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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default President Bush introduced a $145 billion economic stimulus plan

    President Bush proposed $145 billion worth of tax relief as part of a plan to stimulate the U.S. economy amid fears that the subprime mortgage crisis and flagging consumer confidence could tip the country into recession.

    The president's speech in the Roosevelt Room of the White House was short on details, but he said the plan, which represents 1 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product, "would be sufficient to provide a boost to the economy."

    The president said the growth package "must be built on broad-based tax relief that will directly affect economic growth, and not the kind of spending projects that would have little immediate impact on our economy."

    Although short on details, he called for unspecified tax rebates for American taxpayers as well as tax breaks for small and medium-sized businesses. It "must be temporary and take effect right away, so we can get help to our economy when it needs it most," he said.

    Stocks fell after the White House plan was announced as investors appeared to doubt how much of an impact it would have on the economy.

    The stimulus package comes amid a spate of bad economic news in recent weeks, including a credit crunch prompted by the deepening subprime mortgage crisis, weak Christmas retail sales and falling consumer confidence. The shaky economy has sent jitters through worldwide financial markets.

    Bush also called for a permanent extension of his 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, many of which are due to expire in 2010.

    Although the president's plan was at odds with some Democrats who have called for spending programs to boost the economy, both sides share consensus that the economy is precarious.

    In his speech, Bush admitted "there is a risk of a downturn." Speaking after the president, Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson said he was confident of long-term economic strength, but that "the short-term risks are clearly to the downside, and the potential cost of not acting has become too high."

    He said 1 percent of GDP would equate to $140 billion to $150 billion, which is along the lines of what private economists say should be sufficient to help give the economy a short-term boost.

    "There's no silver bullet," Paulson said, "but, there's plenty of evidence that if you give people money quickly, they will spend it."

    Senior aides to House Democrats and Republicans said in addition to included tax rebates for individuals, the emerging measure would contain tax breaks for businesses investing in new equipment, increases in food stamps, and higher unemployment benefits. They spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity, since the talks are ongoing and lawmakers have promised not to reveal details.

    Earlier Friday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she wanted legislation enacted within a month and said the government must "spend the money, invest the resources, give the tax relief in a way that again injects demand into the economy, puts it in the hands of those who need it most and into the middle class ... so that we can create jobs."
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.Ē -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    This isn't going to be pretty.....


    Alright, let's just get this out of the way.

    Half on this side, half on this side. That's how these things usually work right? God forbid anyone agree on something.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  3. #3
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 02:06 PM
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    I really don't see how increasing unemployment benefits will do anything. It will just some of the people collecting it more of a reason to not look for a job. But whatever, you can't please everyone.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  4. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 01:46 PM
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    Default

    maybe if he would have kept the $1 trillion or so that the Iraq is costing him in his jeans this wouldn't have been needed.

    In all fairness to W, this market meltdown isn't on him. This is on the greedy money lenders at the banks (and I work for a bank). They knew this day was gonna come the way they were behaving. The practice of giving hundreds of thousand of dollars to anyone with a pulse was gonna bite them in the ass at some point. At it has big time. Not only the American banks but banks around the world who dealt in these garbage mortgages.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    It's not just the banks either, it's personal irresponsibility. The number of individuals with debt is staggering and disgusting. Now that it is catching up with them, they don't have the purchasing power they think they have. Those people spend less, business goes down, people lose jobs, and the spiral takes hold.

    Yet somehow, this is going to be blamed on Bush. People who have zero understanding of economics and tax policies are going to say he's giving more money to the rich, blah blah blah. It's enough to make me want to puke.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    It's not just the banks either, it's personal irresponsibility. The number of individuals with debt is staggering and disgusting. Now that it is catching up with them, they don't have the purchasing power they think they have. Those people spend less, business goes down, people lose jobs, and the spiral takes hold.

    Yet somehow, this is going to be blamed on Bush. People who have zero understanding of economics and tax policies are going to say he's giving more money to the rich, blah blah blah. It's enough to make me want to puke.
    you're not wrong. This has been a problem for quite a while and keeps getting worse. It began with people having multiple credit cards with max balances but it didn't threaten to really blow up until the banks got careless with their mortgage lending. The banks need to go back to the days of 25% down payments - but that won't happen.

    I really dislike President Bush but this market meltdown is not at all his fault. Unless he bought a house with no money down and defaulted on his mortgage he has 0 blame on this one.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    25% at today's inflated prices would be impossible. People that buy 200,000 houses do not have 50,000 sitting around. There would be a lot of people renting their entire lives, if not homeless.

    If housing prices would be where they should be (about half their value now), maybe that would be feasible, but there isn't a homeowner in the world that would like to see their investment cut in half.

    On the personal debt side, I saw this person on tv this morning who has credit card and school debts totaling almost $200,000 AND he wants to attend law school. Talk about being fucked for life.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  8. #8
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    25% at today's inflated prices would be impossible. People that buy 200,000 houses do not have 50,000 sitting around. There would be a lot of people renting their entire lives, if not homeless.

    If housing prices would be where they should be (about half their value now), maybe that would be feasible, but there isn't a homeowner in the world that would like to see their investment cut in half.

    On the personal debt side, I saw this person on tv this morning who has credit card and school debts totaling almost $200,000 AND he wants to attend law school. Talk about being fucked for life.
    it's not impossible at all. People will just need to learn to leave within their means. People wouldn't go homeless, people wouldn't rent their whole lives, people would just learn to buy what they can afford. Just like they did in the past. The reason why prices got inflated in the first place is because people were buying homes with money they didn't have. That's why you started seeing 40 year amortization and interest-only mortgages. It was to fool people into believing that they could buy a half million dollar home with no money down and making 50 grand a year. It's suicide and it needs to change.

    fyi - most of the people I know had 25% to put down. All of those people have no problem making mortgage payments today. I know a few people who didn't and all of them have financial issues now. It's not a coincidence.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    Were they paying for a $400,000 house when it should have only been 200,000? That was my point. Housing prices could not feasibly depreciate enough to make that a reality again. Since housing jumped so much, we're going to have to live with that reality.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  10. #10
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Were they paying for a $400,000 house when it should have only been 200,000? That was my point. Housing prices could not feasibly depreciate enough to make that a reality again. Since housing jumped so much, we're going to have to live with that reality.
    the housing market is already adjusting itself - see Florida and the other states that have seen nothing short of a housing meltdown. Buying a house with nothing down is basically financial suicide unless you are a young person making a huge income and merely haven't had the time to save a down payment (ie a young doctor/lawyer).

    Until very recently (the last 3-5 years) most people had a 25% down payment when buying homes.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Maybe it's different where you live, because around here, it's been 10% down for decades.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  12. #12
    Eruption
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    Bush is a joke. He has overspent more than any president in history - and all he wants to do is cut taxes. He sounds like a fucking broken record. Impeach the loser!

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanHalenRocks View Post
    Bush is a joke. He has overspent more than any president in history - and all he wants to do is cut taxes. He sounds like a fucking broken record. Impeach the loser!
    See post #5.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  14. #14
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Maybe it's different where you live, because around here, it's been 10% down for decades.
    in Canada the rule was 25% until the last decade or so. It became 5% not too long ago (less then a decade) and now some banks are basically waiving that.

    10% isn't nearly enough for most families to put down in my opinion - certainly not a sound financial decision. But at least it's something.

  15. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    See post #5.

 

 

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