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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default the ultimate in "nanny government."

    Proposed car-smoking ban angers foes of 'nanny' laws
    -They don't want state dictating how kids are brought up


    When Anthony Johnson smokes in the car with his 2-year-old son in the backseat, he tries to limit himself to a few quick puffs and blows the smoke out the window.

    "I feel guilty when I'm doing it," said Johnson, 33, of Oakland, adding that he tries not to. "I know it's wrong."

    Soon, it could be illegal.

    A proposal to ban smoking in cars with children inside, to be heard Wednesday in the state Senate's health committee, is the third bill in three months that has taken California's Legislature into arenas some say are better left to parents. The first would have outlawed spanking, and debate continues over whether to mandate vaccinating seventh-grade girls against a sexually transmitted disease that causes cervical cancer. California is one of at least 16 states considering bans on smoking in cars with children present.

    Critics call it the ultimate in "nanny government."

    "Who is the state to tell you how you can and cannot raise your children?" asked Robert Best of Ventura, state coordinator of the Smoker's Club Inc., a smokers' rights group.

    "There's a fine line between protecting my child and moving in to raise my child," added Best, who is not a parent. "A car is private property. ... What will they do next, say you can't smoke in your home if you have kids in it?"

    Even if smoking around children is a bad idea, it isn't the government's job to stop people from doing it, said Walter Williams, a conservative commentator who has written about the nanny state.

    "If we justify things on the basis of what's good for people, there's no end in sight," said Williams, an economics professor at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va.

    Williams, a smoker himself, asked if government should require an 8 p.m. bedtime for children, or educational television over video games.

    Smoking ban author Sen. Jenny Oropeza, D-Long Beach, said prohibiting smoking in a car in public view is not an invasion of privacy, and she scoffed at the "nanny government" tag.

    "When we're talking about children's health -- life and death -- I do think there's a role for government," said Oropeza, a liver cancer survivor who resurrected the ban after two previous failed attempts. "It's foolish and irresponsible to do anything less than we can to prevent exposing children to this carcinogen."

    A ban proposed in Connecticut was suggested by a fifth-grader.

    "If you can't eat or drink or talk on a cell phone while driving a vehicle, how can you still smoke?" asked Justin Kvadas, 10, of East Hartford, who testified before his state's legislature.

    "I think the government should have a say because of all the dangers," Justin said in an interview. "Kids breathe faster and are inhaling more of the toxic chemicals."

    Citing studies by the U.S. surgeon general and the California Environmental Protection Agency, the American Lung Association says babies' and children's exposure to secondhand smoke contributes to asthma, lower respiratory tract and ear infections and sudden infant death syndrome.

    Arkansas, Louisiana and Puerto Rico passed such laws last year, and the city of Bangor, Maine, followed suit earlier this year. Other states now considering bans include Arizona, Illinois, Massachusetts, Montana and Utah, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

    Oropeza's bill, SB7, would make it an infraction punishable by a fine of $100 to smoke a cigarette, cigar or pipe in a car containing anyone under 18. The driver would not have to commit another traffic offense to be pulled over. Last year's bill would have prohibited smoking in a car where there's a child in a car seat.

    Oropeza said she believes a growing public awareness of the dangers of secondhand smoke will make the difference in passing the ban this year despite its previous failures.

    While the proportion of adults who smoke in California has fallen to an all-time low of 14 percent, there still are nearly 4 million smokers, according to state figures.

    David Sutton, a spokesman for Philip Morris USA, the country's leading cigarette manufacturer, declined to comment on whether the company plans to lobby against the proposed bans in California and elsewhere. But he said the company believes the public "should be guided by the conclusions of public health officials regarding the health effects of secondhand smoke" and "particular care should be exercised where children are concerned."

    Bill Henby, a lobbyist for the California Organization of Police and Sheriffs, which represents 10,000 law enforcement officers, said the group won't oppose the bill but doesn't think the state's chronically understaffed police departments will become cigarette cops.

    "While we support the concept because we're concerned about things that are cancer-producing, it's almost impossible to enforce," said Henby, who said the bill's requirement of a state public education campaign would have a greater effect than enforcement.

    Williams, the George Mason economist, said legislators should not be telling parents they can't spank their kids -- a proposal dropped by California Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, after a public outcry -- or mandating that seventh-grade girls be vaccinated against human papillomavirus, two strains of which cause more than two-thirds of cervical cancer cases, though infection by those strains is rare. Mandatory vaccination against the sexually transmitted disease, with the possibility for parents to opt out, is being considered in 20 states including California, where Assemblyman Ed Hernandez, D-Baldwin Park (Los Angeles County), withdrew a bill this month but is expected to re-introduce it in April.

    "It's a slippery slope," said Williams, who occasionally guest hosts Rush Limbaugh's conservative talk radio show. "Government should get involved if a parent is grossly abusing kids, something that's clearly abuse -- black eyes, broken bones, starving kids to death."

    But Stephen Sugarman, a professor at UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall School of Law who writes about parents' and children's rights, said government interventions -- such as fluoridating water, requiring movie ratings or mandating car seats -- can be "parent-power enhancing."

    "Is what's going on running roughshod over parenting or providing what most people want?" he asked.

    Jacqueline Wilson, 18, of Oakland said it used to bother her when her mother smoked in the car -- until she started smoking herself.

    But she still thinks government should butt out.

    "I think that's government stepping in on family matters," she said.

    But Paula Daryanani, an Alameda mother of two who smokes, said she has no problem with the car-smoking ban.

    "I don't smoke in the car with the kids" because of the health dangers and distraction, said Daryanani, who is trying to quit smoking.

    Johnson, the Oakland dad, also supports the ban.

    "If it's a proven fact (that secondhand smoke) could harm kids, that's child endangerment," he said.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.Ē -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    11.30.17 @ 06:15 PM
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    While I would not smoke anywhere around my kids, I do agree that it is absolutely none of the governments damned business where I smoke and who I smoke around, especially when it comes to my own private property.

    ...and I don't smoke.
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  3. #3
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 09:52 PM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seenbad View Post
    While I would not smoke anywhere around my kids, I do agree that it is absolutely none of the governments damned business where I smoke and who I smoke around, especially when it comes to my own private property.

    ...and I don't smoke.

    I agree, with everything you just said Seen.
    ((Just My Two Cents))
    And thats about what its worth.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    "If it's a proven fact (that secondhand smoke) could harm kids, that's child endangerment," he said.
    I have to say, I agree with this one.

    Not putting your butt out for the sake of a child's lungs is just plain selfish. Their health and well-being is more important than your pleasure.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    06.14.17 @ 06:46 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    I have to say, I agree with this one.

    Not putting your butt out for the sake of a child's lungs is just plain selfish. Their health and well-being is more important than your pleasure.
    I agree as well.

    The child can't choose not to ride in the car. Why should they be forced to breathe in dangerous smoke in a confined place?

  6. #6
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    Would you also agree that spanking should be outlawed?

    Probably not.

    The thing with this is, where do we draw the line on what government should be involved with and what shouldn't they be involved with. And, who makes that decision...in the government.

    Slippery slope to losing your personal rights in America.

    For the kids!
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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenbad View Post
    Would you also agree that spanking should be outlawed?
    Good question.

    But we're talking about smoking, which can endanger a child's physical heath.

    Spanking does not.
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  8. #8
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    It is a good question. But as has been said, it's not like the kid can say, "Stop the car and let me out, I'm tired of breathing your pollution". Having your child in close quarters in an automobile and forcing them to breathe your filth is just cruel and unusual punishment. You'd think parents would be smarter and more considerate. At least with a spanking, you are hoping it's being done as a punishment (and not to the extent of beating), and personally, I'm not sure I'd want to live in a world where spanking is illegal. Too many kids are running wild with no respect as it is.

    Bottom line, it's too bad that we even have the need to try to legislate common sense.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post

    Bottom line, it's too bad that we even have the need to try to legislate common sense.
    Good lord how i agree!!!

    But common sense is not as birth-provided as one would hope! The fascination with TMZ and the fucking Pussycat Dolls tv series should be evidence enough of that!
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  10. #10
    Sinner's Swing! Darkstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    Good lord how i agree!!!

    But common sense is not as birth-provided as one would hope! The fascination with TMZ and the fucking Pussycat Dolls tv series should be evidence enough of that!
    Yeah and how 'bout those wack-jobs over at that place called vhlinks? Even MORE proof, I tell ya!
    Love should NOT be work, it should be as easy as breathing Dave's Dreidel

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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
    Yeah and how 'bout those wack-jobs over at that place called vhlinks? Even MORE proof, I tell ya!
    We've got an American Idol thread going. You're more right than you think!
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    Sinner's Swing! Darkstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    We've got an American Idol thread going. You're more right than you think!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
    Love should NOT be work, it should be as easy as breathing Dave's Dreidel

    My god, our government has less secrets than Van Halen. Emperor Brett

    I'm a Democrat and an Atheist, but I've yet to receive my ticket to Hell. Is this something I call Live Nation about or what? JakeK21

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  13. #13
    Unchained mojavebassman's Avatar
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    While I don't smoke anymore and when I did it was only when I was at a gig with a drink in my hand, but if I had to smoke while driving and my daughter was with me, pulling over to smoke outside the car would make the most sense but I'm in the midwest where we don't get into too much of hurry to do anything or get anywhere too quickly. Coming from a state that has a smoking ban in most public places, I don't quite know whose rights should be more protected: The smoker or the non-smoker. Either way, some freedoms are being taken away and that's never good.

  14. #14
    Unchained Judgement Day's Avatar
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    I'm a smoker so I tend to get a little more pissed about stuff like this, but I should also say that I do not smoke when my 3 yr old niece and 1 yr old nephew are in the car. I know the 3yr old doesn't like because she let me know the one time I did light up. So there goes the argument that kids won't let you know if it bothers them.

    As far as the government telling us what we can and cannot do in the confines of our own car, I have to say that it is a load of horse shit. If they keep bringing up bills such as this and if more and more actually are passed I certainly dread what the future brings for us as a nation and as individuals. The pussyfication of America knows no bounds.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judgement Day View Post
    As far as the government telling us what we can and cannot do in the confines of our own car, I have to say that it is a load of horse shit. If they keep bringing up bills such as this and if more and more actually are passed I certainly dread what the future brings for us as a nation and as individuals. The pussyfication of America knows no bounds.
    Well said.

    While I agree that people should not smoke in cars when there are kids present, I also believe that it is a choice the parents should be making, and not the government.
    "What we are dealing with here, is a complete lack of respect for the law" - Jackie Gleason, Smokey and the Bandit

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