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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default "Freedom Of Speech Is An American Concept" - Canadian Human Rights Investigator.

    What the fuck is going on in Canada?

    They have something called "Canadian Human Rights Council" that seems to be more of a leftist thought-police.

    At issue is a group of Muslims who are pissed off about something that was written in the Canuck magazine Maclean's. They are demanding equal time for a rebutal in the same magazine and the Canadian gub'ment just might FORCE the magazine to allow it.

    Read more here:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080106/...7YUiBByoJvaA8F

    Wait, it gets better...

    The CHRC's agents create accounts on various racist message boards such as "white nationalist" website Stormfront and then post hate speech themselves to entrap other anonymous posters and then charge them with a crime. The FBI can't do this even after the Patriot Act without a court order.

    http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/892/128/

    Look, everybody by now should know how I feel about racists (They require a beating) but there's a big difference between words and deeds. Assualt someone or vandalize property in a racist attack? Sure, knock them to the ground and kick them in the head until their brain launches down the street like a football. Posting racist crap on a racist website? That's okay by me, I don't go to those kinds of websites and I don't know anybody who does but shutting them down only proves their point.

    The idea that a government IS prosecuting people for something they wrote on an internet message board is evil. That they are doing it under the titile of "Human Rights" is Kafka-esque.
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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    ...The idea that a government IS prosecuting people for something they wrote on an internet message board is evil. That they are doing it under the titile of "Human Rights" is Kafka-esque.
    Would not a more apt (and accessible) reference be the "Thought Police" concept from Orwell's "1984"?

    Fuck. I just realized the irony of mentioning this at a site devoted to Van Halen as I typed it.

    Now I know why you went the Kafka route.

    Sorry, Axx.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    07.30.17 @ 08:59 PM
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    Well, as much as we'd like to think Canada is like us......they ain't.

    There are a lot more differences between us than people sometimes realize. They make some tasty damn bacon though.
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  4. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 10:16 AM
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    this was a pretty big story here in the news. Most people think the article was out of line but most would argue for Macleans right to publish it. Most did not consider it hate speech - some Muslim groups have disagreed.

    The concept of restricting "hate speech" in Canada typically wasn't aimed at something like the Macleans article. It was aimed at things like white supremecist groups who would publish materials calling for the murder of non-whites and then hiding behind freedom of speech. The hate speech law was well intentioned, stopping Macleans from publishing a somewhat controversial article was not it's intention.

    I think Macleans has actually reacted pretty well to the controversy - offering to print an article arguing the other side of the article. I have no issue with a member of government bringing this up to pressure Macleans. I have a problem with the Human Rights Commission wasting 1 second of time on this.


    you're right, we do make better bacon.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    07.30.17 @ 08:59 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post

    you're right, we do make better bacon.
    Take a bow for Rush, Rik Emmett, Shatner, and ketchup-flavored potato chips while you're at it.


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  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    Take a bow for Rush, Rik Emmett, Shatner, and ketchup-flavored potato chips while you're at it.


    you forgot about hockey, basketball and poutine.

    we're a little different then the states. Not better or worse just different. We give up a little on the rights end and arguably get back a little on the quality of life/safety side. Both pretty fantastic countries though. Both have their issues but most people in the world would give their right arm to move here.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    you forgot about hockey, basketball and poutine.
    Not a sports fan, but I'll try the poutine just for the sake of saying so.

    Fries and gravy? Fuck, why not?



    As for our right for saying whatever the fuck we want........

    Well, that better be some tasty-ass gravy!
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  8. #8
    Eruption Lightning Fingers's Avatar
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    03.01.12 @ 05:52 PM
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    That Human Rights investigator should read Plato or Socrates before saying freedom of speech is an American concept. As well, if the allegations are true, the investigator should read the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Whomever they arrested/fined/etc for hate speech should cite a few sections in our Charter. The judge would have no choice to toss the case out.

    The Canadian Human Rights Commission is designed to handle complaints and provide a resolution to problems, not go out to punish people. That should be it's last resort. Sure, the stiffest fine they can impose is a maximum $50,000 or arrest for obstruction, if a peace officer is present. IMO, they can't go to a website to lure people into posting hate. It infringes on paragraph 11(c)

    11. Any person charged with an offence has the right

    c) not to be compelled to be a witness in proceedings against that person in respect of the offence;

    It's like pleading the 5th and the person has the right to have evidence excluded

    24. (1) Anyone whose rights or freedoms, as guaranteed by this Charter, have been infringed or denied may apply to a court of competent jurisdiction to obtain such remedy as the court considers appropriate and just in the circumstances.

    (2) Where, in proceedings under subsection (1), a court concludes that evidence was obtained in a manner that infringed or denied any rights or freedoms guaranteed by this Charter, the evidence shall be excluded if it is established that, having regard to all the circumstances, the admission of it in the proceedings would bring the administration of justice into disrepute.

    Canada is not like the Soviet thought police or any other totalitarian regime. Our rights are guaranteed less legislative/jurisprudence exceptions. We may have specific legislation to restrict freedom, but we also have the courts to determine whose rights override other rights. Usually, these charter right cases end up in the Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) for a final determination. But get this, if the Government of Canada or any Provincial Government disagrees, there is a non-withstanding clause whereby legislation can be enacted to override the SCC decision. So far, no government has used this op-out clause.

    Overall, I think our charter of rights and freedoms have worked so far. IMO, the CHRC should act as a mediator, not as a punisher with regards to the CIC and MacLean's. I'm sure they'll come to a compromise regarding the rebuttal.
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  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 10:16 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum View Post
    Not a sports fan, but I'll try the poutine just for the sake of saying so.

    Fries and gravy? Fuck, why not?



    As for our right for saying whatever the fuck we want........

    Well, that better be some tasty-ass gravy!
    it's not just the gravy - it's the fucking cheese in there. The shit's amazing. If you're ever in either Montreal or Ottawa you got to get some. You'll forget all about complete free speech when you get some poutine in you.

    I remember talking to an American about this once, about the whole free speech thing once (I think I was in Vegas but maybe somewhere else - not important). The topic of Jerry Springer came up and we were talking about different racist groups and I'm like "how are these idiots not charged with something?". He says " I hate their opinions and think their idiots but would die to hold on to their right to be idiots". That floored me, why would anyone die for someone's right to be an idiot? Myself, I'd just prefer to throw all the idiots in jail. I get free speech, I get freedom of the press. I just can't imagine that your founding fathers had "Klan meets the Black Panthers" on Springer in mind when they wrote all that stuff. I just assume they'd just shoot all those stupid fucks. But that's just me. I still you got a pretty amazing country despite perhaps a higher per capita number of idiots then we do.

  10. #10
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Fingers View Post
    But get this, if the Government of Canada or any Provincial Government disagrees, there is a non-withstanding clause whereby legislation can be enacted to override the SCC decision. So far, no government has used this op-out clause.
    and I can't imagine the case where out government ever does - that would surely be political suicide.

  11. #11
    Hot For Teacher 8amtill606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    I remember talking to an American about this once, about the whole free speech thing once (I think I was in Vegas but maybe somewhere else - not important). The topic of Jerry Springer came up and we were talking about different racist groups and I'm like "how are these idiots not charged with something?". He says " I hate their opinions and think their idiots but would die to hold on to their right to be idiots". That floored me, why would anyone die for someone's right to be an idiot? Myself, I'd just prefer to throw all the idiots in jail. I get free speech, I get freedom of the press. I just can't imagine that your founding fathers had "Klan meets the Black Panthers" on Springer in mind when they wrote all that stuff. I just assume they'd just shoot all those stupid fucks. But that's just me. I still you got a pretty amazing country despite perhaps a higher per capita number of idiots then we do.
    Re-read your own post. Think about what you just said and then think about how an American should take it.

    You speak and spew just as much as anyone else in the world. I don't particularly like it, but some do. But, I still think you have a right to speak it...

    even if you speak it on a website in a country that you are not a citizen of and criticize just about everything we do as a nation.

    Bottom line - we sacrificed and died for ourselves building this nation of freedom that provided speech. We have sacrificed ourselves for the European nations to be free and speak what they wish. (Think Hitler). We are currently dying and fighting for a country in the middle east to have the same. (And yes, the people - the people like you and I, do want that freedom).

    And yes - we die for the idiots. This is why no one comes to your country (or provinces) for help when something terrible happens.

    If you have evaluated the United States and all that it has sacrficed for itself and the world from just gauging it against Jerry Springer, then you my northern friend, are one of the idiots that you criticize so quickly.

    And by the way - 'all that stuff' is our constitution...

    Respect it. It is why your back yard is not controlled by a dictatorship or an oil field.

    Know what I mean?

  12. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8amtill606 View Post
    Re-read your own post. Think about what you just said and then think about how an American should take it.

    You speak and spew just as much as anyone else in the world. I don't particularly like it, but some do. But, I still think you have a right to speak it...

    even if you speak it on a website in a country that you are not a citizen of and criticize just about everything we do as a nation.

    Bottom line - we sacrificed and died for ourselves building this nation of freedom that provided speech. We have sacrificed ourselves for the European nations to be free and speak what they wish. (Think Hitler). We are currently dying and fighting for a country in the middle east to have the same. (And yes, the people - the people like you and I, do want that freedom).

    And yes - we die for the idiots. This is why no one comes to your country (or provinces) for help when something terrible happens.

    If you have evaluated the United States and all that it has sacrficed for itself and the world from just gauging it against Jerry Springer, then you my northern friend, are one of the idiots that you criticize so quickly.

    And by the way - 'all that stuff' is our constitution...

    Respect it. It is why your back yard is not controlled by a dictatorship or an oil field.

    Know what I mean?

    wtf are you talking about? Why don't you go reread my post and let me know what garbage you specifically don't like. I disagree with the right of racist groups to publish material calling for the deaths of other people. Is this really that outrageous a postion? My god, dude. Not everything is meant as a attack on America - it was a point of comparison not attack. What do you think I meant when I said we are no better and no worse then America but different. How does anything take that as a shot?

    You make it sound like the Americans were the only country to fight in WW2. Give it a fucking rest. Go read a history book or something my god. Get a clue. And if you feel so fucking proud of your nations miltary (which you should) and feel the need to talk like you're one of them - how bout growing some balls and joining them. They could always use another soldier and we wouldn't have to put up with this crap you like to post.

    FYI - Canada was fighting Hitler for about a year and a half before America officially joined the party. America needed to be attacked before it felt the need to completely help European countries. So please don't ever try to make it sound like Canada is some coward country while yours is always ready to help with the fight. We've always helped our allies in times of need, open up a newspaper or a history book if you need a refresher. We didn't need to be attacked by the Taliban to join your brave troops in Afghanistan - our nation just did what we felt was right - just like in WW2.
    Last edited by It's Mike; 01.19.08 at 06:04 AM.

  13. #13
    Eruption
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    10.03.13 @ 10:13 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    wtf are you talking about? Why don't you go reread my post and let me know what garbage you specifically don't like. I disagree with the right of racist groups to publish material calling for the deaths of other people. Is this really that outrageous a postion? My god, dude. Not everything is meant as a attack on America - it was a point of comparison not attack. What do you think I meant when I said we are no better and no worse then America but different. How does anything take that as a shot?

    You make it sound like the Americans were the only country to fight in WW2. Give it a fucking rest. Go read a history book or something my god. Get a clue. And if you feel so fucking proud of your nations miltary (which you should) and feel the need to talk like you're one of them - how bout growing some balls and joining them. They could always use another soldier and we wouldn't have to put up with this crap you like to post.

    FYI - Canada was fighting Hitler for about a year and a half before America officially joined the party. America needed to be attacked before it felt the need to completely help European countries. So please don't ever try to make it sound like Canada is some coward country while yours is always ready to help with the fight. We've always helped our allies in times of need, open up a newspaper or a history book if you need a refresher. We didn't need to be attacked by the Taliban to join your brave troops in Afghanistan - our nation just did what we felt was right - just like in WW2.
    And don't forget thousands of Canadians who volunteered for Viet Nam.

    Back on subject, maybe some people in the US don't realize the democrats are trying to do the exact same thing here in trying to revive "the Fairness Doctrine." Not everyone likes free speech.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine
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  14. #14
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 09:38 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by it's me View Post
    you forgot about hockey, basketball and poutine.
    I thought Michael Nesmith invented basketball in Massachussetts?

    As far as Canada fighing in World War II, did they do that of their own volition, or were they required to help England as one of their colonies? Don't know how that works with British colonies, what kind of sway mother England has over them. We split that gig in '76!

  15. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    I thought Michael Nesmith invented basketball in Massachussetts?

    As far as Canada fighing in World War II, did they do that of their own volition, or were they required to help England as one of their colonies? Don't know how that works with British colonies, what kind of sway mother England has over them. We split that gig in '76!
    1st world war we were obliged, when England joined we were in automatically. For WW2 it was a decision we made in parliament (not that anyone thought we wouldn't join).

    you were close, James Naismith in Mass but he was Canadian

 

 

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