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  1. #1
    Eruption
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    10.03.13 @ 10:13 AM
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    Default Question for Weight Lifters

    I figure there's got to be a few of us here. Here's the situation:

    A friend and I started lifting in December. I used lift very hard as a teen and benched over 300 lbs weighing in at 155. My routine is based on the pyramid. I basically do a quick warm-up, an 8 rep set of 165-175, a 4 rep set of 185-195, a 1-2 rep set of 200+, then a burnout at 135 (which will progressively go up) and a set of "perfect push-ups." I am big on "shocking" the muscles regularly, and that can be anywhere in the workout. I really want to get the burnout up, as I used to burnout at around 185.

    Now, we have moved up very quickly in weight considering my friend has never done free weights before, and I hadn't done heavy lifting in years due to my health. So I think the fact that we are maxing out at probably 230+ after only a few months is pretty good.

    Well, some guys at work started telling him that my workout is crap, and specifically that the heavy set of 1-2 reps is meaningless. Considering my own success and that I had helped train HS football years ago, I'm very confident in my routine. I have also read online that by far the best way to increase your max is to regularly to a very heavy set.

    I just wanted to get some other opinions on this as maybe I'm looking at this wrong. My friend feels better than he ever has, so injury does not seem to be an issue. I'm just worried he may get confused and even lose faith in my program.

    Oh, and another funny thing, the most any of the other guys bench is 220, and they weigh over 20 lbs more than I do, have been in their routines for much longer, and take "supplements" (in quotes because I am not sure what exactly they do as a friend of ours is a professional bodybuilder).

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  2. #2
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 10:08 PM
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    I do no more than 5 sets on a bench. I do not count a warm up set. The least amount of reps I will do for a final set is 6. I start out with 15 reps and work my way down to 6, increasing the weight each set. How much weight I add on depends on how I am feeling - I am 39 not 24.
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  3. #3
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLO View Post
    I do no more than 5 sets on a bench. I do not count a warm up set. The least amount of reps I will do for a final set is 6. I start out with 15 reps and work my way down to 6, increasing the weight each set. How much weight I add on depends on how I am feeling - I am 39 not 24.
    That helps. My friend is in his 40's, while I am 29. Are you going for max weight, or just to stay in shape? I guess if they are saying that this type of workout isn't good for his age, that may make more sense. With my competitive nature (and my friend's), I just assumed we would go for max power, and he loves it so far.

    I think the thing that irked me was that they claimed the heavy set was "worthless," as if to totally dismiss me and my workout (which is how my friend put it). Your explanation would make more sense, but these are not "old men" (21, 22, 30). Thanks for the help!
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  4. #4
    5150 YO!Edward's Avatar
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    09.04.12 @ 11:15 AM
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    Sounds pretty good to me. If you want to build size your doing the right thing.

    My one comment would be just make sure your doing more than just benching (I am sure you are - just making the point). If you want the best physique its good to work the pectorals in other ways too...incline dumbell press, bent arm dumbell flyes - these are great, I am only guy in my gym that does them....maybe because they hurt when done properly - schwarzeneggers fave too and the crossover cable (great for 'rounding off').

    Too many guys rely on the bench press alone for great pecs, I see them all the time...plenty of size but no definition or shape.
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  5. #5
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 10:08 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCJanko View Post
    That helps. My friend is in his 40's, while I am 29. Are you going for max weight, or just to stay in shape? I guess if they are saying that this type of workout isn't good for his age, that may make more sense. With my competitive nature (and my friend's), I just assumed we would go for max power, and he loves it so far.

    I think the thing that irked me was that they claimed the heavy set was "worthless," as if to totally dismiss me and my workout (which is how my friend put it). Your explanation would make more sense, but these are not "old men" (21, 22, 30). Thanks for the help!

    The reason I don't go for a max lift is, its rarely a controlled lift. When guys try to do a max lift they are usually lifting the hips and throwing the shoulders around. I would rather lift 240 - 6 times controlled, than 300 once and flop about trying to do so.

    I also recommend mixing it up. I do my chest in a cycle of three. 1st day flat bench with DB flys, 2nd day incline bench with incline flys, 3rd day decline bench and DB flys with a low weight and 3 sets of 20 to 30 for burn. This cycle may take 5 to 8 days.
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  6. #6
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by YO!Edward View Post
    Sounds pretty good to me. If you want to build size your doing the right thing.

    My one comment would be just make sure your doing more than just benching (I am sure you are - just making the point). If you want the best physique its good to work the pectorals in other ways too...incline dumbell press, bent arm dumbell flyes - these are great, I am only guy in my gym that does them....maybe because they hurt when done properly - schwarzeneggers fave too and the crossover cable (great for 'rounding off').

    Too many guys rely on the bench press alone for great pecs, I see them all the time...plenty of size but no definition or shape.
    Yup, we're going to start working on incline bench. When we started we basically just hit the major muscles as we have time constraints (flat bench, curling, shoulder press, skull crushers, abs on upper-body days). Now we've worked in reverse curls.

    Actually, if anyone can let me know what you like for upper body in a less than 2 hour workout that would help us a lot. When I lifted in school I had 3+ hours to work out. Any suggestions about what excersizes you think are essential would help. I work out in my garage, have an olympic bench, slant board, and an EZ curl bar. I don't have any way to do lats or pull-ups, so I am looking into that. We do upper body 2 days a week. Thanks for the help!
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  7. #7
    5150 YO!Edward's Avatar
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    09.04.12 @ 11:15 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLO View Post
    The reason I don't go for a max lift is, its rarely a controlled lift. When guys try to do a max lift they are usually lifting the hips and throwing the shoulders around. I would rather lift 240 - 6 times controlled, than 300 once and flop about trying to do so.

    I also recommend mixing it up. I do my chest in a cycle of three. 1st day flat bench with DB flys, 2nd day incline bench with incline flys, 3rd day decline bench and DB flys with a low weight and 3 sets of 20 to 30 for burn. This cycle may take 5 to 8 days.
    Good point. A lift without control is a wasted lift.
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  8. #8
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLO View Post
    The reason I don't go for a max lift is, its rarely a controlled lift. When guys try to do a max lift they are usually lifting the hips and throwing the shoulders around. I would rather lift 240 - 6 times controlled, than 300 once and flop about trying to do so.

    I also recommend mixing it up. I do my chest in a cycle of three. 1st day flat bench with DB flys, 2nd day incline bench with incline flys, 3rd day decline bench and DB flys with a low weight and 3 sets of 20 to 30 for burn. This cycle may take 5 to 8 days.
    Gotcha. Good stuff. I wish we had more time to get something like that going, but it's tough to get together. With our max we are very disciplined. If we can't get it with good form, we stop.
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  9. #9
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 10:08 PM
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    You are spending 2 to 3 hours lifting??? Dude!!! ease it down notch, you are going to find yourself injured.

    I lift 3 to 4 times a week for about 40 minutes each session. I keep a small note book with me and preschedule each work out based on the results of my last workout. I work my chest and biceps one workout, I then do my back and triceps the next workout. I do my shoulders and legs on the third. Its a revolving door of workouts, each one is different to keep the muscle group guessing.

    You may want to send JMJ a PM he is a personal trainer. Unless you are wanting to be a Olympic weight lifter drop the 2 to 3 hour weight lifting sessions.
    ((Just My Two Cents))
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  10. #10
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 10:08 PM
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    Something to keep in mind. How I get my 40 minute workout in, I don't sit around a talk with my buddies or other dudes working out. I workout, I rest 30 to 45 seconds between sets.
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  11. #11
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLO View Post
    You are spending 2 to 3 hours lifting??? Dude!!! ease it down notch, you are going to find yourself injured.

    I lift 3 to 4 times a week for about 40 minutes each session. I keep a small note book with me and preschedule each work out based on the results of my last workout. I work my chest and biceps one workout, I then do my back and triceps the next workout. I do my shoulders and legs on the third. Its a revolving door of workouts, each one is different to keep the muscle group guessing.

    You may want to send JMJ a PM he is a personal trainer. Unless you are wanting to be a Olympic weight lifter drop the 2 to 3 hour weight lifting sessions.
    We lift at most 2 hours, usually 1.5-2. I used to work out 3 hours when I was playing football. We need to get in as much as possible as we can only do upper body twice a week. If we could split it up we would. I'll definitely check with JMJ.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Before I wrecked my back this was my routine:

    1 Heavy day a week upper body

    1 heavy day lower body

    Four days light wieghts and cardio.

    Heavy day circuit:

    3-sets/12 count dumbbell flies @ 75lbs ea.

    3 sets crossover machine @ 70 lbs ea

    3 sets lat pulldowns @ 200lbs +

    3 sets bench press @ 220 lbs. (one or two max lifts if spotter was around)

    If I wanted to bulk up there was a tip I got from Men's Fitness that did the charm. At the end of each station's set, I would immediately switch to half the weight I was lifting and then do as many reps as I could before my muscles cramped up. So if I was on the bench press, the idea was that I would do a full set at 220 and then take off half of the weight and then bang out as many as I could and then stop and put the full weight back on for the next set. It was a killer but effective workout and I filled out in about seven weeks. I called them "Monster Sets" and they were great later on whenever I was getting bored during a workout.

    You might try cutting back your heavy workouts to one or two days a week. Your muscles need time to heal and the more time they get the larger they get.

    But that's just me, every BODY is different and I was lifting for power, not sculpture.

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  13. #13
    Eruption
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    09.24.17 @ 11:47 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCJanko View Post
    I figure there's got to be a few of us here. Here's the situation:

    A friend and I started lifting in December. I used lift very hard as a teen and benched over 300 lbs weighing in at 155. My routine is based on the pyramid. I basically do a quick warm-up, an 8 rep set of 165-175, a 4 rep set of 185-195, a 1-2 rep set of 200+, then a burnout at 135 (which will progressively go up) and a set of "perfect push-ups." I am big on "shocking" the muscles regularly, and that can be anywhere in the workout. I really want to get the burnout up, as I used to burnout at around 185.

    Now, we have moved up very quickly in weight considering my friend has never done free weights before, and I hadn't done heavy lifting in years due to my health. So I think the fact that we are maxing out at probably 230+ after only a few months is pretty good.

    Well, some guys at work started telling him that my workout is crap, and specifically that the heavy set of 1-2 reps is meaningless. Considering my own success and that I had helped train HS football years ago, I'm very confident in my routine. I have also read online that by far the best way to increase your max is to regularly to a very heavy set.

    I just wanted to get some other opinions on this as maybe I'm looking at this wrong. My friend feels better than he ever has, so injury does not seem to be an issue. I'm just worried he may get confused and even lose faith in my program.

    Oh, and another funny thing, the most any of the other guys bench is 220, and they weigh over 20 lbs more than I do, have been in their routines for much longer, and take "supplements" (in quotes because I am not sure what exactly they do as a friend of ours is a professional bodybuilder).

    Fire away!
    Great post. I do Pyramid, Supersets(my personal favorite), Tri sets, circuit training, Hi reps, Low reps, and on occasion 1 rep max. I can honestly say there is no perfect workout, I strongly believe in constantly shocking the muscle which you mentioned in your post above. I wouldn't say your workout is crap however always pyramiding will lead to slow gains and extreme frustration. I strongly recomend adding supersets to your program, by doing this you will do more exercises in a shorter period of time and therefore benefit from a killer muscle pump. In your post you mentioned the bench press which of coarse is a staple in everyone's routine, but I actually got stronger on the bench by focusing more on wheighted dips, dumbell flys, and close grip bench press which actually works the triceps the best but shoots your strength through the roof. I will stop here because I can talk about this shit forever. I hope I helped out.

  14. #14
    Eruption
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    09.24.17 @ 11:47 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLO View Post
    Something to keep in mind. How I get my 40 minute workout in, I don't sit around a talk with my buddies or other dudes working out. I workout, I rest 30 to 45 seconds between sets.
    Shorter rest time is the key, leads to mind blowing pumps and burns more fat hence less time doing cardio.

  15. #15
    Little Dreamer
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    06.05.08 @ 09:26 PM
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    Always remember..no pain..no gain! Lift as much as you can 6-10 reps. If you can get past 10 reps, go heavier. Nutrition is also VERY important! Eat healthy carbs (greens, rice, fruit, cereal, pasta, whole grains) Protein of couse. 1 gram for every pound you weigh. Eat a lot of B vitamins, zinc, and magnesium=great for building muscle. Some supplements are great to take. Monohydrates are great for giving you that extra push. With good nutrition, some supplement help, and the extra effort in the gym, you will gain the wanted strength.

 

 

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