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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk Viking's Avatar
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    Default A Question For Those In Human Resources

    At Amazon I work 4-10 hour days. Just recently every shift in the building went to the 4-10's format. Before this the two night shifts were still working 5-8's. When we get paid for a Holiday, we only get 8 hrs of pay, which has always kind of bugged me.

    Yet if I want to take a day of vacation or personal time, I have to use up 10 hours. It doesn't seem right to me, but I was wondering if there was someone out here that works in HR, that could explain to me how the company can get by with only paying us for 8 hours, when we work a 10 hour shift?
    "Viking - last to sleep, first to rise, last to leave, that's how the Nords of old rocked the house." ~ timmac in the 'Texas Linkers' thread talking about yours truly. :-)

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium Guitar Shark's Avatar
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    State laws can be very different, so you're asking for trouble if you rely on an HR person who is not used to the laws of your state.

    You live in Kansas, right Vike? Here's a start:

    http://www.dol.ks.gov/ES/HTML/laws_RES.html

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Viking's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I live in a Right to Work state. I basically have no rights as an employee in the State of Kansas. I'm sure glad I started this thread, just to remind myself what a hell hole I live in.

    I love this one:

    Q. What is the maximum number of hours per day my employer can make me work?
    A. Theoretically your employer can make you work 24 hours a day unless you are under the age of 16. If you are under 16 you cannot work more than 3 hours on a school day and 8 hours on a non-school day.
    "Viking - last to sleep, first to rise, last to leave, that's how the Nords of old rocked the house." ~ timmac in the 'Texas Linkers' thread talking about yours truly. :-)

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium Guitar Shark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I live in a Right to Work state. I basically have no rights as an employee in the State of Kansas. I'm sure glad I started this thread, just to remind myself what a hell hole I live in.

    I love this one:
    I'm sure it's no accident that Amazon decided to open a facility in Kansas. Sounds like your laws are very pro-employer.

  5. #5
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    I think a more fitting one to your situation would be:

    Q. Does my employer have to pay holiday pay?
    A. The law does not require your employer to offer holiday pay, but many employers provide this as a benefit for their employees.
    In essence, it's a freebee 8 hours anyways. Honestly, in my opinion it's a bonehead move to change your schedule (either company wide or by pay group) and not reflect that change in your Holiday hours because obviously it appears to the employees as a jab whether it's within state/federal guidelines or not, and is a morale bummer. Dumb. You don't have a leg to stand on unless your employee manual tells you specifically that holiday pay is equivalent to your regular scheduled hours. I'd focus on that if I were you, and if you find such a statement, inquire with your payroll department.
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Seen's pretty much got it right. Holidays and how they are compensated are largely in the domain of whatever the employer wants to do. States will stick their noses in here or there, but not too often or too deeply. That's not the way I'd write policies, and in fact I've dealt with non-traditional schedules and made those adjustments to the policies, but I don't work for Amazon.

    One little bit of semantics that I think you have wrong - there may be 3 categories, but typically you have "employment at will" states, or "right to work states". Right to work states are HUGELY in favor of the employee. California is one of the few states that is right to work - I might have some of the details wrong, but it essentially gives the employee the "right" to work in a job, much like, say, a union contract does. It limits the employer's ability to fire an employee. Such arrangements usually don't impact benefits except for the fact that a state liberal enough to be right to work is very likely going to be liberal in other areas pertaining to employment law.

    Employment at will is when you or the employer can choose to end the employment at any time for any reason. The caveats are whether there is an employment contract in place that would supersede that, or if the discharge is based on reasons prohibited by law. Even Massachusetts is employment at will, so you can't necessarily draw any conclusions around how employer or employee friendly the state is based on employment at will. I can tell you that a lot of states, especially those either down south or with trouble attracting population, have become exceedingly friendly towards employers to attract companies/plants.

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing! twonabomber's Avatar
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    i work 12's and get 12 hours of holiday pay. when i was still a temp i only got 8 hours of holiday pay.

    the funny thing is that we get 40 hours of sick/personal time, but they'll give you the 8 extra hours penalty free so it's really 4 work days worth.
    "is this a good show tonight, or fuckin' what?" - DLR, Montreal, 11/10/07

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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Viking's Avatar
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    I would say Kansas falls more into the "Employment at Will" category. I know of several people who have been walked to the door for reasons unknown. Recently they fired a woman that was a lead for violating a safety rule, and her husband, apparently just because he was her husband.

    There was also a guy who found another job, and put in 2 weeks notice. They walked him the next day.

    I don't always agree with their policies, but it's their bat and their ball and they make the rules.

    Another thing they do that bugs the shit out of me is, whenever the subject of a raise comes up, they go into this: "Well, we have to conduct a wage survey....", which translates into, "We will check and see what other employers in the area are paying and pay the lowest amount we can to stay competitive." To me, it's wage fixing. I just got a small raise, but gas prices have eaten that up and then some. It costs me about $100 more a month for gas than it did a year ago.

    In reality, I'm just bitching to bitch, but I have to get it off of my chest somehow.
    "Viking - last to sleep, first to rise, last to leave, that's how the Nords of old rocked the house." ~ timmac in the 'Texas Linkers' thread talking about yours truly. :-)

  9. #9
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post

    There was also a guy who found another job, and put in 2 weeks notice. They walked him the next day.
    Actually, regardless of the employment laws, that is a pretty common scenario when you give notice. The thinking is that if an employee is disgruntled enough to quit, there is a risk that they can cause a lot of damage during the two weeks until they leave. There are exceptions of course depending on how integral the person might be to the company but I've seen that happen a lot.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

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  10. #10
    Eruption Interceptor's Avatar
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    This was just a serious issue/argument where I work (my local county road commission.) I work in the engineering department, and we work 5 8 hr. days, while our maintenance dept. (pothole filling, road cleanup etc.) works 4 10's. I'll of course get paid 8 holiday hours for friday, while our maintenance dept. gets tomorrow and Friday off (they get Friday off anyway on 4 10's, and July 3 will be their paid holiday). In order for them to get a 10 hour holiday for July 3rd, they had to work an extra 45 minutes Mon & tues, and an extra 1/2 hr. Wednesday to make up for the 2 hour differential in holiday pay between their department and ours. Needless to say, our union is pissed as hell claiming "a day is a day whether its 10 or 8 hrs.", blah blah, blah. On the flip side though, if they were to get thursday and friday off after putting in 30 hours Mon-Wed, why do I in my situation have to put in 32 hours Mon-thur? I don't know what the answer is, I just know that it's a big deal where I work and probably will continue to be.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor View Post
    On the flip side though, if they were to get thursday and friday off after putting in 30 hours Mon-Wed, why do I in my situation have to put in 32 hours Mon-thur?
    Now, THAT is a damn fine insight, and one I frankly never thought of!!!

    DAMN, and this is what I do for a living.

    I was typically looking at it like someone shouldn't get paid less for a "week" than they normally do because of a holiday. You should get your normal week's pay. However, now that I look at it that way, is it fair to work less hours yet receive the same pay as the person doing 5 8-hour shifts? It actually makes some level of sense that you'd have them work 2 extra hours over those 3 days to get to 32.

    Hunh!

  12. #12
    Unchained Stidham's Avatar
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    When I worked for IBM. We worked 12 hour shifts. They converted our vacation from 8 hours to 12. It seemed like your were getting less time off but you were getting the same # of hours

    For example.

    2 weeks vacation = 80 hours or 10 - 8 hours days.

    80 / 12 = 6.66 days. Which is still two weeks, they were generous and would round up to the next full day.

    Holiday pay was done the same way. First, we'd get the normal 6 or so holidays. New Years, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thankgiving and Christmas then 6 personal choice days for a total of 96 hours. When we went 12 hours we didn't have any paid holidays. We just had 96 hours of personal choice holiday time we could take. If we worked on an actual holiday we hold time and a half.

    Writing this out it looks like we were getting dicked over, but it seemed fair at the time. We had the same number of hours off bottom line.
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