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Thread: What if

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    Little Dreamer
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    How do you think the 04 tour would have ended up if Ed had been sober. I think we would have new music, as I realy think if the bros thought about it, it would be best for the legacy with a real singer who can contribute musically. Roth is good for nostalgia but moving forward they needed Sam and Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samfan17 View Post
    How do you think the 04 tour would have ended up if Ed had been sober. I think we would have new music, as I realy think if the bros thought about it, it would be best for the legacy with a real singer who can contribute musically. Roth is good for nostalgia but moving forward they needed Sam and Mike.
    I'd take a new album with Sam or Dave as long as Mike is bassin' it up and Ed is clean and sober.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    I'd take a new album with Sam or Dave as long as Mike is bassin' it up and Ed is clean and sober.
    Can I get an....AMEN!!!
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

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    That was my point but I think it would be stronger with sam, my bias I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    I'd take a new album with Sam or Dave as long as Mike is bassin' it up and Ed is clean and sober.
    I'll take all four original members drunk or sober!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Women And Roth First View Post
    I'll take all four original members drunk or sober!
    Yes, I know you will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by samfan17 View Post
    That was my point but I think it would be stronger with sam, my bias I guess.
    No you were completely right. I agree with you 100%. The minute Ed came out of rehab last summer I thought he would try and go back with Sam.

    I honestly think that VH's shot at making progressive, good music was lost when Sam left in 2004 and when Mike was fired in 2006.

    A record with Dave will be successful because of the word of mouth...just like the tour....22 years is a long time....and don't get me wrong.....an album of Me Wise Magic type material would be great!

    However...

    The problem with MWM I've been finding is....it's very obvious to me now that that music in that song was written while Sammy was in the band.....in my opinion.....everything from the verse, especially the chorus....is all Sam era Van Halen writing.....more proof that Ed changed the sound more than Sam did....

    Compare Humans Being to Me Wise Magic.....you might say there are no similarities at all.....but there are SO MANY ways they are similar...
    1. Both songs have low and dark intros

    2. Both songs have dark verse sections

    However,

    3. Both songs have big, more up-lifting choruses....something that was TEXTBOOK Sam-era Van Halen.....Dave's era rarely had big up-lifting choruses....they had big chorus sections.....but not from one extreme to another....

    I have been listening to MWM a lot lately and found these similarities.....this is probably part of the reaosn why Dave didn't like the experience of recording too much....because it was basically a recycled song list to choose from....most of which were written while Sam was in the band....and were written to fit Sam's lyrical structure and style.
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

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    that is why this gets silly, prejudice over reality oops not in time, a couple up
    Last edited by samfan17; 03.22.08 at 10:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Women And Roth First View Post
    I'll take all four original members drunk or sober!
    Yeah you'd take them drunk or sober...and you would have your way with them? Is that what you meant?
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

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    I would love for all of us to put reality over prejudise. I am as guilty i guess but I think of songwriting and voice over cheesy showmanship. In my opinion LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvH_316_5150 View Post
    No you were completely right. I agree with you 100%. The minute Ed came out of rehab last summer I thought he would try and go back with Sam.

    I honestly think that VH's shot at making progressive, good music was lost when Sam left in 2004 and when Mike was fired in 2006.

    A record with Dave will be successful because of the word of mouth...just like the tour....22 years is a long time....and don't get me wrong.....an album of Me Wise Magic type material would be great!

    However...

    The problem with MWM I've been finding is....it's very obvious to me now that that music in that song was written while Sammy was in the band.....in my opinion.....everything from the verse, especially the chorus....is all Sam era Van Halen writing.....more proof that Ed changed the sound more than Sam did....

    Compare Humans Being to Me Wise Magic.....you might say there are no similarities at all.....but there are SO MANY ways they are similar...
    1. Both songs have low and dark intros

    2. Both songs have dark verse sections

    However,

    3. Both songs have big, more up-lifting choruses....something that was TEXTBOOK Sam-era Van Halen.....Dave's era rarely had big up-lifting choruses....they had big chorus sections.....but not from one extreme to another....

    I have been listening to MWM a lot lately and found these similarities.....this is probably part of the reaosn why Dave didn't like the experience of recording too much....because it was basically a recycled song list to choose from....most of which were written while Sam was in the band....and were written to fit Sam's lyrical structure and style.

    Damn someone who agres exactly what I feel, cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvH_316_5150 View Post
    No you were completely right. I agree with you 100%. The minute Ed came out of rehab last summer I thought he would try and go back with Sam.

    I honestly think that VH's shot at making progressive, good music was lost when Sam left in 2004 and when Mike was fired in 2006.

    A record with Dave will be successful because of the word of mouth...just like the tour....22 years is a long time....and don't get me wrong.....an album of Me Wise Magic type material would be great!

    However...

    The problem with MWM I've been finding is....it's very obvious to me now that that music in that song was written while Sammy was in the band.....in my opinion.....everything from the verse, especially the chorus....is all Sam era Van Halen writing.....more proof that Ed changed the sound more than Sam did....

    Compare Humans Being to Me Wise Magic.....you might say there are no similarities at all.....but there are SO MANY ways they are similar...
    1. Both songs have low and dark intros

    2. Both songs have dark verse sections

    However,

    3. Both songs have big, more up-lifting choruses....something that was TEXTBOOK Sam-era Van Halen.....Dave's era rarely had big up-lifting choruses....they had big chorus sections.....but not from one extreme to another....

    I have been listening to MWM a lot lately and found these similarities.....this is probably part of the reaosn why Dave didn't like the experience of recording too much....because it was basically a recycled song list to choose from....most of which were written while Sam was in the band....and were written to fit Sam's lyrical structure and style.

    Mate, you have to be kidding!?!?!?

    Listen to the lyrics of MWM and tell me that that is anything but classic Dave. Now I am not a Rothtard. I do prefer the classic 6 but I also like a lot of Sammy Era, of which F.U.C.K. was clearly the best....BUT....when I listened to MWM and CGTSNM, it was CLASSIC Dave era VH. CGTSNM is a SHUFFLE for chrissakes, you dont get any more Dave era than that.

    You say that listening to MWM it was very obvious that it was written during the Sammy era? Well of course it was, it is chronologically inpossible for it not to be, however it is also just as obvious that it would have just been Ed's part and Dave has come in and DLR'ed it into a VH song.

    It is VERY obvious (and I am also sure it has been documented by Ed) that almost ALL of the Sammy era up to F.U.C.K was written during the DLR era. I also think it is no surprise that VH songwriting declined significantly from that time on....I think Ed ran out of the good stuff (although there area few worthy bits on Balance such as the immigrant song...oops sorry Seventh Seal).

    I find it funny that you chose Humans Being as the archetype Sammy era song to define a well written song. I agree that it is probably one of the best VH songs post 84 however it had NOTHING to do with Sammy. It has been well documented by Ed & Sammy ( in his unreleased book) that Ed couldnt get Sammy to come and work on Humans Being for the movie and this is ostensibly the reason for the split in 96. Sammy turned up and spat out some lyrics about knuckles turning white and wind and it was chucked out by Ed & the movie producer. Ed pissed Sammy off and went and rewrote the song with Glen Ballard. They also used Desmond Child for songwriting during the Sammy years.

    If you are determined to compare, to see what the possible future paths would have been...the only valid comparisons are the most recent, which means we have to compare MWM & CGTSNM, with UFB, IAT and the other one that I can't even remember right now.

    I know you are a Sam fan, which is cool,,,but you have to be fair dinkum.

    Glenn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenninaus View Post
    Mate, you have to be kidding!?!?!?

    Listen to the lyrics of MWM and tell me that that is anything but classic Dave. Now I am not a Rothtard. I do prefer the classic 6 but I also like a lot of Sammy Era, of which F.U.C.K. was clearly the best....BUT....when I listened to MWM and CGTSNM, it was CLASSIC Dave era VH. CGTSNM is a SHUFFLE for chrissakes, you dont get any more Dave era than that.

    You say that listening to MWM it was very obvious that it was written during the Sammy era? Well of course it was, it is chronologically inpossible for it not to be, however it is also just as obvious that it would have just been Ed's part and Dave has come in and DLR'ed it into a VH song.

    It is VERY obvious (and I am also sure it has been documented by Ed) that almost ALL of the Sammy era up to F.U.C.K was written during the DLR era. I also think it is no surprise that VH songwriting declined significantly from that time on....I think Ed ran out of the good stuff (although there area few worthy bits on Balance such as the immigrant song...oops sorry Seventh Seal).

    I find it funny that you chose Humans Being as the archetype Sammy era song to define a well written song. I agree that it is probably one of the best VH songs post 84 however it had NOTHING to do with Sammy. It has been well documented by Ed & Sammy ( in his unreleased book) that Ed couldnt get Sammy to come and work on Humans Being for the movie and this is ostensibly the reason for the split in 96. Sammy turned up and spat out some lyrics about knuckles turning white and wind and it was chucked out by Ed & the movie producer. Ed pissed Sammy off and went and rewrote the song with Glen Ballard. They also used Desmond Child for songwriting during the Sammy years.

    If you are determined to compare, to see what the possible future paths would have been...the only valid comparisons are the most recent, which means we have to compare MWM & CGTSNM, with UFB, IAT and the other one that I can't even remember right now.

    I know you are a Sam fan, which is cool,,,but you have to be fair dinkum.

    Glenn
    I am not a Sam fan...I am not a Dave fan...I am a Van Halen fan....and I wasn't comparing lyrical content....I was comparing the music.....you are comparing LYRICS....


    And MWM and CGTSNM...is NOT classic Dave era VH....I respect your opinion....but So This is Love is classic Dave era....I'm the One is classic Dave era.....

    MWM and CGTSNM....is Dave trying to be classic.....the music is what held those songs up....

    And where in God's name do you hear the Immigrant Song in Seventh Seal? Please explain

    And Humans Being was a well written song....musically.

    Look at it this way....

    On the first 6 albums could you picture Sam's voice on any of those tracks? I HOPE NOT....I know I don't.

    On the 4 albums they recorded with Sam....could you picture Dave's voice on any of those? I HOPE NOT....I can't...(maybe Judgement Day and HB but that's it)..

    On MWM and CGTSNM...could you picture Sam's voice on those tracks? I CAN...easily....in fact....Sam's voice almost fits THAT type of music more....in my opinion
    MWM maybe more so than CGTSNM


    and what do I have to be fair about? I'm not knocking anybody.
    Last edited by MF5150; 03.22.08 at 11:00 PM.
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    their music is mediocre apart but magic together. take it at face value. pick a singer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvH_316_5150 View Post
    I am not a Sam fan...I am not a Dave fan...I am a Van Halen fan....and I wasn't comparing lyrical content....I was comparing the music.....you are comparing LYRICS....


    And MWM and CGTSNM...is NOT classic Dave era VH....I respect your opinion....but So This is Love is classic Dave era....I'm the One is classic Dave era.....

    MWM and CGTSNM....is Dave trying to be classic.....the music is what held those songs up....

    And where in God's name do you hear the Immigrant Song in Seventh Seal? Please explain

    And Humans Being was a well written song....musically.

    Look at it this way....

    On the first 6 albums could you picture Sam's voice on any of those tracks? I HOPE NOT....I know I don't.

    On the 4 albums they recorded with Sam....could you picture Dave's voice on any of those? I HOPE NOT....I can't...(maybe Judgement Day and HB but that's it)..

    On MWM and CGTSNM...could you picture Sam's voice on those tracks? I CAN...easily....in fact....Sam's voice almost fits THAT type of music more....in my opinion
    MWM maybe more so than CGTSNM


    and what do I have to be fair about? I'm not knocking anybody.




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