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  1. #1
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    Default Berkeley to Marines: You're 'not welcome in our city'

    From CNN.com
    Berkeley, the famously liberal college town in California, has taken aim at Marine recruiters, saying they are "not welcome in our city."

    Republican lawmakers in Washington fired back this week, threatening to take back more than $2 million of federal funding to the city as well as money designated for the University of California-Berkeley, the campus that became a haven of protests during the Vietnam War.

    The battle erupted after the Berkeley City Council approved a measure last week urging the Marine recruiters to leave their downtown office.

    "If recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders," the item says.

    It goes on to say the council applauds residents and organizations that "volunteer to impede, passively or actively, by nonviolent means, the work of any military recruiting office located in the City of Berkeley." See photos of protesters camped outside Marine office

    Outside the Shattuck Avenue recruiting station earlier this week, a handful of protesters with the anti-war group Code Pink camped out, strumming a guitar as they sang anti-war songs and held signs against the Iraq war.

    "Time to end the war, time to end the war, time to end the war right now," they sang to the beat of "I've Been Working on the Railroad." Watch protesters sing "I Ain't Afraid"

    One giant sign said, "No Military Predators in Our Town." Another message on a pink placard read, "Join the Marines. Travel to Exotic Lands. Meet Exciting and Unusual People -- And Kill Them."

    Zanne Joi peered out from under her straw hat. "This Marine recruiting station is trying to recruit our youth to go to Iraq to kill and be killed. And we are against that," said Joi, a member of Code Pink Women for Peace.

    "This is part of a multi-pronged effort to end this war."

    Protester Sharon Adams added: "This recruiting station recruits people to go fight and then once they fight and they serve their country, our country doesn't take care of them. That's a shame."

    But not everyone here supports the protesters.Watch young men confront protesters

    Forrest Smith, who described himself as a veteran of U.S. Special Forces, said his son recently returned from a tour in Iraq and his daughter served in Afghanistan.

    "My position on this is the Marines are the best thing we have," said Smith, decked out in Army fatigues.

    He blasted the City Council for its action. "It's clearly an abuse of power."

    A group of young students who strolled down the sidewalk shared that sentiment. They derided one of the protesters who argued the United States was involved in an illegal war in Iraq.

    "Where's the logic in that whatsoever?" one of the young men said. "That's our national security, and you're here protesting the Marines."

    Another said, "It makes me sick. It makes me sick."

    Gunnery Sgt. Pauline Franklin, a spokeswoman for the Marine Corps Recruiting Command, told CNN there is "no plan for that office to move."

    She said recruiters are there to "provide information to qualified men and women who are looking for opportunities that they may benefit from by serving in the military."

    "The Marine Corps is here to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, which does guarantee the freedom of speech," Franklin said. "In terms of the situation in Berkeley, the City Council and the protesters are exercising their right to do so."

    In Washington, a group of Republican lawmakers have introduced the Semper Fi Act of 2008 -- named after the Marine motto -- to rescind more than $2 million of funds for Berkeley and transfer it to the Marine Corps.

    "Like most Americans, I really get disturbed when taxpayer money goes to institutions which proceed to take votes, make policy or make statements that really denigrate the military," said Sen. David Vitter, R-Louisiana, a co-sponsor of the bill.

    He told CNN he believes the bill will pass. "I think it's going to have significant support."

    The bill's co-sponsor, Sen. Jim DeMint, R-South Carolina, said in a written statement, "Berkeley needs to learn that their actions have consequences."

    Berkeley's declaration, which was introduced by the city's Peace and Justice Commission, accuses the United States of having a history of "launching illegal, immoral and unprovoked wars of aggression and the Bush administration launched the most recent of those wars in Iraq and is threatening the possibility of war in Iran."

    It adds, "Military recruiters are salespeople known to lie to and seduce minors and young adults into contracting themselves into military service with false promises regarding jobs, job training, education and other benefits."

    Out on Shattuck Avenue, it appears the protesters have no plans to leave anytime soon. "We are the civilian population; we control the military," Adams said. "We the people have to take back our control of the military."

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.08.17 @ 02:16 PM
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    Berkley: Marines not welcome, but Pussies are.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  3. #3
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    Not that I'm big on the war, but I don't agree with THIS AT ALL.

    If there was some type of problem in Berkley and they needed a military presence, I bet this stance would change.

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    Atomic Punk smithjc's Avatar
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    08.04.17 @ 11:33 PM
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    That's what I was thinking. If - God forbid - the Big One hits and the gov needs to bring in the military to restore order, how much will these guys be protesting then?

    Idiots.
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  5. #5
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 09:41 AM
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    (just my opinion, don't kill me here)

    From what I read here, I don't think that these people are protesting the marines at all. What they are pissed off about is the armed forces being used in what they consider to be illegal or immoral actions.

    Since a marine, or any member of the armed forces, has no say in where or what they fight about, the recruiters are seen as inticing young men and women into something wrong, at least, wrong in what this administration is doing with them.

    And lets be honest here: the recruiters are salesmen and some of their tactics are perhaps not what they should be. Set up shop, yes, but actively pursuing those that are often on the unlucky end of society is probably not the best way to go about things....or the most moral.

    I have friends in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I disagree profoundly with both wars yet I have the utmost respect for the courage of my friends. Many people feel the same way and it is not a paradox.

    One friend in particular was in gulf war one. At the time he said he felt he was part of something "right". He has not been able to say the same about this latest jaunt.

    I don't think this is a protest about marines per se. More about how our governments are using some incredibly brave men and women to further their own ends.
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.08.17 @ 02:16 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme View Post
    (just my opinion, don't kill me here)

    I have friends in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I disagree profoundly with both wars......
    Get out the firing squad.

    You profoundly disagree with retaliating against the Taliban who supported Al Qaeda who killed 2,700 americans?


    Besides that little nugget, I have to disagree with your portrayal. Anyone that signs up for the military in the information age and falls for "recruiting tactics" is an idiot and would probably die if left to breathe on their own. There is so much information out there that to say you are duped into doing it is not only insulting to the military, but it's insulting to one's own intelligence.

    Besides, being against the war is a lot different than actively attempting to undermine the efforts of the troops. If no new recruits come in, the ones already there will stay longer, increasing their probability of being killed or injured.

    The lack of intelligent thought process in a city known for higher learning is not only ironic, but sad.

    If "Red Dawn" occured in Berkley, they would cave faster then the French. No Wolverines there.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 06:47 AM
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    Back in 1986 or so,the federal government wanted the drinking age to be 21 across all 50 states. Some states already had that age requirement but Ohio and some others fought against the Feds. The Feds then said, "fine you can keep it at 19 but you will not get any more funds for your highways". Ohio and the rest of the states buckled and its been 21 ever since.

    Same thing should apply here. The government should withhold any public funds for the city and possibly the state. Let the state legislatures force Berkley into allowing recruiters.

    I understand people being upset at the war(s) but this is not the way to do it. The Marines do a lot more than just going to fight wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are usually the first in for any conflict or crisis around the world.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    It's stupidity. They're just a bunch of attention seekers, trying to get it at the expense of young kids interested in serving their country.

    There are times when I wouldn't mind rounding such protesters up and shipping them to a country where they can live their convictions. They'd last a good five minutes.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    It's stupidity. They're just a bunch of attention seekers, trying to get it at the expense of young kids interested in serving their country.

    There are times when I wouldn't mind rounding such protesters up and shipping them to a country where they can live their convictions. They'd last a good five minutes.
    They're anti-establishment
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  10. #10
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    Fuckin' hippie wannabe's.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #11
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Get out the firing squad.

    You profoundly disagree with retaliating against the Taliban who supported Al Qaeda who killed 2,700 americans?


    Besides that little nugget, I have to disagree with your portrayal. Anyone that signs up for the military in the information age and falls for "recruiting tactics" is an idiot and would probably die if left to breathe on their own. There is so much information out there that to say you are duped into doing it is not only insulting to the military, but it's insulting to one's own intelligence.

    Besides, being against the war is a lot different than actively attempting to undermine the efforts of the troops. If no new recruits come in, the ones already there will stay longer, increasing their probability of being killed or injured.

    The lack of intelligent thought process in a city known for higher learning is not only ironic, but sad.

    If "Red Dawn" occured in Berkley, they would cave faster then the French. No Wolverines there.
    First of all, cheers for not being an asshole when our views are so obviously different. Too many people get too excited online so, seriously, thanks for giving your reasoned argument against mine.

    Regarding the taliban attacking america, I would have to say....no, they didn't. Avoiding going into conspiracy land, and following the official line, a group of people, who may or may not have been given refuge by the taliban government, carried out those attacks.

    Regardless, the Afghan war is a failure on so many levels and this country is on the fast track to becoming a failed state. Whether or not it was before is a matter of conjecture.

    I would say that yes it was a failed state anyway and we have done nothing to better that state of affairs.

    However, this could get out of hand talking about the wider issue of recent wars.

    I do not know how things work in the states, though I have a little knowledge about certain techniques employed by recruiters. I would say this though. In the main, and throughout history, unless a country is actually defending it's own borders (in which case I would pick up a gun in a heartbeat) a large percentage of our military comes from un underprivelaged section of society.

    Less worthy? Of course not and anyone who jumps on that comment really has no idea of my point here.

    Joining the forces is a career with a lot of stability and financial rewards otherwise unattainable to a lot of people who have been unable to get the bits of paper that says they are worthy of a better life. This of course is wrong and absolute shit but a fact of life in a world that rewards wealth over ability.

    So, the point, too many are desperate for a job, any job and it is not to say that people are stupid enough to fall for the sales pitch. It is that many have no choice when confronted with such a seemingly good offer.

    Shit, how many decent, intelligent people turn to crime when their options seem limited?

    I have no problem with recruitment but this kind of predatory tactic which seems so prevalent now is surely wrong and targetting the (perhaps) most vulnerable in society.

    For those that truly want to sign up.....good, I wish them all the best and regardless of whether I agree with the job they are asked to do, I am in awe of their ability to do that job.

    And this is my point. For those that would hate people protesting and say that sending them to war zones might just shake them up.....well missing the point is an understatement.

    ps. Not quite sure,,,, is red dawn that 80's propoganda movie about Russians invading the US? If so, it was an embarrasing piece of trash that, even when I was a teenager, made me cringe for it's gross stupidity....
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Research the 9/11 attacks a little more. When you see the pattern of support that the Taliban provided to Al-Qaeda after numerous sponsored attacks on several nations, you will understand why we bombed Afghanistan into a undiscernable pile of mountain goat feces. They all deserved to die, and we did the world a favor.

    You said yourself you aren't really familiar with their recruiting practices and were just going by generalities. That is exactly the same uneducated attitude this hippie-tree huggers are using. They have no idea what the reality is, they just know they don't like it. If it was that bad, you would have former Marines protesting with them. But you don't hear that do you? Of course not, because it's not true.

    They're higher-educated retards.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme View Post
    (just my opinion, don't kill me here)

    From what I read here, I don't think that these people are protesting the marines at all. What they are pissed off about is the armed forces being used in what they consider to be illegal or immoral actions.

    Since a marine, or any member of the armed forces, has no say in where or what they fight about, the recruiters are seen as inticing young men and women into something wrong, at least, wrong in what this administration is doing with them.

    And lets be honest here: the recruiters are salesmen and some of their tactics are perhaps not what they should be. Set up shop, yes, but actively pursuing those that are often on the unlucky end of society is probably not the best way to go about things....or the most moral.

    I have friends in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I disagree profoundly with both wars yet I have the utmost respect for the courage of my friends. Many people feel the same way and it is not a paradox.

    One friend in particular was in gulf war one. At the time he said he felt he was part of something "right". He has not been able to say the same about this latest jaunt.

    I don't think this is a protest about marines per se. More about how our governments are using some incredibly brave men and women to further their own ends.

    First off, Code Pink are a bunch of aging female hippies who are taking their hot-flashes and custy, dried out vaginas out on the rest of society. The are old and worthless and they need to feel relivant. They are the worst of the Left -Wing and their actions and the actions of other major leage baffoons are the main reason that the anti-war movement gets no news coverage and I would argue that they have helped prolong the war.


    And lets be honest here: the recruiters are salesmen and some of their tactics are perhaps not what they should be. Set up shop, yes, but actively pursuing those that are often on the unlucky end of society is probably not the best way to go about things....or the most moral.
    I have to call you on that one. You come off like a stuck up, elitist snob. The idea that Marine recruiters are preying upon the down and out of society is an amazing insult, I have to assume that it's due to you're unfamiliarity with American culture. The Marines don't take losers, you cannot be a highschool dropout or a criminal if you want to be a Marine. Once you sign up you must finish Marine Boot Camp and they don't make that easy and the Marines wash out many young people each week. Every kid who walks through a recruiter's door knows ( or has a very good idea) what they're getting into. The Marines offer young people a start on their future, just as the rest of the armed services do and just like the rest of the military the majority of the jobs Marines get are non-combat support jobs.

    The City of Berkeley, on the other hand, offers NOTHING to young people. The city gives a lot of money away to social programs but few actually benifit from them. The Marines give you a bed, food, clothes, medical care and a job.

    Another fact you are unaware of, Code Pink is almost all WHITE, the majority of the kids walking through that Marine Recruiter's door are BLACK and HISPANIC. My friend, take some time and google East Oakland and Richmond California and you will see that these places are MORE violent then Afghanistan or Iraq. What Code Stink is really doing is telling ethnic minorities that they cannot get out of the ghetto, that they must forego a future that includes money for college and technical military training. Code Pink offers NOTHING to Black and Hispanic youth.

    Not everyone who joins the Marines is down and out, in fact it's more often the opposite. The Marines get bright kids with equally bright civilian futures coming through their doors. Why? They wanna be Marines. Service to your country is actually a part of American culture anf the military is only one way to contribute.

    Further more, you will never see Code Pink blocking a crack-house, you will never see Code Pink protest or block the door where a Gangstah Rap concert is taking place. In short, you will never see Peace activists actually protest TRUE VIOLENCE.

    Code Pink has never marched in East Oakland, where hundreds of Black kids are gunned down every year. This should tell you everything you need to know about them - that they are full of shit.


    It was a stupid and thoughtless move by a city that straddles a dangerous earthquake fault. A fault that is due a 7.5+ quake in it's near future. These same pencil-eraser-dick-assholes will then be crying for the US government for help. I hope then that a big Assualt Ship pulls into the bay and the good people of Berkeley watch as US Marine CH-47s fly into Oakland and Richmond delivering supplies and they stand in line waiting for FEMA to open up.

    FUCK Berkeley.
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  14. #14
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    I know folks who work/live in Berkeley, including a professor at Cal who are good people but they do look at the world through extremely askewed lenses, even by Bay Area standards. I'm no advocate for the war in Iraq but I feel that targeting the military is childish, shortsighted, and wrong. To an earlier point, who's going to be the 1st to respond to the inevitable earthquake that will flatten Berkeley? (Memorial stadium is right on top of the Richmond fault line).

    Axxman makes a good point. It is actions such as this that make any protest movement look ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onefootoutthedoor View Post
    Fuckin' hippie wannabe's.
    Where's our resident Cyber-Hippie?

    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. -- Gen. George S. Patton

 

 

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