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  1. #1
    Eruption
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    Default Why wasn't Dave bigger when he first went solo?

    * The singles from Diver Down had the following chart positions: 12, 38 and 4 non charters
    * The singles from 1984 had the following chart positions: 1, 13, 13, 56
    * The singles from 5150 had the following chart positions: no chart, 22, 22, no chart, 3
    The singles from OU812 had the following chart positions: 5, 34, 13, 2 non charters, 35

    * The singles from Crazy From The Heat had the following chart positions: 3, 12, no chart
    * The singles from Eat 'Em and Smile had the following chart positions: 16, 66, 85, no chart
    * The singles from Skyscraper had the following chart positions: no chart, 6, 64, no chart

    In terms of album chart positions:
    * Diver Down - 3
    * 1984 - 2
    * 5150 - 1
    * OU812 - 1

    * Crazy from the Heat - 15
    * Eat 'Em and Smile - 4
    Skyscraper - 6

    I think it's safe to say Dave was not doing that badly compared to Van Halen in terms of positions. His singles were doing pretty well and his albums were a little way but not hugely behind.

    And yet Diver Down got 4x Platinum, 1984 got 10x Platinum, 5150 got 6x Platinum, OU812 got 4x Platinum.....the first 3 releases Dave made went Platinum

    Dave's 1986 and 1988 tours were both pretty much sold out too.

    Now, I know VH was a bigger name, though DLR was a big name who was guaranteed some success just because he was DLR - whatever product he put out. And I know DLR didn't tour Crazy From The Heat. But he did get out his post-VH album faster than they got their post-DLR one out and he sold out two tours.

    If you compare his chart positions and tour success to VH, even if he wasn't doing quite as well, I would have guessed his albums could get higher than Platinum status. People tend to focus on what went wrong AFTER that. And while it's true that DLR's sales stopped while VH backsales continued, 5150 did get 3x Platinum in 1986 and was at 4x Platinum by the end of 1989. Meanwhile OU812 was 2x Platinum in 1988 and 3x Platinum by the end of 1989

    Any ideas on the matter?

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    06.14.17 @ 06:46 PM
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    Speaking for myself, David Lee Roth has never held much interest for me unless Eddie Van Halen was standing to him.

  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 09:41 AM
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    My guess is that Dave almost personified the 80's excess flamboyance. If you're hot one year, the next, you most certainly are not. It took him too long to change with the times and in popular music that is pretty important.

    Also, VH went a commerical direction whilst Dave's first two albums really were aimed at the rock crowd. Smaller audience, smaller sales.
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

    My blog at http://tollins.blogspot.de/

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Who knows? The essence of "Stardom" is of such a fleeting nature in this country. You can blame the lack of continued success on material that failed to capture the public's fancy, changing times and obsessions, ect, there are dozens of factors.

    Steve Gutenberg actually captured the nation's attention for a short while. Explaining the mystery behind his success is as equally baffling as explaining Dave's album sales reaching diminishing returns. Yet hell, Styx had a fairly large fan base as well, and only one of those nitwits (Tommy Shaw) went on to moderate success after the band ceased operations.

    When's the last time you heard of anything threatening the upper reaches of the sales charts by Cyndi Lauper, Huey Lewis or Hootie And The Blowfish? They were huge, yet the public sometimes gets tired of certain acts and moves on to other things. That's the way the business is. The line "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" seems to apply perfectly to the situation, as Roth himself has stated: "Here today, gone later today".
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
    George Bernard Shaw

  5. #5
    Eruption
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    In the UK the 80s music scene was just....the US music scene, so it's not gotten into our cultural legacy and concequently largely been forgotten. I might not like 90s pop, but we had a scene of our own at least, a more significant one...so I don't really know anything about the 80s beyond the LA glam/punk/sleaze scene and Michael Jackson. So all this is kinda alien to me.

  6. #6
    Eruption nicholas_kudochop's Avatar
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    08.08.17 @ 07:08 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menlow View Post
    Speaking for myself, David Lee Roth has never held much interest for me unless Eddie Van Halen was standing to him.
    I think that's true for a lot of people, and a big part of the success issue in general...

  7. #7
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    08.19.10 @ 08:10 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menlow View Post
    Speaking for myself, David Lee Roth has never held much interest for me unless Eddie Van Halen was standing to him.

    That goes for me as well.

  8. #8
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholas_kudochop View Post
    I think that's true for a lot of people, and a big part of the success issue in general...
    Good musicianship is far from the only thing involved in musical success. Case in point: Poison have sold about 25 million albums.

    Linkin Park made the best selling debut album this decade thus far (Hybrid Theory, approx 24 million copies). Appetite for Destruction, with 28 million copies worldwide, is the current best seller. But Appetite had a 13 year head start, Linkin Park are a far stronger commercial force than Guns N' Roses by far now....Linkin Park will end up taking the all time title away from Appetite within the next 10-15 years. I'd say Slash is more iconic than anyone in that band.

    If an artist is marketed well enough they become huge. It's just one of those things. OK, so a good musician will usually do pretty well, and sometimes people get lucky, but all the same....Roth's albums were far from pop, but I would definitely call them pop rock, or "mainstream" rock music.

  9. #9
    Good Enough Tropical Storm Tracey's Avatar
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    11.18.17 @ 07:19 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menlow View Post
    Speaking for myself, David Lee Roth has never held much interest for me unless Eddie Van Halen was standing to him.
    Ditto this...I always preferred VH with Dave but that was the VH I grew up with. I didn't hold much interest with Dave solo or Sammy solo for that matter. Did learn to appreciate Sammy with VH though. So looks like the common denominator was Ed for a lot of people...hmmmmm?

    TST<-----------time to take a nap-------------

  10. #10
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Elfoid_TFS View Post
    Why wasn't Dave bigger when he first went solo?
    Because he was just a gigolo.


  11. #11
    Eruption lmr5150's Avatar
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    08.06.17 @ 05:19 PM
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    DLR had a great back up band over the years- Vai, Sheehan, Bissonette, etc. But it is also goes to the problem with being a solo artist. I have no doubt that Vai/Sheehan did their best (as all of his band members did), but it was the DLR show. And I am not sure that there was that necessary creative tension to produce really great music.

    Also, when LAE came about in 90/91, 80s rock was on the decline and YFLM in 1994/95 (the height of grunge) did not reverse the trend.

    Speaking of creative tension. Gary was too nice of a guy and VH III was an EVH solo record. That is why HMSI ever saw the light of day.
    I don't have a cool signature. Deal with it!

  12. #12
    Eruption nicholas_kudochop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Elfoid_TFS View Post
    Good musicianship is far from the only thing involved in musical success. Case in point: Poison have sold about 25 million albums.

    I didn't say it was. I know it isn't. I was referring to a lot of people following Van Halen for Eddie.

  13. #13
    Forum Frontman Double Down's Avatar
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    11.17.17 @ 12:11 PM
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    It's simple: Van Halen is EDDIE Van Halen. Dave thought he was the cat's meow and his ego got the best of him. Dave needed Van Halen more than Van Halen needed Dave.


    Whether Dave wants to admit it or not, Eddie has always been the real draw and appeal of Van Halen. We all loved Dave, but let's face it, it was Eddie that reeled us in. It was Eddie that we wanted to see in the videos. It was Eddie with the killer guitar playing. It was Eddie's smile - not Dave's - that made the chicks wet.

    And it's Eddie more than anyone who has frustrated us the past 10+ years.

    No Dave = the band can go on in one form or another.
    No Eddie = there is no band. Shut out the lights.
    Last edited by Double Down; 05.26.08 at 02:57 PM.
    .
    .
    .
    VH with Dave ('78-'84) - The best years....the "real" VH.
    VH with Sam ('86-'96) - Incredible era....."We have renamed this town 'New Halen!'.
    VH with Gary ('98) - Fucking disaster. WTF was that??
    VH with Wolf/Dave ('12-'15) - Amazing comeback. Smokin' album and tours.

  14. #14
    Forum Frontman
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    Dave probably thought he could do no wrong. We've all made big decisions rooted in--and clouded by--arrogance that later turned out to be a major wake-up call. Dave was, what, 30 when he left VH? When you've been riding high for the better part of your 20s (an era of life where you think you know it all but really don't), it's easy to see why he might've thought there was no coming down. And he drastically underestimated the contributions of his VH bandmates.

    I ask this, though: How much longer would VH have lasted if DLR had stayed in the band? Eddie was veering away from the riff rock of the past and much more toward songwriting. Would Dave have been able to keep things interesting, or would we have heard his not-quite-as-cool lyrics and melodies, characteristic of some of his solo work, on top of the "newer" VH material?

    I think the Hagar era actually extended the life of VH as a regular working band, and that could have even lasted a little longer had things not gotten so terribly dysfunctional. (But it was always dysfunctional--just more pronounced toward the end.) 1984 was an incredibly strong album, and perhaps we should be grateful we never saw the decline of Roth with Van Halen.
    Last edited by AT; 05.26.08 at 03:02 PM.

  15. #15
    Ed's Future Ex-Wife
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    12.06.08 @ 07:18 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
    It's simple: Van Halen is EDDIE Van Halen. Dave thought he was the cat's meow and his ego got the best of him. Dave needed Van Halen more than Van Halen needed Dave.


    Whether Dave wants to admit it or not, Eddie has always been the real draw and appeal of Van Halen. We all loved Dave, but let's face it, it was Eddie that reeled us in. It was Eddie that we wanted to see in the videos. It was Eddie with the killer guitar playing. It was Eddie's smile - not Dave's - that made the chicks wet.

    And it's Eddie more than anyone who has frustrated us the past 10+ years.

    No Dave = the band can go on in one form or another.
    No Eddie = there is no band. Shut out the lights.
    +1,000
    Stay strong, Edward!

 

 

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