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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default Britain Adopts Islamic Law, Gives Sharia Courts Full Power to Rule on Civil Cases

    ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

    The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

    Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

    Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

    It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

    Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4749183.ece
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  2. #2
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    a really stupid decision.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    What a bullshit

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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Welcome to the world of alternative dispute resolution. Yellow journalism like this does little to inform the reader. It's worthless.

  5. #5
    Good Enough VH Wahoo's Avatar
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    08.31.15 @ 02:01 PM
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    Ridiculous.

    Kiss Britain's proverbial butt goodbye. Sharia creep at its worst.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk
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    Good Enough pal1800's Avatar
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    Maybe we should all convert now and avoid the blood loss.

  8. #8
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 09:41 AM
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    Whilst the idea of a dual-legal system is ridiculous and bad for any country, just a slow read of this article proves that this is nothing new at all. In fact, this kind of decision making has been going on for decades with various groups. The key sentence in this article, hidden away(but it's there) is..

    "The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case. "

    This is not just exclusive to Muslims, but to anyone who enters into this kind of agreement. In civil matters and very minor criminal cases this is a sensible way to ease the strain on an already crumbling legal system.

    Domestic violence is not a small issue but, and this is very important, the same standards apply to all in the UK. If a charge is made against an assailant it would be taken to a full court but very often these matters are resolved without full legal procedure.

    One side could see this as communities taking care of themselves on a micro level and that, in itself, is not always a bad thing.

    Of course, the other argument is that this is the beginning of a slippery slope, leading to full Sharia law operating alongside British law.

    The alarmists would tell you it is the second and I for one would be appalled that such a thing could happen but I guarantee the first time a serious criminal act is committed and is hidden away and dealt with by a Sharia court in absolute contravention of British law, and then exposed, the courts will jump all over it.

    No one is outside the law of the land where they reside (well, except politicians and the clergy) and I don't doubt for one second that this will change any time soon because of religious or other beliefs.

    From the point of view of civil cases though - good. This is an idea that has worked in the past and has continued to work.

    It is also very important to remember that, whilst a member of the broadsheet "intelligent" mainstream press, the Telegraph is a notoriously right wing paper - so much so that it used to have the nickname "The Torygraph".
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme View Post
    In fact, this kind of decision making has been going on for decades with various groups. The key sentence in this article, hidden away(but it's there) is..

    "The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case. "

    This is not just exclusive to Muslims, but to anyone who enters into this kind of agreement. In civil matters and very minor criminal cases this is a sensible way to ease the strain on an already crumbling legal system.

    Yep, same thing here in the States...

    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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  10. #10
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme View Post
    Whilst the idea of a dual-legal system is ridiculous and bad for any country, just a slow read of this article proves that this is nothing new at all. In fact, this kind of decision making has been going on for decades with various groups. The key sentence in this article, hidden away(but it's there) is..

    "The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case. "

    This is not just exclusive to Muslims, but to anyone who enters into this kind of agreement. In civil matters and very minor criminal cases this is a sensible way to ease the strain on an already crumbling legal system.

    Domestic violence is not a small issue but, and this is very important, the same standards apply to all in the UK. If a charge is made against an assailant it would be taken to a full court but very often these matters are resolved without full legal procedure.

    One side could see this as communities taking care of themselves on a micro level and that, in itself, is not always a bad thing.

    Of course, the other argument is that this is the beginning of a slippery slope, leading to full Sharia law operating alongside British law.

    The alarmists would tell you it is the second and I for one would be appalled that such a thing could happen but I guarantee the first time a serious criminal act is committed and is hidden away and dealt with by a Sharia court in absolute contravention of British law, and then exposed, the courts will jump all over it.

    No one is outside the law of the land where they reside (well, except politicians and the clergy) and I don't doubt for one second that this will change any time soon because of religious or other beliefs.

    From the point of view of civil cases though - good. This is an idea that has worked in the past and has continued to work.

    It is also very important to remember that, whilst a member of the broadsheet "intelligent" mainstream press, the Telegraph is a notoriously right wing paper - so much so that it used to have the nickname "The Torygraph".
    I understand what you are saying but in the US, there are times when the courts override situations being handled by the clergy such as in domestic violence cases. If someone is hit and they do not press charges, the state will because often times the person being abused is afraid of retaliation. It takes it out of the victims control. With the suppression of women in the Muslim community, these types of rulings can not possibly be in their favor.

    Also, I'm not understanding if what you are saying is true, it was already by free will then why do they need this

    Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.
    So now it means that it's no longer voluntary? Whether you agree with Sharia law or not you are bound by it? Again, I'm thinking not a good situation for women. As in the case they mentioned, unequal division of property would not be a good thing either.
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  11. #11
    Baluchitherium
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    this country is going to shit....did any of you hear about certain subway stores not selling ham or bacon anymore because of the halal laws! it seems to me that england is coming closer to being an islamic state every fucking day, they are getting their own way with regards to everything, civil law, food...they can say pretty much what they want without fear of reprisal, if a white heterosexual male englishman so much as looks funny at an arab in an airport we're racists, yet they are free to tell us we're evil if we eat a bacon butty!!!
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  12. #12
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 09:41 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    I understand what you are saying but in the US, there are times when the courts override situations being handled by the clergy such as in domestic violence cases. If someone is hit and they do not press charges, the state will because often times the person being abused is afraid of retaliation. It takes it out of the victims control. With the suppression of women in the Muslim community, these types of rulings can not possibly be in their favor.

    Also, I'm not understanding if what you are saying is true, it was already by free will then why do they need this



    So now it means that it's no longer voluntary? Whether you agree with Sharia law or not you are bound by it? Again, I'm thinking not a good situation for women. As in the case they mentioned, unequal division of property would not be a good thing either.

    Sorry, my quote and edit skills are none too good, so I hope this gets everything.
    The law in the UK is the same as the states. In domestic violence cases, if there is serious harm or danger, the law can and does step in, though perhaps not as often as it should.
    With respect to the freewill bit: This was the newspaper playing silly buggers with wording and naming of things. Though these situations will be called Sharia, what is actually happening is that, as in all cases, they are still courts of voluntary arbitration. It is just the name that has changed so that now, instead of it being enforceable as a court of arbitration, it will now be considered enforceable as a Sharia court, BUT, you would have to agree to the arbitration being legally binding.
    Different name, exactly the same legal situation. Still voluntary since the plaintiff will of course still have the British legal system, which is binding over all other courts in the UK.

    Here's an example: If you buy a lottery ticket and agree with someone that if you win you will share the money and you have intent to create legal relations, you have entered into an agreement, outside of the court justice system that is enforceable by law, because of both your intent and agreement. If you do not abide by this agreement, you can be taken then onto the main court system. This actually happened in the UK.

    Like I said, the journalism is pretty shoddy and is creating a fuss about something that has been true for years. It is fear mongering of a very sinister kind since it is correct and factual but ignores or clouds key points.
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho5150 View Post
    this country is going to shit....did any of you hear about certain subway stores not selling ham or bacon anymore because of the halal laws! it seems to me that england is coming closer to being an islamic state every fucking day, they are getting their own way with regards to everything, civil law, food...they can say pretty much what they want without fear of reprisal, if a white heterosexual male englishman so much as looks funny at an arab in an airport we're racists, yet they are free to tell us we're evil if we eat a bacon butty!!!
    Um. Fuck them.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    I dont think multiculturalism works. Time will tell. Dont think Churchill would go for that crap .

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    There's a delicious mix of ignorance and bigotry going on here. Tasty!

    This is just another form of alternative dispute resolution. ADR is very common, at least in the States. That's a result of our legal/judicial system not always being the best way to resolve a dispute. There are many reasons for that.

    In the US, mediation and arbitration are often available so that people have an opportunity to avoid going to court. Same with settlements. How often does a person hear about something being settled?

    Graeme hit on the only important sentence in that article, and nobody else seems to have paid it any attention. It's more gratifying to become hysterical, I suppose. I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US courts often approve settlement agreements. Arbitration rulings can be appealed through the court system, though that can be difficult to do.

    If the parties involved want to go through arbitration and agree on an arbitrator, who's business is it who they pick?

 

 

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