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  1. #1
    Little Dreamer Italy's Avatar
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    06.07.12 @ 04:57 PM
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    Default Tuning instability on an Ibanez RG 220 B

    In the past few months, the tuning stability on my Ibanez has gone south. I have to "set the whammy position" so to speak, where before unlocking the nut, do a couple dive bombs with the bar so it will hold tune when depressing the bar. If I raise the bar, the tuning goes as much as 10 cents sharp!!! I think the problem is the pivot points are wearing out, but the only way I could get new ones is buying the whole new tremolo set from my Ibanez dealer. Does anyone know if something else is the problem or if there is a way I can fix this without getting new posts?

    Here's the tremolo model if it helps:

    2CD1R101B - that's the model # - you can view it at the Ibanez website under Parts then 2005-2007. Sorry if I confused anyone. Any help would be much appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Eruption mk5's Avatar
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    Default

    It's the tremolo. I believe that's a SINGLE locking tremolo, meaning it locks only at the top nut and not at the saddle.

    When you re-string, you probably have to pull the string thru the tremolo
    from the back and up to the tuners?

    I used to have an RG 270 like that and the tremolo was horrible.

    In complete honesty, IMO, if you want it to stay in tune, never use the tremolo. It just won't stay in tune.

    My advice is to sell the guitar and move to an RG3xx or RG4xx with a DOUBLE locking tremolo (locks at both the nut and the tremolo). that will GREATLY help your tuning problems.
    How open-minded do I have to be before my brains start spilling out?

  3. #3
    Eruption
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    07.04.12 @ 08:16 AM
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    Yeah. I never really understood single locking.
    But ,yes, it very well may be the posts.
    Give the Bay a scan before comiting to a whole new trem. If you get a new one, go double.
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  4. #4
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    12.03.10 @ 03:16 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron4406 View Post
    Yeah. I never really understood single locking.
    But ,yes, it very well may be the posts.
    Give the Bay a scan before comiting to a whole new trem. If you get a new one, go double.
    Does this trem have the saddles with the allen cap head screws like a Floyd to adjust the intonation or is it more like a 2 post Fender style? I had one of those Fender hybrid style jobs (a Wilkinson I think) and when I would divebomb, the saddles would shift and surprise surprise it'd go out of tune like that. Also had a Schaller Floyd that had very soft base metal and the allen caps stripped the threads enough to work the saddles loose under use. Had to drill and retap the base, and no problems since. (knock on wood!) Just wondering. Ive heard that adding stronger saddle springs can keep the saddles where you want 'em once set.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  5. #5
    Little Dreamer Italy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk5 View Post
    It's the tremolo. I believe that's a SINGLE locking tremolo, meaning it locks only at the top nut and not at the saddle.

    When you re-string, you probably have to pull the string thru the tremolo
    from the back and up to the tuners?

    I used to have an RG 270 like that and the tremolo was horrible.

    In complete honesty, IMO, if you want it to stay in tune, never use the tremolo. It just won't stay in tune.

    My advice is to sell the guitar and move to an RG3xx or RG4xx with a DOUBLE locking tremolo (locks at both the nut and the tremolo). that will GREATLY help your tuning problems.

    It is double locking. You cut off the ball end and clamp it down. It is licensed by Floyd Rose, and I believe it is a ILT trem.

    Another thing I forgot to say was if I look closely when going up and down with the bar, I can see the trem slightly shifting. It is only noticeable after I go strongly up with it after it being depressed sometime or vice versa.
    Last edited by Italy; 06.23.08 at 03:41 PM.
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  6. #6
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    11.17.15 @ 08:56 PM
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    Sorry, I didn't research your trem on the Ibanez website.
    It's best to post pics if you can as most just don't have the personal interest to do that sort of research. (no offense)

    You neglected to say when exactly this trem goes out of tune ...
    * during lock-down?
    * When the bar is used?
    * All the time?

    It's VERY rare that the posts themselves will go bad.
    Without seeing your guitar, or even knowing what type of trem you have specifically, I would first check the following ...

    * If you have a locking nut that bolts through the neck, make sure it's nice and tight.
    * If it's a top mount, make sure it's secure and does not "shift".
    * inspect the pads and string grooves on the locking nut and make sure they're not worn.
    * If it's a top mounted trem, make sure the baseplate is mounted flush with the body.
    * If it's a recessed trem, make sure the baseplate is level with the body.
    To do this, you'll have to equal out the tension of the strings (to pitch) with the trem springs from the backside. If you've changed the gauge of strings you've been using to something different, this may explain why you feel the tuning stability has "gone down hill" and you will have to make the proper adjustments to compensate.

    Also, if the trem is not level with the body, sometimes your playing technique (for example, resting your hand on the bridge) may cause the guitar to go out of tune.

    * Finally, check the knife edge of the baseplate which make contact with the trem posts. If they're dull or have flat spots, sharpen them up!

    If none of the above applies ... post a pic.
    Last edited by Dino5150; 06.23.08 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #7
    Romeo Delight bmstang's Avatar
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  8. #8
    Little Dreamer Italy's Avatar
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    06.07.12 @ 04:57 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino5150 View Post
    Sorry, I didn't research your trem on the Ibanez website.
    It's best to post pics if you can as most just don't have the personal interest to do that sort of research. (no offense)

    You neglected to say when exactly this trem goes out of tune ...
    * during lock-down?
    * When the bar is used?
    * All the time?

    It's VERY rare that the posts themselves will go bad.
    Without seeing your guitar, or even knowing what type of trem you have specifically, I would first check the following ...

    * If you have a locking nut that bolts through the neck, make sure it's nice and tight.
    * If it's a top mount, make sure it's secure and does not "shift".
    * inspect the pads and string grooves on the locking nut and make sure they're not worn.
    * If it's a top mounted trem, make sure the baseplate is mounted flush with the body.
    * If it's a recessed trem, make sure the baseplate is level with the body.
    To do this, you'll have to equal out the tension of the strings (to pitch) with the trem springs from the backside. If you've changed the gauge of strings you've been using to something different, this may explain why you feel the tuning stability has "gone down hill" and you will have to make the proper adjustments to compensate.

    Also, if the trem is not level with the body, sometimes your playing technique (for example, resting your hand on the bridge) may cause the guitar to go out of tune.

    * Finally, check the knife edge of the baseplate which make contact with the trem posts. If they're dull or have flat spots, sharpen them up!

    If none of the above applies ... post a pic.
    Sorry about that - When it is locked down fully, the tuning changes as I use the bar. That depends on how the bar was 'set' so to speak. If the last time the bar was used it was depressed, then the tuning will go sharp if I pull up. Same if it was raised, it will lower. So if tuning is fine when set 'down', after pulling up it will go sharp. However, it will also slowly go out flat when set down and depressing. I hope this is making more sense - I really don't know how to describe this. I've noticed wear almost everywhere - at the knife point, the nut and the pads, and just a little at the saddles. I bought this guitar used in 2005-ish, and nothing has been changed except one or two new clamps in the saddles. I'm trying to check everything and cover it all, so sorry if I leave anything out.
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  9. #9
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    Well, if "everything is worn", that's a problem.

    Do you have a retaining bar on the headstock?
    If so, try lowering it some to give the strings more of a pitch coming off the nut.
    This will help prevent the strings from sliding back and forth through the pads when it's locked down.

  10. #10
    Little Dreamer Italy's Avatar
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    I realized all I'm trying to say is its not returning to zero or neutral when I use it. Is that anymore help?
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  11. #11
    Little Dreamer Italy's Avatar
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    I just found on the Tremol-no website that the cause can be non-lubricated knife edges. I'll do this tonight and get back to you guys. Thanks so much for all of the help.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italy View Post
    I realized all I'm trying to say is its not returning to zero or neutral when I use it. Is that anymore help?

    WoW ... you could have saved us both alot of writing with that statement.

  13. #13
    Good Enough Ace Ventura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italy View Post
    I realized all I'm trying to say is its not returning to zero or neutral when I use it. Is that anymore help?
    If it's not returning to neutral or the same tuned position, it may be the springs. From what you are describing though, it sounds as if someone beat the shit out of the trem and has worn the posts......as difficult as that may be....
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Ventura View Post
    If it's not returning to neutral or the same tuned position, it may be the springs. From what you are describing though, it sounds as if someone beat the shit out of the trem and has worn the posts......as difficult as that may be....
    The knife edge will go long before the posts themselves will wear out.
    And I've never seen a trem spring go "bad" ... but I guess there's a first time for everything.

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    12.14.17 @ 03:08 PM
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    I know far less than most of our "nut-and-bolt" guys around here...but isn't there basically THREE areas that could affect something like this?

    1. Springs - I agree with Dino, springs just don't go bad. Some are "softer" than others (which you didn't change out, right?), but they just don't "go bad".

    2. Trem knife egde and posts - Again, gotta agree with Dino. You're gonna notice if/when the knife edges go bad...you can usually SEE the wear/damage. Then again, I've got a 25-year-old Charvel with chipped knife edges and it still stays in tune...with heavy trem usage.

    And it would take A LOT of beating to get a post to go bad.

    ** HOWEVER **
    What condition are the post holes in? Do the posts and/or post sleeves "wiggle" in their holes? This could very easily happen over time...especially with lower end guitars/guitars made from inferior woods.

    Which leaves us with...

    3. Locking Nut area - My suggestion would be to lower the string retainer a little, and go get a new "nut pad and screw set" from any place that sells parts. Guitar Center has an Allparts package for $12.

    The nut pads DO wear out (more quickly compared to the other trem parts), and the couple of times I've had tuning issues in the past like this, replacing the nut pads has always been the ultimate fix.

    Long-winded, yes...but any thoughts from those more "in-the-know"?

 

 

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