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  1. #1
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Default There are no morals on the internet

    I don't know if this is anything any of you want to talk about, but it's a subject that I've been thinking about lately, and I thought I'd run it past you guys.

    "It doesn't matter if it's wrong or right. There are no morals in the digital world" Ron Braunstein AKA "Necro" a self styled "death rapper" quoted on the controversy involving grisly death scene photos of a California girl that have been making the round on the internet.

    I started to think about his quote, which initially struck me as a sensationalistic viewpoint. However, the more I thought about it, I began to wonder....in this internet society, where "close communities" of like minded individuals are formed and technology is available to each person to reach out to millions of people and yet maintain complete anonymity, or to manipulate and obfuscate one's identity to one's advantage, has morality becomce non exsistent? Or in the case of the internet, does anonymity and distance make one's morality "optional" or "situational"?

    I have been thinking about recent situation which I have become aware of that range form the the celebrity (Christie Brinkley's pillar of the community ex hubby spending thousands of dollars on web porn using his son's computer and using the internet to attempt to hook up with local women), to the common ( a family physician who during the day was Dr Do Right but at night and on the weekends used his office computer to troll the internet looking for adolescent boys to contact and send kiddie porn to) to the senstational (the case of the aforementioned Nikki Catsouras, the 'Porsche Girl" whose grisly death photos were leaked the CHP and were posted on over 1600 web sites and were anonymously emailed to her grieving family), to the heartless (the case of the mother who created a fake myspace page and identity for a boy named Josh..all in the name of finding out what her daughter's former friend was saying about the girl and ultimately encouraging the suicide of a young girl) to the sad (a family destroyed by the infidelity of a parent whose extra marital relationship began as a simple case of chat room flirting) to the tawdry( a plethora of postings of intimate photos and videos of former lovers).

    So really, it's a "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear is does it make a sound" kind of argument...if a person on the internet behaves in such a way to be incompatible with his/her known morals and convictions, but their anonymity is protected, can those convictions still be held true in the "real world" ...does the anonymity and distance of the internet suspend any commitment to those convictions, morals and standards of behaviour?

  2. #2
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    So really, it's a "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear is does it make a sound" kind of argument...if a person on the internet behaves in such a way to be incompatible with his/her known morals and convictions, but their anonymity is protected, can those convictions still be held true in the "real world" ...does the anonymity and distance of the internet suspend any commitment to those convictions, morals and standards of behaviour?
    Well, I think that's just it, the internet becomes an outlet for all they want to be able to do in the "real world" but feel they can't. Look at the guys that come on here and make a big deal about it every time a new girl shows up to post - think they do that in real life everytime they encounter a new female? There are people on here also that act all rough 'n tough, but in real life would probably be the first to back down. On the other hand, I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that what you see is what you get - they're not trying to pass themselves off as anything more than how they'd be if you met them in person. Hard part is just figuring out who is who!

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
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    The internet is the wild west. It's that dark alley your parents used to try and scare you about.

    Character is who you are in the dark, when no one is looking. I'm a moderator on another site and last year we were targeted by a scumbag message board and we had to lock the board down because we were flooded with horrible pictures of mutilated animals and kiddie porn. IP addresses and content were forwarded to the FBI and local law enforcement but it was the sickest thing I'd seen on the net. The idea that there are people out there who found this amusing makes me question the wisdom of perserving the human race.

    My fantasy is much like the end of Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, where the two spend their reward money flying across the country beating up 12 yearold kids who posted smack-talk on their website.

    BTW, does anyone remember BradS and his antics on this board?
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  4. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    unfortunately it's not just the internet.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post

    BTW, does anyone remember BradS and his antics on this board?
    Brad, aka Mulaka, has been around in new incarnations since then, more than once. As have our other favorite serial aliasers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    Or in the case of the internet, does anonymity and distance make one's morality "optional" or "situational"?

    I have been thinking about recent situation which I have become aware of that range form the the celebrity (Christie Brinkley's pillar of the community ex hubby spending thousands of dollars on web porn using his son's computer and using the internet to attempt to hook up with local women), to the common ( a family physician who during the day was Dr Do Right but at night and on the weekends used his office computer to troll the internet looking for adolescent boys to contact and send kiddie porn to) to the senstational (the case of the aforementioned Nikki Catsouras, the 'Porsche Girl" whose grisly death photos were leaked the CHP and were posted on over 1600 web sites and were anonymously emailed to her grieving family), to the heartless (the case of the mother who created a fake myspace page and identity for a boy named Josh..all in the name of finding out what her daughter's former friend was saying about the girl and ultimately encouraging the suicide of a young girl) to the sad (a family destroyed by the infidelity of a parent whose extra marital relationship began as a simple case of chat room flirting) to the tawdry( a plethora of postings of intimate photos and videos of former lovers).

    So really, it's a "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear is does it make a sound" kind of argument...if a person on the internet behaves in such a way to be incompatible with his/her known morals and convictions, but their anonymity is protected, can those convictions still be held true in the "real world" ...does the anonymity and distance of the internet suspend any commitment to those convictions, morals and standards of behaviour?
    Wow, what a huge question. But to break it down, and make it simple (because I have many more things to do than play around on the internet...LOL.) "It's the anonymity, stupid." Not dissing you, you know what I mean...

    Most of the behaviors you noted, Daisy, have gone on since the beginning of time: pedophilia, infidelity, cruelty, and plain old manipulation and exploitation. The internet just makes it a whole lot easier to engage in these behaviors. On the other hand, there's always plenty of opportunities to act in abhorrent ways on the net that people choose not to engage in, because of their own moral convictions, despite the lack of consequences afforded by the anonymity factor.


    Like Billy said though, people act in ways toward others on a website that they never would in real life. Not necessarily immorally, but certainly in ways that lack respect and sensitivity (not excluding myself here.) And I don't think anonymity is the only factor here. I think another pitfall of the internet is that relationships formed are generally superficial, so people don't have the loyalty that occurs in real relationships. That changes when real friendships are formed, as we've seen on this site. People interact in those relationships much like they would if they were in their physical presence. I suppose the superficiality is another facilitator in making it easier to behave badly.

    The upside of course, is that you can come to a message board and enjoy the company of people who share your interests, your passions. And that's cool, as long as you don't neglect your relationships in real life, as the internet cannot fill that void.

    Not sure I'm giving you an enlightening answer to your question, Daisy. You just got me thinkin'....which is probably a good thing.
    Last edited by eden; 07.13.08 at 09:09 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    I don't know if this is anything any of you want to talk about, but it's a subject that I've been thinking about lately, and I thought I'd run it past you guys.

    "It doesn't matter if it's wrong or right. There are no morals in the digital world" Ron Braunstein AKA "Necro" a self styled "death rapper" quoted on the controversy involving grisly death scene photos of a California girl that have been making the round on the internet.

    I started to think about his quote, which initially struck me as a sensationalistic viewpoint. However, the more I thought about it, I began to wonder....in this internet society, where "close communities" of like minded individuals are formed and technology is available to each person to reach out to millions of people and yet maintain complete anonymity, or to manipulate and obfuscate one's identity to one's advantage, has morality becomce non exsistent? Or in the case of the internet, does anonymity and distance make one's morality "optional" or "situational"?

    I have been thinking about recent situation which I have become aware of that range form the the celebrity (Christie Brinkley's pillar of the community ex hubby spending thousands of dollars on web porn using his son's computer and using the internet to attempt to hook up with local women), to the common ( a family physician who during the day was Dr Do Right but at night and on the weekends used his office computer to troll the internet looking for adolescent boys to contact and send kiddie porn to) to the senstational (the case of the aforementioned Nikki Catsouras, the 'Porsche Girl" whose grisly death photos were leaked the CHP and were posted on over 1600 web sites and were anonymously emailed to her grieving family), to the heartless (the case of the mother who created a fake myspace page and identity for a boy named Josh..all in the name of finding out what her daughter's former friend was saying about the girl and ultimately encouraging the suicide of a young girl) to the sad (a family destroyed by the infidelity of a parent whose extra marital relationship began as a simple case of chat room flirting) to the tawdry( a plethora of postings of intimate photos and videos of former lovers).

    So really, it's a "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear is does it make a sound" kind of argument...if a person on the internet behaves in such a way to be incompatible with his/her known morals and convictions, but their anonymity is protected, can those convictions still be held true in the "real world" ...does the anonymity and distance of the internet suspend any commitment to those convictions, morals and standards of behaviour?
    Yes you are right there are no morals on the internet. I find it crazy that people have the time to do such horrible things to other people and go about there day acting like a normal person.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    unfortunately it's not just the internet.
    Very true.

    Evil has always been around. The net just makes it user friendly.
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  9. #9
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    The internet is the wild west. It's that dark alley your parents used to try and scare you about.

    Character is who you are in the dark, when no one is looking.
    ?

    It seems the internet gives people who have something to hide a place to hide.

    I suppose it can be argued that the internet offers an outlet for all those anti social, and otherwise frowned upon behaviours and as such is actually a good thing.

    But if we have an outlet that indulges the darkest desires and impulses, in complete anonymity, how can that be a good thing? Are we desensitizing and entire generation to human feelings so that they feel it is Ok to send a family pictures of their decapitated daughter, not just exposing the family to that horror, but also to the horrible knowledge that those pictures are circulating the internet for the "enjoyment" of complete strangers?

    Obviously, I'm not looking at my nieghbor and thinking he's spending his evenings performing sex acts on a web cam, but then again, our trusted family physician was using his office computer to store and disseminate child porn!

    I am a proponent of Freedom of Speech and expression, but even I wonder, is there a limit, what is the limit, who determies what the limit is and how do you enforce that limit in an internet world, that only exists digitally and in the minds of the "beholders"?

  10. #10
    Eruption Goldustgrl's Avatar
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    It seems the internet gives people who have something to hide a place to hide.

    I suppose it can be argued that the internet offers an outlet for all those anti social, and otherwise frowned upon behaviours and as such is actually a good thing.
    It also gives people who have nothing something.

    As much as technology is a help to us, it's also killing us. Today's morals are much different from our parents/grandparents...makes you wonder what our great-grandchildren are going to be exposed to.
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  11. #11
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldustgrl View Post
    It also gives people who have nothing something.

    As much as technology is a help to us, it's also killing us. Today's morals are much different from our parents/grandparents...makes you wonder what our great-grandchildren are going to be exposed to.
    I know we like to think that, especially because they came from the "Greatest Generation", but it just isn't the case. Lots of sexual abuse was going on.....just look at the priest scandal, and reports from literally thousands, maybe 100's of thousands of people who were abused as children and are just revealing it now. And they are doing so because they finally feel safe....our society has made what I think of, as a moral and just decision to bring this out into the open,and to say to victims that they are not to blame, and they are not the ones who should burden the shame,and certainly not the responsibility.

    Same could be said for physical and emotional abuse of children, wife beating, rape, brutalizing blacks and homosexuals, publically sanctioned racism and sexism, prostitution, and on and on and on. Society just turned a blind eye to a lot of these acts. Guess you could say then, that the guilty were anonymous.

    As others have said, sure the internet makes it easier for people to commit immoral acts, but the potential is always there anyway. I do think as a society we will harness some of this stuff, probably more and more as time goes on. Can't you already report "internet bullying"?

    As the old saying goes, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Cyber technology and the internet has had such an incredibly positive impact on our society and the world; who could've imagined such a thing even 20 or 30 years ago?
    Last edited by eden; 07.14.08 at 06:52 AM.
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  12. #12
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    I had a similar debate with some friends recently.

    The internet does allow people to behave differently than they might face to face but most people also act differently in their cars or on the phone.

    Nobody is forced to go online and there are enough parental locks and other safeguards to protect those in need of "protecting".

    To my mind, the internet is one of the most incredible inventions of all time. It is an open door to the whole of the world, both the good and the bad, the informative and the downright stupid. An intelligent person can make chioces according to their own ideas.

    As for some of these cyber bullying stories, such things would be possible without the net and did (and still do) occur. Sure the net has made it easier but, once again, there are enough ways to filter out what you don't want.

    There is some stuff and some people on the net that I would rather not know about. The same stuff and people exist in the everyday world too, this being the place where they are able to do far more damage.

    The fact of the matter is, if you open up communication the way we have, there is always going to be new issues to take into consideration but I say, leave it free and open and if somebody commits on the internet what amounts to a crime in the real world, they are often caught just as easily.

    Kiddie porn, bullying etc did not start with the internet. People are the problem, not the tools we use.
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  13. #13
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post

    I am a proponent of Freedom of Speech and expression, but even I wonder, is there a limit, what is the limit, who determies what the limit is and how do you enforce that limit in an internet world, that only exists digitally and in the minds of the "beholders"?
    Freedom of Speech does not protect breaking the law which distributing child porn is definitely breaking the law. As for sending pictures of a dead girl, it would seem that some sort of privacy law has been broken since the pictures are police evidence. Hopefully when they discover who actually let the pictures be leaked, they will be prosecuted as well. We can only hope that our ability to track back to the source improves as technology advances.

    I think society in general has become desensitized and the internet is only a symptom of the illness. The news media shows a little bit more of crime scenes all the time, television has more shows depicting abhorrent behavior, music has songs dedicated to sub verse acts that degrade another human being usually women, parents have had their hands tied in many situations from disciplining children (thinking back to the court that overruled a girl being grounded ), the list goes on and on.

    The teaching of morality should begin at birth, right and wrong, respect, courtesy and a sense of concern for our fellow man. I think as we have moved away from religion as a starting point for teaching morality (and the threat of eternal hell), there is nothing to hold back a person's urges. They simply act on them. And jail doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent anymore as we so often see people get off on technicalities or released due to overcrowding or "good behavior" and in many states, the death penalty has been mostly eliminated. I'm not saying that religion in and of itself is the answer since we have priests committing some pretty heinous acts but it does give more of an everlasting threat than our current judicial system. I also think you can raise a decent human being without religion but in the past, it has been another tool to help teach. I think it's only going to get worse since people with a lack of morality will raise children with the same sort of thinking.
    Last edited by loveevhsince79; 07.14.08 at 06:59 AM.
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  14. #14
    Eruption Goldustgrl's Avatar
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    I know we like to think that, especially because they came from the "Greatest Generation", but it just isn't the case. Lots of sexual abuse was going on.....just look at the priest scandal, and reports from literally thousands, maybe 100's of thousands of people who were abused as children and are just revealing it now.
    True...there has always been scum of the earth. Maybe "respect" would have been a better word ... most of the kids today completely lack it. Who are some of the people they look up to..."rap gangstas", drugged out teen idols all brought to you by modern technology....TV and the internet. Yes, there are wonderful things the web brings...I've found out alot, and learned alot...but it does bring harm as well as good.

    The teaching of morality should begin at birth, right and wrong, respect, courtesy and a sense of concern for our fellow man. I think as we have moved away from religion as a starting point for teaching morality (and the threat of eternal hell), there is nothing to hold back a person's urges. They simply act on them. And jail doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent anymore as we so often see people get off on technicalities or released due to overcrowding or "good behavior" and in many states, the death penalty has been mostly eliminated. I'm not saying that religion in and of itself is the answer since we have priests committing some pretty heinous acts but it does give more of an everlasting threat than our current judicial system. I also think you can raise a decent human being without religion but in the past, it has been another tool to help teach. I think it's only going to get worse since people with a lack of morality will raise children with the same sort of thinking.
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  15. #15
    Banned! Booth's Avatar
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    doesn't that demented nutbag OU812max who used to post here have an internet girlfriend? talk about no morals!

    i'm glad he finally got the message and i scared him away from here

    you're welcome

 

 

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