquarters in the United States” rule, saying that foreign companies with a presence in the United States are eligible for the bailouts as well. Well that should make those of us worried about U.S. sovereignty a bit uneasy. Of course that is now the least of our worries.

    Also, the wording of the bailout proposal should make anyone concerned about federal government overreach quake in their boots. This bailout has been described as the Patriot Act for the financial sector. How can such a claim have merit? Well, let’s look at the proposal in more detail.


    First the wording of the proposed limit of $700 billion shows that it is not a limit at all. The text reads the bailout “shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time.” This means that the bailout is truly unlimited. As Chris Martenson describes in his great article regarding the proposal:

    Whoa! Stop! What is this “at any one time” language?? This means that $700 billion is NOT the cost of this dangerous legislation, it is only the amount that can be outstanding at any one time. After, say, $100 billion of bad mortgages are disposed of, another $100 billion can be bought. In short, these four little words assure that there is NO LIMIT to the potential size of this bailout. This means that $700 billion is a rolling amount, not a ceiling.

    So what happens when you have vague language and an unlimited budget? Fraud and self-dealing. Mark my words, this is the largest looting operation ever in the history of the US, and it’s all spelled out right in this delightfully brief document that is about to be rammed through a scared Congress and made into law.

    The proposal gets worse. Here is where it starts sounding like the Patriot Act:

    Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

    How is that for some power? Hopefully this provision will not be in the final bill. This is proof they aren’t even hiding their thirst for power anymore. If this makes you squirm you aren’t the only one.

    As if that wasn’t enough, we have to have some fascism mixed in with our socialism right? Try this part of the proposal on for size:

    Necessary Actions.–The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:…

    designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

    Well I suppose if the government is bailing them out the government should be able to use them as “financial agents of the Government”.

    Is this as hard for you to swallow as it is for me? The sad truth is that the final bill will likely get worse after it spins through Congress attracting more special interest provisions from both sides in the name of compromise. I’m willing to bet right now that the final bill will up the $700 billion rolling limit to a higher number. If not, I will be pleasantly surprised.

    I keep reading about how the alternative to the bailout would be much worse. I keep hearing this “we are helping main street” narrative from the supporters of the bailout. To me this is hogwash. Ron Paul said it best yesterday on CNN when he said that without the bailout we’d “have a bad year” but with the bailouts it “will be a bad decade”.
    Last edited by The Rover; 09.21.08 at 11:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Viking's Avatar
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    11.02.17 @ 09:45 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rover View Post
    http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/w...lan-means/5149



    They have already modified the “having its headquarters in the United States” rule, saying that foreign companies with a presence in the United States are eligible for the bailouts as well. Well that should make those of us worried about U.S. sovereignty a bit uneasy. Of course that is now the least of our worries.

    Also, the wording of the bailout proposal should make anyone concerned about federal government overreach quake in their boots. This bailout has been described as the Patriot Act for the financial sector. How can such a claim have merit? Well, let’s look at the proposal in more detail.


    First the wording of the proposed limit of $700 billion shows that it is not a limit at all. The text reads the bailout “shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time.” This means that the bailout is truly unlimited. As Chris Martenson describes in his great article regarding the proposal:

    Whoa! Stop! What is this “at any one time” language?? This means that $700 billion is NOT the cost of this dangerous legislation, it is only the amount that can be outstanding at any one time. After, say, $100 billion of bad mortgages are disposed of, another $100 billion can be bought. In short, these four little words assure that there is NO LIMIT to the potential size of this bailout. This means that $700 billion is a rolling amount, not a ceiling.

    So what happens when you have vague language and an unlimited budget? Fraud and self-dealing. Mark my words, this is the largest looting operation ever in the history of the US, and it’s all spelled out right in this delightfully brief document that is about to be rammed through a scared Congress and made into law.

    The proposal gets worse. Here is where it starts sounding like the Patriot Act:

    Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

    How is that for some power? Hopefully this provision will not be in the final bill. This is proof they aren’t even hiding their thirst for power anymore. If this makes you squirm you aren’t the only one.

    As if that wasn’t enough, we have to have some fascism mixed in with our socialism right? Try this part of the proposal on for size:

    Necessary Actions.–The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:…

    designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

    Well I suppose if the government is bailing them out the government should be able to use them as “financial agents of the Government”.

    Is this as hard for you to swallow as it is for me? The sad truth is that the final bill will likely get worse after it spins through Congress attracting more special interest provisions from both sides in the name of compromise. I’m willing to bet right now that the final bill will up the $700 billion rolling limit to a higher number. If not, I will be pleasantly surprised.

    I keep reading about how the alternative to the bailout would be much worse. I keep hearing this “we are helping main street” narrative from the supporters of the bailout. To me this is hogwash. Ron Paul said it best yesterday on CNN when he said that without the bailout we’d “have a bad year” but with the bailouts it “will be a bad decade”.
    The U. S. Government tends to reward two kinds of people, rich greedy people and poor lazy people. I do not fall into either of these categories.

    I'm tired of Corporate Joe dining on fine whine and caviar with me footing the bill, and I'm tired of Welfare Jim Bob sitting on his ass in his shanty, because he supposedly has a bad back, and cant' work, so I'm working for him.

    I wonder if the Government would bail me out if I decided to go buy a nice house, nice car, new furniture, latest greatest big screen TV, and generally lived beyond my means. Not going to happen. If I figured out a way to pull all of that off, without actually having the money, I would go to prison for a few years and my girlfriends name would be Bubba. Not these assholes, they get a nice bailout.

    Does anybody out there believe after all of these bailouts, that the person that becomes President is going to be able to lower taxes? Quit living in the dream land, and come back to reality.
    "Viking - last to sleep, first to rise, last to leave, that's how the Nords of old rocked the house." ~ timmac in the 'Texas Linkers' thread talking about yours truly. :-)

  3. #3
    Future's in the past....
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    This only deepens my concern that we aren't heading for a recession, but a depression.
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  4. #4
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    01.06.12 @ 02:10 PM
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    I have some "mugs" in our camping gear....should be great to line up for our daily ration of soup....

    I'm so pissed at all of this. I mean COME ON the leaders at these companies knew exactly what was going on.... greed greed greed.... it's the bottom line here.

    And if this rolling bailout is taking place then guess what- I don't care if you elect Jesus Christ himself to the white house... we're going to pay for all of this in .....taxes.

    I was hearing this morning that they were going to tax the company leaders that made more than $1 million - great, then what? Unless you have spit polished credit you aren't going to be able to get any kind of loan at a decent % rate. And is that a million salary or the incentive pay they were getting on top of salary?

    All these houses sitting on the market aren't going anywhere for awhile. Car loans?

    When we bought this house 7 yrs ago, the bank told us we qualified for like $650,000 for a home loan... with a jumbo mortgage on top of the lending amount. My husband and I looked at each other and said, no thanks.

    Thank goodness, we bought a great house, great neighborhood at a low price. We could sell it and still come out on top even in this market.
    But seriously, there is no way we could handle a $650 K mortgage .... and pay bills, food, gas ect.... it would be GASP living beyond our means. And plain old stupid!

    I';m just pissed, we did the right thing, we pay bills & taxes, my husband works his butt off, and we're getting stuck with this son of a bitch bail out bill.

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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    12.07.17 @ 02:51 PM
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    I want to know where the hell the govt is going to get $700 billion. Last I checked, we have a deficit of over $2 trillion.
    "What we are dealing with here, is a complete lack of respect for the law" - Jackie Gleason, Smokey and the Bandit

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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk
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    12.07.17 @ 12:54 PM
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    How We Became the United States of France
    This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs — and votes — are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future where too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national healthcare? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food.

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...0.html?cnn=yes
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    12.07.17 @ 12:54 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeoBandit View Post
    I want to know where the hell the govt is going to get $700 billion. Last I checked, we have a deficit of over $2 trillion.
    They'll just make it 2.7 trillion now...
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    They'll just make it 2.7 trillion now...
    Yeah, once you get into the trillions....well- a few billion more is nothing, right?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    How We Became the United States of France
    This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs — and votes — are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future where too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national healthcare? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food.

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...0.html?cnn=yes
    Hell, I might move to France.... the food & wine are incredible and I could walk and take public transportation where ever I needed to go~!
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  10. #10
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 10:00 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVHgirl in Va View Post
    I have some "mugs" in our camping gear....should be great to line up for our daily ration of soup....

    I'm so pissed at all of this. I mean COME ON the leaders at these companies knew exactly what was going on.... greed greed greed.... it's the bottom line here.

    And if this rolling bailout is taking place then guess what- I don't care if you elect Jesus Christ himself to the white house... we're going to pay for all of this in .....taxes.

    I was hearing this morning that they were going to tax the company leaders that made more than $1 million - great, then what? Unless you have spit polished credit you aren't going to be able to get any kind of loan at a decent % rate. And is that a million salary or the incentive pay they were getting on top of salary?

    All these houses sitting on the market aren't going anywhere for awhile. Car loans?

    When we bought this house 7 yrs ago, the bank told us we qualified for like $650,000 for a home loan... with a jumbo mortgage on top of the lending amount. My husband and I looked at each other and said, no thanks.

    Thank goodness, we bought a great house, great neighborhood at a low price. We could sell it and still come out on top even in this market.
    But seriously, there is no way we could handle a $650 K mortgage .... and pay bills, food, gas ect.... it would be GASP living beyond our means. And plain old stupid!

    I';m just pissed, we did the right thing, we pay bills & taxes, my husband works his butt off, and we're getting stuck with this son of a bitch bail out bill.

    I heard that too, the comment was by Barney Frank. He said since some of the people who caused this debacle were rich that everyone who makes over $1million a year should have a tax added to them to help pay for this.
    Yeah great fuckin idea. It is amazing that these are the same people we have elected and trusted to handle our money. What a joke.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    compared to the other major expenditure that's choking the American government (a certain war), this is money very well spent.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVHgirl in Va View Post
    Yeah, once you get into the trillions....well- a few billion more is nothing, right?
    It's working for us in Iraq!!
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  13. #13
    Eruption Dr5115's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 09:51 PM
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    This didn't happen overnight, take the war and the bailout out of this. Ross Perot was on to something back in the early 90's. Our country's financial situation has been heading down the wrong road for a long time. Looking at the financial bailout alone, there has been many many wrong turns taken that has led to the current situaiton.

    Creating wealth through paper can only go on for so long. At some point a product or good has to be produced and sold for a profit. Most of our "American" money is going to China and the middle east.

    At some point in the future the dollar will probably cease to exist. A common currency similiar to the Euro will take it's place.

    But who the hell knows, this will be interesting.

  14. #14
    Eruption
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    Ron Paul has said we've been going broke for some time now too. It's funny that people like Perot and Paul are out there telling us this, but we blow them off as whackos and doomsday-sayers.
    Your favorite band sucks.

  15. #15
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.27.17 @ 06:31 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVHgirl in Va View Post
    When we bought this house 7 yrs ago, the bank told us we qualified for like $650,000 for a home loan... with a jumbo mortgage on top of the lending amount. My husband and I looked at each other and said, no thanks.
    Exactly, it's about self control and knowing your limits. When I bought my first house (the one I live in now) in 2005, I qualified for 500K. I make a good living, but a single 26 year old guy should not qualify for a home like that, just seemed ridiculous. I bought this house for 300, more than I wanted to spend, but I fell in love with it. If I had bought a 500K house, I'd be sweating, of course Uncle Sam would bail me out I guess.

 

 

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