Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 53
  1. #1
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,634
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
    Likes
    566
    Liked 2,218 Times in 1,118 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default Eddie stole from Ace Frehley?

    While perusing over at stltoday.com in their forums, a topic was started on "Top 5 Rock Guitarists of All Time"--always a sure bet to bring out the retards.

    Anyway, when the third or fourth guy included Eddie on the list (a no brainer in most of our opinions, I know), some guy comes on there talking about how Ace Frehley tapped before Eddie (like 73,74) and used "pinched harmonics." Well, pinched harmonics stupidity aside, anyone else know more about this?

    I know Eddie didn't "invent" right handed hammer-ons (different than tapping), but he is certainly the pioneer in popular music. So what's the deal? Is Ace Frehley being robbed of his credit, or is this guy just a Kiss-ass?
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  2. #2
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.27.00
    Location
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Posts
    170
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    06.19.12 @ 08:25 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    While perusing over at stltoday.com in their forums, a topic was started on "Top 5 Rock Guitarists of All Time"--always a sure bet to bring out the retards.

    Anyway, when the third or fourth guy included Eddie on the list (a no brainer in most of our opinions, I know), some guy comes on there talking about how Ace Frehley tapped before Eddie (like 73,74) and used "pinched harmonics." Well, pinched harmonics stupidity aside, anyone else know more about this?

    I know Eddie didn't "invent" right handed hammer-ons (different than tapping), but he is certainly the pioneer in popular music. So what's the deal? Is Ace Frehley being robbed of his credit, or is this guy just a Kiss-ass?
    Just sounds like some of the "Kiss Army Retards".

    Ace Frehley and Eddie Van Halen are like oil and frozen yogurt!

    Saying Eddie sole from Ace is like ME saying that Jimmy Paige stole from me!
    "France has neither winter, nor summer, nor morals. France is miserable because it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in France." - Mark Twain

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.01.02
    Location
    A Confederacy of Dunces
    Posts
    19,370
    Last Online

    03.07.10 @ 06:18 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts

    The times I saw Ace performing with Kiss in the seventies, he'd use his pick to "finger" notes with his right hand occasionally while holding a note with his left. There was no skill involved, in fact his choice of notes was rather random. The "effect" rendered was more of an annoying plinking noise than any musical articulation.

    Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top used the trick as well, yet with considerably more taste.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
    George Bernard Shaw

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,634
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
    Likes
    566
    Liked 2,218 Times in 1,118 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    That's what I thought. I was always under the impression that guitarists used to hammer-on a single note, but they wouldn't actually bar a phrase and rapidly tap out notes like Eddie did.

    I should've figured the guy was an ignoramous when he said Eddie thought he invented pinched harmonics. What a douche.

    If you really want to be flabbergasted, you should check out the actual thread. There was one guy lobbying for Kirk Hammet *slaps forehead*

    Then you have people who would go with:
    Tom Morello
    Jimi Hendrix
    Buckethead
    Slash
    Angus Young

    Someone hangs out at Guitar Center too much
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    06.15.06
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,741
    Favorite VH Album

    VHIII/WACF/OU51BALUCK
    Last Online

    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    tom morello is a bad motherfucker....

  6. #6
    On Fire Blount5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.27.04
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    321
    Last Online

    07.27.11 @ 07:16 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I'd but Gene Simmons stole from Eddie and tried to relay the technique to Ace. That argument is made because Ace's solo on Kiss Alive 2 came out a couple of years before Eruption. But remember, Gene did the VH demo's, Ed turned his back to the crowd when tapping...

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.21.03
    Posts
    3,080
    Last Online

    07.01.10 @ 06:21 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I remember as a kid, before I bought VH1 and was a "Kiss-tard" myself, reading a review in one of the magazines (Creem or Circus I think) about how EVH was an Ace rip off (albeit more proficient than Ace). Of course, Kiss was at their height of popularity and VH was this new, unknown band from LA. I had that preconception right up until I listened to VH1 for the 1st time. Then I thought "what the hell are they talkin' aboot".

  8. #8
    Hot For Teacher Mark5150s's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.09.02
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    230
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Mean Street
    Last Online

    12.04.17 @ 07:26 PM
    Likes
    7
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Didn't Ed and Alex help Gene do the demo for "Christine Sixteen"? I remember reading that the guitar solo that Ace did was extremely similar, if not the same, as the young guitarist put on tape initially. I would love to hear the original demo, maybe the next Kiss compilation...

    BTW, my son, God bless him, recently had similar debate on his school bus with his misguided friend about VH being a Kiss rip-off band. My boy got to stay up a little later that night
    <Insert favorite VH song lyrics here>

  9. #9
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.02.99
    Age
    46
    Location
    Somewhere Near LA
    Posts
    68,691
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 05:49 PM
    Likes
    1,263
    Liked 11,546 Times in 4,919 Posts

    Default

    Lots of people tapped before Eddie, and before Ace Frehley (if he was even doing it, which I really question). Ace Frehley is an awful player, I can't believe that tool would attempt to lay claim to anything except putting on makeup. He's a mediocre lead guitarist, who copped Ed's demo licks for "Christine Sixteen" almost note for note.
    Webmaster
    VHLinks.com - Your Van Halen Internet Resource Guide
    http://www.vhlinks.com

    JamToThis.com
    Audio/Video Trading Community
    Tons of Van Halen!

  10. #10
    On Fire Rebel67's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.31.02
    Age
    49
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    354
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen 1 Thru 1984
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    10.17.09 @ 10:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Man, there's a lotta' ACE bashing going on here. Sure, He's not in the same league as Ed, but c'mon guys, even Dimebag gave props to the man. He played very memorable leads and was the first to influence me to wanna' play guitar with his solo on ALIVE II. Ed sealed the deal with Eruption.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.10.05
    Age
    47
    Location
    Kate Upton's Closet
    Posts
    37,868
    Favorite VH Album

    Alex, Dave, Ed and Mike
    Favorite VH Song

    The songs with Ed on them
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 05:27 PM
    Likes
    3,500
    Liked 18,114 Times in 8,948 Posts

    Default

    In my humble opinion it was the popularity of Kiss that made guys want to pick up the guitar and play, not Ace's playing on its own merits. There is nothing special about his playing. I am sure that he is capable, but saying that Ed copied him is a total falsehood, the two are light years apart in skill level.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

    DONATE TO THE LINKS YA CHEAP BASTARDS!!!!

  12. #12
    Sinner's Swing! Bullwinkle's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.08.07
    Location
    698 Sycamore Road, San Pueblo, CA
    Posts
    2,789
    Favorite VH Album

    Sound Magazine
    Favorite VH Song

    I Think I Love You
    Last Online

    06.07.15 @ 10:30 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post

    Default

    You always have to give a certain amount of credit for attitude and stage presence, which is why I always mention Ace and Angus Young when I'm talking about my favorite rock guitarists.

    The biggest problem with Ace is that a guy named Brian Kulick played many of the famous Ace guitar parts for the records and then taught them to Ace so he could play them live. (Brian also did the fixes for the live albums.) So when people are complimenting Ace, they're actually complimenting Brian.
    Ace was too busy doing concerts, interviews, photo shoots, booze, and pills. (Not necessarily in that order.)







    Don't read this.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.01.02
    Location
    A Confederacy of Dunces
    Posts
    19,370
    Last Online

    03.07.10 @ 06:18 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullwinkle View Post
    The biggest problem with Ace is that a guy named Brian Kulick played many of the famous Ace guitar parts for the records and then taught them to Ace so he could play them live. (Brian also did the fixes for the live albums.) So when people are complimenting Ace, they're actually complimenting Brian.
    Ace was too busy doing concerts, interviews, photo shoots, booze, and pills. (Not necessarily in that order.)
    It broke my heart to discover that one of my favorite Ace solos (on the John Bonham drum sounding "Larger Than Life") was in reality played by Rick Derringer.

    I will be further appalled if I ever learn that he did not play the extremely cool short solo on "I Was Made For Lovin' You".
    Last edited by chefcraig; 01.11.08 at 05:28 AM.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
    George Bernard Shaw

  14. #14
    5150
    Join Date
    12.13.02
    Age
    45
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    575
    Favorite VH Album

    1984
    Last Online

    12.05.17 @ 03:19 AM
    Likes
    4
    Liked 49 Times in 30 Posts

    Default

    I've always had a soft spot for Ace Frehley. I love that lazy, sloppy phrasing. I had heard about Kulick playing his parts, but I'd thought that was towards the end of Ace's tenure when the booze and drugs were taking their toll. The Dynasty album in particular doesn't sound like him, and it's Vinnie Vincent on Creatures of the night.

    There are left hand pull offs on Alive II, and plenty of other guitarists tapped in form or another (Billy Gibbons, Steve Hackett, even Brian May on News of the World) before Van Halen, but Eddie's innovation was how it was implemented and integrated into his style, rather than being a gimmick.
    HERE AND GONE by Haylen Beck (Stuart Neville writing as...) - "It doesn't get better than this." - Lee Child, "Highly recommended." - Harlan Coben, "Cancel all your plans and settle in for the ride." - Ruth Ware, "This is a book that lives up to the buzz." - Alafair Burke

    Summer 2017 UK & North America

  15. #15
    Sinner's Swing! Bullwinkle's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.08.07
    Location
    698 Sycamore Road, San Pueblo, CA
    Posts
    2,789
    Favorite VH Album

    Sound Magazine
    Favorite VH Song

    I Think I Love You
    Last Online

    06.07.15 @ 10:30 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    I will be further appalled if I ever learn that he did not play the extremely cool short solo on "I Was Made For Lovin' You".
    That's the first time I've seen the words "extremely cool" in the same sentence with "I Was Made For Loving You", but anyway...

    Anything from that period, assume that Ace didn't play on it. Peter, too.







    Don't read this.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. SOMEONE STOLE MY FUCKIN CAR
    By Kevy5150 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 11.03.05, 06:54 AM
  2. Ace Frehley?
    By bcgvh in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01.11.03, 09:26 PM
  3. Somebody stole my girlfriend's car last night!
    By hain23x in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 01.31.02, 07:21 AM
  4. Roy Orbison Stole my Napster
    By Glenn in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Music Only)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03.14.01, 08:15 AM
  5. Who does Ace Frehley think he is???
    By mikeKramer in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 07.26.00, 02:33 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •