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  1. #1
    Banned! The Dude's Avatar
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    11.09.08 @ 08:18 AM
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    Default Here's a stupid question.....

    I got a 5150 combo. If I'm right on top of it, right in front of it so to speak, it sounds like crap. If I back off a bit, literally almost out of the room, it sounds great to me. I've never experienced this with any other amp before. Am I out of my mind? Are my ears playing tricks on me? Is the reverb in the room causing this? It is a small room, (small bedroom) but I don't have the amp cranked, 3 or 4 at the most. I play my line6 spider in the same room and it sounds fine up close.

    Seems crazy to me, because if I wanted to record, the mike would I'm assuming be right in front of the speakers? I'm nowhere near the musician you folks here are so I figure I've come to the right place to ask this.

    Sorry if it's a toatally stupid question. Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I got a 5150 combo. If I'm right on top of it, right in front of it so to speak, it sounds like crap. If I back off a bit, literally almost out of the room, it sounds great to me. I've never experienced this with any other amp before. Am I out of my mind? Are my ears playing tricks on me? Is the reverb in the room causing this? It is a small room, (small bedroom) but I don't have the amp cranked, 3 or 4 at the most. I play my line6 spider in the same room and it sounds fine up close.

    Seems crazy to me, because if I wanted to record, the mike would I'm assuming be right in front of the speakers? I'm nowhere near the musician you folks here are so I figure I've come to the right place to ask this.

    Sorry if it's a toatally stupid question. Thoughts?
    First of all, congrats on getting an excellent amp!

    And also, welcome to the world of 5150's!!!! What you are describing is a common problem among 5150 owners it seems. It took me a few months to get mine to the point where I really liked the sound of it. Then once I got my second 5150 combo, it had a slightly different tone to it, so I had to do even more adjusting til I liked it. Here is the problem; you must adjust the amp's tone while sitting either with your ear right in front of the speakers (not recommended ) or with your mic set up and listening through the monitors or headphones. Even if you stand in front of it, the speakers are pointing directly at your shins, so the tone down there in the 'hot spot' will be completely different than up where your head is. The 5150's speakers are EXTREMELY directional, and not very forgiving if you don't spend the time adjusting your amp.

    Here is what I would recommend:

    Buy an attenuator. I use a Weber Mass Lite 100 Watt and it is excellent, and only $160! That rather small investment will make you very happy, since the 5150 WILL NOT SOUND OPTIMUM AT ANY POST LEVEL UNDER ~4.5, (depending on your power tubes, give or take .5). Having said that, you can get a really decent tone from the 1-3 post range, but if you are looking for authentic EVH sound, don't count on getting it that quiet. The sweet spot of the amp is about 5-6 for the combo (I know you 5150 head owners would say about 6-7 for the head, but there is a slight difference).

    Retube the amp. Your amp probably has Electro-Harmonics preamp tubes, or worse -- chinese preamp tubes. That will make the amp sound very harsh, especially at lower volume levels. I use JJ ECC83s tubes (from Eurotubes.com -- highly recommended). You will also probably find some no-name or whatever power tubes in your amp. These are not as important to the tone of the 5150, but if they are really old and worn out, replace them. Power tube blowouts can be nasty for your amp. Again, JJ 6L6GCs are great.

    What settings are you using right now? If you post them all, I could probably help you get the tone you are looking for. Who do you want to sound like most? (Unless you are specifically going for the EVH Balance tone, the 5150 is fairly easy to tweak once you understand it.)
    Last edited by mrjstudios; 08.24.08 at 01:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Banned! The Dude's Avatar
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    Wow man great reply and thank you.

    I'm not looking for any specific sound...just an all around good hard rock/classic rock/ somewhat VH sound. Make sense? I'm not trying to dial in any specific setting, I'm just a weekend musician looking to get the best out of what I have. My settings right now that I am using....

    Bass 8.5
    Mid 5.5
    High 4.5 or 4
    Reverb 5
    Reso 4
    Presence 4


    I'm playing on the low gain input, and my lead pre is 7, I like it crunchy. The High gain is too noisy for me. Like I said, I like the sound if I stand out of the room, but if I'm right in front of it, it for some reason sounds thin.

    Anyway, thanks for your input, and anymore would be appreciated. It's just nice to know other are dealing with this too, and I'm not crazy.

    Edit: oh I put new tubes in myself about six months ago. I know the power tubes were JJ's, but I don't remember what brand the others were. I didn't think I would need a pro to do this or am I out of my mind? Just seemed like changing a lightbulb basically. Of course, I changed the correct tube for the correct tube, IE, 12ax7 for 12ax7. Thanks again.
    Last edited by The Dude; 08.24.08 at 02:52 PM.

  4. #4
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    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Wow man great reply and thank you.

    I'm not looking for any specific sound...just an all around good hard rock/classic rock/ somewhat VH sound. Make sense? I'm not trying to dial in any specific setting, I'm just a weekend musician looking to get the best out of what I have. My settings right now that I am using....

    Bass 8.5
    Mid 5.5
    High 4.5 or 4
    Reverb 5
    Reso 4
    Presence 4


    I'm playing on the low gain input, and my lead pre is 7, I like it crunchy. The High gain is too noisy for me. Like I said, I like the sound if I stand out of the room, but if I'm right in front of it, it for some reason sounds thin.

    Anyway, thanks for your input, and anymore would be appreciated. It's just nice to know other are dealing with this too, and I'm not crazy.

    Edit: oh I put new tubes in myself about six months ago. I know the power tubes were JJ's, but I don't remember what brand the others were. I didn't think I would need a pro to do this or am I out of my mind? Just seemed like changing a lightbulb basically. Of course, I changed the correct tube for the correct tube, IE, 12ax7 for 12ax7. Thanks again.

    Ok cool -- you can get a really great classic rock sound out of the rhythm channel, and the lead channel to some extent.

    Try backing the bass back to 7 and the mids to 3-4.5. I have found that the 5150 has pretty good mids even when the mid dial is only on 2-4. If you crank it a lot higher, that can also make your amp sound brittle, or thin, especially at low volumes. Depending on your preamp tubes' sound, you might need the highs set anywhere from 4-5. Just do it by ear and make sure it isn't too harsh sounding. The presence control goes hand in hand with the hi, so play with that too to get rid of harshness. I think your pres. setting is pretty good, but it could be anywhere in the 3-6 range.

    I would use the high gain input (unless you are going for really specific and muffled sounding early 70's Marshall tones...) and then back the gain off, as opposed to using the low gain input and then cranking the gain. To me, that just sounds better, and cleaner. Also, having more power going into the tubes from the start will make the amp respond better to you playing, no matter how low you have the gain set. For what you are talking about, I'd only have the rhythm pre on 5-6 and the lead on 3-5.

    The resonance control on the 5150 seems to be the most mysterious with what it makes your amp sound like. I would leave it around 4, but you may find that anywhere from 2-5 would sound good at lower volumes. I find myself always having to adjust the res. knob whenever I move the post volume controls at all... it relates pretty closely to volume.
    Last edited by mrjstudios; 08.24.08 at 03:51 PM.

  5. #5
    5150 clawedmonet's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 07:25 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I got a 5150 combo. If I'm right on top of it, right in front of it so to speak, it sounds like crap. If I back off a bit, literally almost out of the room, it sounds great to me. I've never experienced this with any other amp before. Am I out of my mind? Are my ears playing tricks on me? Is the reverb in the room causing this? It is a small room, (small bedroom) but I don't have the amp cranked, 3 or 4 at the most. I play my line6 spider in the same room and it sounds fine up close.

    Seems crazy to me, because if I wanted to record, the mike would I'm assuming be right in front of the speakers? I'm nowhere near the musician you folks here are so I figure I've come to the right place to ask this.

    Sorry if it's a toatally stupid question. Thoughts?
    The previous posts are spot-on. It took me quite a while to dial in a nice tone on my 5150 combo, but I love it now. You have to experiment! A few other tips:

    1. Get a noise gate. I use the MXR, but some other people here use the Boss and they both seem to work fine.
    2. Seriously consider an attenuator, especially if you are playing at small bedroom levels. The THD Hotplate has a record out option that sounds awesome. The attenuator also makes experimenting a lot less painful on your ears.

    I saw in another post that you replaced some of the tubes yourself. You may want to check some of the old posts here about biasing to make sure that you did everything right. HipCat5 (I think) had a few very useful and insightful posts about the topic.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by clawedmonet View Post
    The previous posts are spot-on. It took me quite a while to dial in a nice tone on my 5150 combo, but I love it now. You have to experiment! A few other tips:

    1. Get a noise gate. I use the MXR, but some other people here use the Boss and they both seem to work fine.
    2. Seriously consider an attenuator, especially if you are playing at small bedroom levels. The THD Hotplate has a record out option that sounds awesome. The attenuator also makes experimenting a lot less painful on your ears.

    I saw in another post that you replaced some of the tubes yourself. You may want to check some of the old posts here about biasing to make sure that you did everything right. HipCat5 (I think) had a few very useful and insightful posts about the topic.

    A noise gate might be a good idea. I don't use one, but my setup does buzz and hum when I'm not playing.

    A THD Hotplate is another attenuator option that others have had success with. However, I really do recommend the Weber Mass Lite 100 Watt. It does everthing that the Hotplate does (it also has a line out for recording), and it is cheaper. The thing that really sets the Weber apart is that it has a 2 controller attenuation feature. 1 knob for highs, 1 for lows. It also has a range switch that lets you basically make the amp sound like 2 completely different amps when used creatively. And the Weber uses an actual speaker motor instead of just using massive resistors (like the Hotplate) to bleed off the extra amp power to heat. You would never know there is a speaker moving inside the Weber unit because it is dead quiet and does not vibrate, but having one there really makes it sound more natural as it attenuates.

  7. #7
    Baluchitherium
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    i found a noise gate to be perhaps the best investment for my 5150 (mainly because i play real loud, my neighbours can go and take a jump!)
    also its worth considering when recording using 2 mic's 1, around 1' away and directly infront of the speaker and another a couple of feet away about 45 degrees from the speaker that way you can capture some of the ambient sound from around the room and also allow the bass frequencies some room to move, also its worth considering what mic's you are using, i, along with plenty of others, have had great success with the sure sm57.
    http://www.facebook.com/Tommywho5150

    And with that I'm off to the kitchen to make myself a lesbian omelette...LLFHS in response to one of Graeme's post's


    "The anal beads may have scarred SNIC for life. That guy is tough as fucking nails!! No normal guy could take anal beads to the head and survive! "...OLO on SNIC's near death experience at TLW

    "I'm a 45-year-old man, and I still like to wear a thong or a speedo when I go swimming.
    Not because I have a great body, it's just an easy way to make sure I have the hotel swimming pool all to myself."...Bullwinkle for quite obvious reasons!

    "Dude, the cashier gave me the creepiest sneer when he rang up my unmentionables!"...Sassy Lassy during a Facebook conversation!

  8. #8
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    07.04.16 @ 08:03 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho5150 View Post
    i found a noise gate to be perhaps the best investment for my 5150 (mainly because i play real loud, my neighbours can go and take a jump!)
    also its worth considering when recording using 2 mic's 1, around 1' away and directly infront of the speaker and another a couple of feet away about 45 degrees from the speaker that way you can capture some of the ambient sound from around the room and also allow the bass frequencies some room to move, also its worth considering what mic's you are using, i, along with plenty of others, have had great success with the sure sm57.
    I'd like to offer to 5150 owners a lesser-known option for miking: the AKG 451. It's a small diaphragm condenser mic that was extremely popular in the 70s. They're best known for acoustic guitars, drum overheads, etc., but when a vintage pair was loaned to me years ago I started experimenting and couldn't believe my ears when I put it straight on the cone of my 5150 cab. I've since bought a pair of the 451 re-issue versions and typically run one through a Demeter H Series tube pre when miking a 5150 (and almost any guitar amp). Prior to this discovery I fought with 57s and double miking the cab (a 57 on the speaker and an AKG 414 a couple of feet back), but all of the approaches I took NEVER accomplished the roundness and fullness of the 451. You will be genuinely surprised. Try it!

  9. #9
    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewThomas.net View Post
    I'd like to offer to 5150 owners a lesser-known option for miking: the AKG 451. It's a small diaphragm condenser mic that was extremely popular in the 70s. They're best known for acoustic guitars, drum overheads, etc., but when a vintage pair was loaned to me years ago I started experimenting and couldn't believe my ears when I put it straight on the cone of my 5150 cab. I've since bought a pair of the 451 re-issue versions and typically run one through a Demeter H Series tube pre when miking a 5150 (and almost any guitar amp). Prior to this discovery I fought with 57s and double miking the cab (a 57 on the speaker and an AKG 414 a couple of feet back), but all of the approaches I took NEVER accomplished the roundness and fullness of the 451. You will be genuinely surprised. Try it!
    lol i've never even heard of them!...lol
    i'll have to hunt some down and give them a whirl, it took me many hours of experimenting to get the correct placement for my 5150 and i tried loads of mic combinations, but eventualy i settled on the sm57's i guess in the end i was playing safe....coz everyone use's them....but they do sound good.

    thanks for the advice A.T. i'll be looking onto it ready for my next recording.

    tom
    http://www.facebook.com/Tommywho5150

    And with that I'm off to the kitchen to make myself a lesbian omelette...LLFHS in response to one of Graeme's post's


    "The anal beads may have scarred SNIC for life. That guy is tough as fucking nails!! No normal guy could take anal beads to the head and survive! "...OLO on SNIC's near death experience at TLW

    "I'm a 45-year-old man, and I still like to wear a thong or a speedo when I go swimming.
    Not because I have a great body, it's just an easy way to make sure I have the hotel swimming pool all to myself."...Bullwinkle for quite obvious reasons!

    "Dude, the cashier gave me the creepiest sneer when he rang up my unmentionables!"...Sassy Lassy during a Facebook conversation!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho5150 View Post
    lol i've never even heard of them!...lol
    i'll have to hunt some down and give them a whirl, it took me many hours of experimenting to get the correct placement for my 5150 and i tried loads of mic combinations, but eventualy i settled on the sm57's i guess in the end i was playing safe....coz everyone use's them....but they do sound good.

    thanks for the advice A.T. i'll be looking onto it ready for my next recording.

    tom
    It was a liberating discovery for me--and one I almost didn't even try (how often do people use small diaphragm condensers on guitar cabs??)--because up to that point I'd been settling for what I considered to be a compromise with the 57/414 approach. But there was no fight with the 451 at all; I put it straight on the cone about an inch back from the screen, ran it into the Demeter and set the gain as high as possible without clipping, and sent it to one channel on my Mackie board--no EQ. My first enthusiastic response was: "Now THAT'S what I want my amp to sound like miked!!" I still do different miking for different kinds of parts and sounds, but when the recording calls for an accurrate reproduction of the amp like you're sitting in front of it, it's the 451 and Demeter all the way.

  11. #11
    Banned! The Dude's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info guys.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewThomas.net View Post
    It was a liberating discovery for me--and one I almost didn't even try (how often do people use small diaphragm condensers on guitar cabs??)--because up to that point I'd been settling for what I considered to be a compromise with the 57/414 approach. But there was no fight with the 451 at all; I put it straight on the cone about an inch back from the screen, ran it into the Demeter and set the gain as high as possible without clipping, and sent it to one channel on my Mackie board--no EQ. My first enthusiastic response was: "Now THAT'S what I want my amp to sound like miked!!" I still do different miking for different kinds of parts and sounds, but when the recording calls for an accurrate reproduction of the amp like you're sitting in front of it, it's the 451 and Demeter all the way.
    Hmmm... I may have to get some of these and try them out...

  13. #13
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjstudios View Post
    First of all, congrats on getting an excellent amp!

    And also, welcome to the world of 5150's!!!! What you are describing is a common problem among 5150 owners it seems. It took me a few months to get mine to the point where I really liked the sound of it. Then once I got my second 5150 combo, it had a slightly different tone to it, so I had to do even more adjusting til I liked it. Here is the problem; you must adjust the amp's tone while sitting either with your ear right in front of the speakers (not recommended ) or with your mic set up and listening through the monitors or headphones. Even if you stand in front of it, the speakers are pointing directly at your shins, so the tone down there in the 'hot spot' will be completely different than up where your head is. The 5150's speakers are EXTREMELY directional, and not very forgiving if you don't spend the time adjusting your amp.

    Here is what I would recommend:

    Buy an attenuator. I use a Weber Mass Lite 100 Watt and it is excellent, and only $160! That rather small investment will make you very happy, since the 5150 WILL NOT SOUND OPTIMUM AT ANY POST LEVEL UNDER ~4.5, (depending on your power tubes, give or take .5). Having said that, you can get a really decent tone from the 1-3 post range, but if you are looking for authentic EVH sound, don't count on getting it that quiet. The sweet spot of the amp is about 5-6 for the combo (I know you 5150 head owners would say about 6-7 for the head, but there is a slight difference).

    Retube the amp. Your amp probably has Electro-Harmonics preamp tubes, or worse -- chinese preamp tubes. That will make the amp sound very harsh, especially at lower volume levels. I use JJ ECC83s tubes (from Eurotubes.com -- highly recommended). You will also probably find some no-name or whatever power tubes in your amp. These are not as important to the tone of the 5150, but if they are really old and worn out, replace them. Power tube blowouts can be nasty for your amp. Again, JJ 6L6GCs are great.

    What settings are you using right now? If you post them all, I could probably help you get the tone you are looking for. Who do you want to sound like most? (Unless you are specifically going for the EVH Balance tone, the 5150 is fairly easy to tweak once you understand it.)
    What MRJ described is bang on. Alot of what you are experiencing has to do with the dynamics of the Sheffield speaker. As MRJ said, they are extremely directional. To give you piece of mind and prove a rubber room is not in your immediate future... I can mic up a Marshall cab with Celestions in a couple minutes and be totally satisfied with the tone. I've spent well over an hour or two trying to get a similar sound out of the 5150 cab. First off, the cones have a real steep triangular geometry, and it pushes a more condensed signal through the air than most other speakers. A celestion has a slightly flatter design, and a slightly softer response which is much easier to find that sweet spot on the cone. It also fills the room with a more full,dispersed sound, no matter where you're standing. I love the 5150 sound, but yes what you guys are describing is very accurate. The sond comes out of a 5150 like a frick'n laser beam, and bounces off of everything. Our singer hated the amp. I always had to aim it more toward a wall to balance it out.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  14. #14
    Baluchitherium
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    also experimenting with different cabs is a good idea (although not always financialy possible) i often mix the 5150 cabs with a marshall 1960 cab and the smaller 4x12 they made with the valvestate range (great low end out of those), i also found orange cabs suprisingly good too.

    also try putting you amp on some soundproof matting and see if you hear any difference, i put mine on it all the time, there is a sutble difference.
    http://www.facebook.com/Tommywho5150

    And with that I'm off to the kitchen to make myself a lesbian omelette...LLFHS in response to one of Graeme's post's


    "The anal beads may have scarred SNIC for life. That guy is tough as fucking nails!! No normal guy could take anal beads to the head and survive! "...OLO on SNIC's near death experience at TLW

    "I'm a 45-year-old man, and I still like to wear a thong or a speedo when I go swimming.
    Not because I have a great body, it's just an easy way to make sure I have the hotel swimming pool all to myself."...Bullwinkle for quite obvious reasons!

    "Dude, the cashier gave me the creepiest sneer when he rang up my unmentionables!"...Sassy Lassy during a Facebook conversation!

  15. #15
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    I use my 5150 with the smaller Marshall 4 x 12 Valvestate cab, with Celestions. I tried the 5150 cab and just never liked that condensed tone I got from those Sheffield speakers.
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