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  1. #1
    Romeo Delight Tapster1984's Avatar
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    ok im gathering parts for my next project guitar, this one is goin to be my number 1 playing guitar... so it will be a 1 hum 1 vol style Warmoth Alder Rear Routed Strat Body, Warmoth Birds-eye Maple Neck (Strat Style), Original Floyd and Nut, Gotoh Tuners.. now my questions

    Question One: I really Want a SD 78 but dont want to pay $150.00, so the question is what is the closest thing to it under 100 bucks? SD Pearly Gates?

    Question Two: Body Finishes, ive read stuff saying if the laquar/paint is too thick then it will kill body tone. true or false? if true what can i do to get a decent looking guitar but keeping the body tone the same as it would be unfinished?

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    I've been doing a lot of Tru-Oil (gunstock oil) and wax polish finishes on my custom guitars and am really liking the look, feel, and sound. You can stain first if you want or just leave the wood bare. A few coats of Tru-Oil, steel wool, apply a wax, hand buff it--done!


  3. #3
    Eruption hotforteacher921's Avatar
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    i dont know what the 78 is like but the Duncan Custom is great!
    It is not an understatement to say that if a person ate a bowl of alphabet soup, they would shit better lyrics. -lmr5150 on Up For Breakfast

    Give him the "secret devil sign", stick out your tongue and hiss like a demon while bellowing out THE DARKNESS WILL ENVELOPE THY SOUL AND FEAST OF THY FLESH, INFIDEL!!!!! Then gouge a pentagram in your forehead with a nail file. -LowLifeFlatHeadScum

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  4. #4
    Baluchitherium
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    the pearly gates is one of my all time favourite pickups, ive used them in nearly all my guitars...its a great choice of pup.
    http://www.facebook.com/Tommywho5150

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  5. #5
    Top Of The World ncbuckeye3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapster1984 View Post
    ok im gathering parts for my next project guitar, this one is goin to be my number 1 playing guitar... so it will be a 1 hum 1 vol style Warmoth Alder Rear Routed Strat Body, Warmoth Birds-eye Maple Neck (Strat Style), Original Floyd and Nut, Gotoh Tuners.. now my questions

    Question One: I really Want a SD 78 but dont want to pay $150.00, so the question is what is the closest thing to it under 100 bucks? SD Pearly Gates?

    Question Two: Body Finishes, ive read stuff saying if the laquar/paint is too thick then it will kill body tone. true or false? if true what can i do to get a decent looking guitar but keeping the body tone the same as it would be unfinished?
    If you are building your #1 playing guitar, then why skimp on the pickup. It is only another $50, don't be stingy and just do it. This is the #1 guitar for you, it needs to have what you want in it.

  6. #6
    Romeo Delight Tapster1984's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncbuckeye3 View Post
    If you are building your #1 playing guitar, then why skimp on the pickup. It is only another $50, don't be stingy and just do it. This is the #1 guitar for you, it needs to have what you want in it.
    very true, i was thinking the same after i posted.

  7. #7
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
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    If it is going to be your #1 playing guitar, I would use a Seymour Duncan JB. It will give you alot of tonal diversity, and still rock the house. The JB sounds good with any style of music.

    Other than that, a Seymour Duncan Custom Custom is good.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  8. #8
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapster1984 View Post
    ok im gathering parts for my next project guitar, this one is goin to be my number 1 playing guitar... so it will be a 1 hum 1 vol style Warmoth Alder Rear Routed Strat Body, Warmoth Birds-eye Maple Neck (Strat Style), Original Floyd and Nut, Gotoh Tuners.. now my questions

    Question One: I really Want a SD 78 but dont want to pay $150.00, so the question is what is the closest thing to it under 100 bucks? SD Pearly Gates?

    Question Two: Body Finishes, ive read stuff saying if the laquar/paint is too thick then it will kill body tone. true or false? if true what can i do to get a decent looking guitar but keeping the body tone the same as it would be unfinished?
    Hey man! OK! What is your main amp you envision using with this guitar? Reason I'm asking is if it is specifically a more vintage tube amp,and as I'm guessing you kinda' dig Eddie's type of tone you'll obviously NEED a more powerful punchy pickup like the '78 or the Custom to saturate the preamp section as well as bring out all the nuances of your playing at more useable volume levels. To me, If your amp is more modern, packs more gain, solid state or a high gain tube design, then the Pearly Gates, '59 or the good 'ol JB are all fantastic choices from my perspective, as they have a nice full sound. They have nice "roll in" volume wise wich is what you absolutely need in a volume only guitar. If you have a too high output pickup with an amp that is of higher gain structure, then your volume might as well be substituted with an ON/OFF switch. As you roll off the volume it won't clean up as much as die out with crappy overtones and it seems like a contant battle to eliminate the buzz of the preamp of high gain amps.(The balance where the preamp has a nice full round sound with responsive gain.) You can never go wrong with a Duncan pickup in my opinion. I've always felt Dimarzio standard models to be too edgy and brittle with the exception of several models(like for the Axis), but this is usually a result of the strong magnets they use. Duncan's are far more traditional in their design as far as the pickups listed above goes. The pickups I build (or mangle into submission ) tend to be of the Duncan Custom kind of output and sound on the guitars I tend to use with an old Marshall of mine, and kind of a cross between the JB and '59 on a guitar I built for my 5150, or our rehearsal spaces Soldano's. I go for that Clapton kind of Wine like tone, which is also very close to the sound Ed had on Fair Warning. For finishes I'm weird as hell. What I do is set up the guitar with NO finish and play it. Go through a variety of tone settings and note the overall sound of the guitar. If it is a bright sounding instrument and you want it warmer, then using an oil finish will do this, as will polyurethanes or ACRYLIC laquers to a degree due to their natural high build characteristics. If it IS already a warm sounding guitar, then NITRO laquer is an excellent choice, is thin, not thick like you read and does not kill tone, although it can be easy to chip, has around a 30 day max. cure time because even though it feels dry it still contains volatiles that are reactive to materials that are rubber based like guitar stand protective tubing but once dry is very hard and polishes up gorgeous. It does degrade faster than modern finishes (checks,and what is called sinking into the grain, actually shrinking), but some consider it endearing and wer'e talking decades here.....le'ts face it old broken in guitars look cool! Now some have used enamel paints. They are very thick, are oil based, sloooooowwwww curing and yes can kill tone outright if the wood is not sealed properly first. Anyway, Just use your common sense and think for the future when building. This will make your choices alot easier, and ultimately you'll have an instrument that you just can't put down . Good luck and have fun!
    Last edited by SLEEPER5150; 07.05.08 at 08:27 AM.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  9. #9
    Eruption bjk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobozos View Post
    If it is going to be your #1 playing guitar, I would use a Seymour Duncan JB. It will give you alot of tonal diversity, and still rock the house. The JB sounds good with any style of music.

    Other than that, a Seymour Duncan Custom Custom is good.
    I'll second that. I put the JB(bridge) and the Jazz(neck) in my Strat and they both sound killer, plus they clean up nicely when rolling down the volume. The only thing is the poles don't match up perfectly with the strings because of the Floyd Rose. I think they also make them speciallly for Floyd spacing, so you may try those, but I'm not sure it makes a hell of a lot of difference. Mine sounds fine.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLEEPER5150 View Post
    Hey man! OK! What is your main amp you envision using with this guitar? Reason I'm asking is if it is specifically a more vintage tube amp,and as I'm guessing you kinda' dig Eddie's type of tone you'll obviously NEED a more powerful punchy pickup like the '78 or the Custom to saturate the preamp section as well as bring out all the nuances of your playing at more useable volume levels. To me, If your amp is more modern, packs more gain, solid state or a high gain tube design, then the Pearly Gates, '59 or the good 'ol JB are all fantastic choices from my perspective, as they have a nice full sound. They have nice "roll in" volume wise wich is what you absolutely need in a volume only guitar. If you have a too high output pickup with an amp that is of higher gain structure, then your volume might as well be substituted with an ON/OFF switch. As you roll off the volume it won't clean up as much as die out with crappy overtones and it seems like a contant battle to eliminate the buzz of the preamp of high gain amps.(The balance where the preamp has a nice full round sound with responsive gain.) You can never go wrong with a Duncan pickup in my opinion. I've always felt Dimarzio standard models to be too edgy and brittle with the exception of several models(like for the Axis), but this is usually a result of the strong magnets they use. Duncan's are far more traditional in their design as far as the pickups listed above goes. The pickups I build (or mangle into submission ) tend to be of the Duncan Custom kind of output and sound on the guitars I tend to use with an old Marshall of mine, and kind of a cross between the JB and '59 on a guitar I built for my 5150, or our rehearsal spaces Soldano's. I go for that Clapton kind of Wine like tone, which is also very close to the sound Ed had on Fair Warning. For finishes I'm weird as hell. What I do is set up the guitar with NO finish and play it. Go through a variety of tone settings and note the overall sound of the guitar. If it is a bright sounding instrument and you want it warmer, then using an oil finish will do this, as will polyurethanes or ACRYLIC laquers to a degree due to their natural high build characteristics. If it IS already a warm sounding guitar, then NITRO laquer is an excellent choice, is thin, not thick like you read and does not kill tone, although it can be easy to chip, has around a 30 day max. cure time because even though it feels dry it still contains volatiles that are reactive to materials that are rubber based like guitar stand protective tubing but once dry is very hard and polishes up gorgeous. It does degrade faster than modern finishes (checks,and what is called sinking into the grain, actually shrinking), but some consider it endearing and wer'e talking decades here.....le'ts face it old broken in guitars look cool! Now some have used enamel paints. They are very thick, are oil based, sloooooowwwww curing and yes can kill tone outright if the wood is not sealed properly first. Anyway, Just use your common sense and think for the future when building. This will make your choices alot easier, and ultimately you'll have an instrument that you just can't put down . Good luck and have fun!
    +1
    The amp your using should be a big consideration when selecting a pickup.
    Good call SLEEPER.

    I also agree with the finish comments ...
    I've played the same guitar unfinished, painted with acrylic lacquer (Krylon), and then repainted again in acrylic urethane and even I can tell the difference.

    The sound of an unfinished guitar sounds "pure", but I would highly suggest sealing it at the very least.

    Acrylic lacquer (Krylon) ... sounds like poo.
    It goes on thick just by the nature of the rattlecan nozzel and blankets your tone like no other finish I've ever experienced. This includes guitars painted with AND without clearcoat. I can almost gaurantee that anyone who argues this has had no other type of finish on thier guitar for comparison.
    This is also the type of paint suseptable to chemical reactions with the rubber used on guitar stands, not to mention just about any other material it comes into contact with. It takes up to a year to fully cure and is probably the worst paint you can use on a guitar.
    Use it on your relic Frankies (which are suppose to look like crap) or your lawn furniture.
    Don't use it on a guitar you want to look and sound good.

    Acrylic urethane (aka: car paint) ...
    This is the paint I use on my finishes.
    It's fairly easy to work with, it will not crack or yellow over time, and it leaves a nice hard finish that helps provide resonance and sustain.

    Nitrocelleous ... has been used to finish instruments for centuries and is probably the best finish available for "tone", resonance, sustain, etc., BUT it does have it's disadvantages in that it will yellow and crack over time.
    Not a big deal if you're into that sort of thing.
    Last edited by Dino5150; 07.05.08 at 01:46 PM.

  11. #11
    Eruption
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    Shit. You dont need me. Nuff said.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino5150 View Post
    +1
    The amp your using should be a big consideration when selecting a pickup.
    Good call SLEEPER.

    I also agree with the finish comments ...
    I've played the same guitar unfinished, painted with acrylic lacquer (Krylon), and then repainted again in acrylic urethane and even I can tell the difference.

    The sound of an unfinished guitar sounds "pure", but I would highly suggest sealing it at the very least.

    Acrylic lacquer (Krylon) ... sounds like poo.
    It goes on thick just by the nature of the rattlecan nozzel and blankets your tone like no other finish I've ever experienced. This includes guitars painted with AND without clearcoat. I can almost gaurantee that anyone who argues this has had no other type of finish on thier guitar for comparison.
    This is also the type of paint suseptable to chemical reactions with the rubber used on guitar stands, not to mention just about any other material it comes into contact with. It takes up to a year to fully cure and is probably the worst paint you can use on a guitar.
    Use it on your relic Frankies (which are suppose to look like crap) or your lawn furniture.
    Don't use it on a guitar you want to look and sound good.

    Acrylic urethane (aka: car paint) ...
    This is the paint I use on my finishes.
    It's fairly easy to work with, it will not crack or yellow over time, and it leaves a nice hard finish that helps provide resonance and sustain.

    Nitrocelleous ... has been used to finish instruments for centuries and is probably the best finish available for "tone", resonance, sustain, etc., BUT it does have it's disadvantages in that it will yellow and crack over time.
    Not a big deal if you're into that sort of thing.
    Do you think that Ed really used Krylon on his 5150 and Franky or do you think he used some other paint?

    I am on the fence if I want to paint my 5150 with Krylon or a better paint. I want my 5150 to look and sound good, but I don't want to use clear coat and I eventually would like it to have that worn in look.

  13. #13
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
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    I thought I read somewhere that he used Schwin bicycle paint.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  14. #14
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iplayguitaralot View Post
    Do you think that Ed really used Krylon on his 5150 and Franky or do you think he used some other paint?

    I am on the fence if I want to paint my 5150 with Krylon or a better paint. I want my 5150 to look and sound good, but I don't want to use clear coat and I eventually would like it to have that worn in look.
    I have from a good source that the paint he used was in fact a product made for Schwinn dealers back in the '70's and early '80's for touching up bike frames. It is apparently almost identical to Duplicolor today, but without the bad carrier agents. Krylon is almost flexible and never cures 100% hard, like Dino said and although it can be used to some success with cautious application, Duplicolor is best in this range of paints. Plus they have very close matches being essentially rock chip or spot repair paint for your expensive car paint. Obviously though a pro job requires a controlled clean environment and a proper gun, line filter and compressor. These can be rented too.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  15. #15
    Eruption
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    Yeah. Right on all counts.
    The only time I use Krylon anymore is for certain color apps. And thats rare. Most of the time its a Dupe thing. But allways use the Acrillic Urathane for clearcoat.
    I dont see it bein a problem usin Krylon doin up a relic 5150 or Frankenstrat.
    Bannner red is a nice match.
    Also, Krylon doesnt do wacky stuff when you spray different colors on top of each other like some of the cheaper rattlecans.
    Ask Dino how, back in the day when we first started, how he gave me the lowdown about Krylon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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