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Thread: Ron Paul

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    Eruption Kevy5150's Avatar
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    Ron Paul

    The more I listen to this man, the more I believe him. Has anyone else here been checking out what Ron Paul has to say?
    Respects.

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    The man says everything I've been thinking about what our government has become. He'll get my vote.
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    I voted for Ron Paul in 1988 (my first election) when he was a Libertarian. If he had a snowballs chance in hell, I might get excited about his campaign. It's not 1988 anymore and I've become way to jaded about Washington, politics and the direction of the country.

    Are people really ready to get back to the values this country was founded upon? Freedom, independence, self reliance??? I think not.
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    I checked out his website. For being such a supposed Constitutionalist, he seems pretty willing to chuck the parts of the document that he doesn't like. That bothers me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    I checked out his website. For being such a supposed Constitutionalist, he seems pretty willing to chuck the parts of the document that he doesn't like. That bothers me.
    Just which part is he willing to chuck? If adhering to U.S. Constitution is your concern, I don't know how you could vote for anyone else. I've not kept up with Dr. Paul very closely, but I would assume he would be far and away closer to a "Constitutionalist" than any of the other candidates.

    Even though they're sworn to uphold it, very few even come close. The 9th and 10th amendments are ignored on almost a daily basis. Funny how James Madison debated with Jefferson in personal correspondance on the 9th and 10th amendments. He felt that they went without saying. I don't think he ever envisioned the power grubbers that run our government today (from both parties).
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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Just which part? Have you read Ron Paul's website? He'd chuck the 14th in a heartbeat.

    Another thing that bothers me about Ron Paul is that his most ardent supporters don't seem to understand his positions. What does that say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    Just which part? Have you read Ron Paul's website? He'd chuck the 14th in a heartbeat.

    Another thing that bothers me about Ron Paul is that his most ardent supporters don't seem to understand his positions. What does that say?
    You'll have to pardon my ignorance on Dr. Paul's current positions. Please remember that the 14th amendment and immigration wasn't near the issue in 1988 when I first was introduced to Dr. Paul and Libertarianisim. I would however probably be willing to chuck the 14th myself to get back the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 9th and 10th. Or even a 20th for Senators, Representatives and Judges.

    I'll read his website and educate myself, even though I blame politicans for most of the immigration issues we have in this country. They're the reason that this has even become an issue.

    While I don't consider myslef a "Ron Paul" supporter, I can assure you that I understand his most fundamental Libertarian positions (limited govt. non-intervention, free trade) and support those.

    As I said, I'm way to jaded about this country's political process and candidates to get excited about any candidate.
    Last edited by VAREB; 12.26.07 at 05:55 AM.
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    "He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance." - The Declaration of Independence

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    He says some interesting things, but he's something of a snowball (doesn't have a chance in hell).

    I had a healthy voting record in Cali., but I was planning on sitting this one out based on the likely candidates, so whether I'm there or not will be of little
    consequence. If there's a 3rd party candidate - even a Ron Paul - I might absentee one in just on principle. But that was another thread.

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    I refuse to vote for any other candidate, they will say anything and lie to get their votes, Ron Paul speaks from the heart.

    Ron Paul actually seems to understand all the issues and solutions, as any other candidates lack the flow of information that Ron Paul provides. Look at his political record compared to the other candidates. I would be more comfortable voting for a Constitutionalist than another four years of neo-cons. He has record setting campaign donations and has more public support than anyone, despite the lies of the media. 2008 is going to be an interesting year...
    Respects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevy5150 View Post
    The more I listen to this man, the more I believe him. Has anyone else here been checking out what Ron Paul has to say?

    I saw him on Meet the Press last week.....all that I can say is a chill ran down my spine when I realised that I was agreeing with this election's crack-pot.....very Ross Perot like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    Just which part? Have you read Ron Paul's website? He'd chuck the 14th in a heartbeat.

    Another thing that bothers me about Ron Paul is that his most ardent supporters don't seem to understand his positions. What does that say?
    OK. I read the website. I assume you mean this part:
    End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.

    This would hardly chuck the 14th amendment, which is a 4 section amendment (the other three don't pertain to this). It was also written in 1868, and was designed to prevent revoking of the citizenship of former slaves. Hardly applicable to todays situation. However it would take a constitutional amendment to make this part of his platform law. Or he could just ignore it like the parts of the constitution our current government officals don't like.

    They fact that we're even debating the rights of people who aren't citizens of this country goes to show how much the politicans have fucked things up. If you're illegal, you have a right to get your ass and those of your family (born here or not) back across the border before it gets shot. That's it. I have no problems with immigrants; I believe if I were Mexican I would want to live here also, but it needs to be done properly and documented.
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    if he wants to do away with the idea that being born in the united states makes you a citizen, what pray tell does he suggest will make someone a citizen?

    That's very very disturbing...sorry but if you're born here, you're a United States citizen. Is he suggesting in order to be a citizen, your family has to have been here for a certain amount of time? Or have a certain number of generations all born here? Will we have to take tests periodically to maintain our citizenship?

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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    if he wants to do away with the idea that being born in the united states makes you a citizen, what pray tell does he suggest will make someone a citizen?

    That's very very disturbing...sorry but if you're born here, you're a United States citizen. Is he suggesting in order to be a citizen, your family has to have been here for a certain amount of time? Or have a certain number of generations all born here? Will we have to take tests periodically to maintain our citizenship?
    He's not suggesting that children born here to parents who are citizens suddenly have their citizenship revoked. As it stands now if you're illegal and your spouse is illegal, you can have a child in this country and the child becomes a citizen (see amendment 14 section one; US Constitution). This then makes it difficult to deport the parents of a US citizen. This is a fact apparently well known among the illegals. Funny how they know our constitution better than us. They must have good US Government classes in Mexico.

    See it's not so scary if you think about it. It's just something that people in 1868 didn't anticipate when writing the 14th amendment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VH_VAREB View Post
    He's not suggesting that children born here to parents who are citizens suddenly have their citizenship revoked. As it stands now if you're illegal and your spouse is illegal, you can have a child in this country and the child becomes a citizen (see amendment 14 section one; US Constitution). This then makes it difficult to deport the parents of a US citizen. This is a fact apparently well known among the illegals. Funny how they know our constitution better than us. They must have good US Government classes in Mexico.

    See it's not so scary if you think about it. It's just something that people in 1868 didn't anticipate when writing the 14th amendment.
    i understand why he wants to do it what I have a problem with is if we do away with birth as a means of establishing citizenship, does it mean that the parents must be citizens in order for their child to be a citizen? What about children born to people who are here on a work/school visa? Where are the lines drawn?

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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    i understand why he wants to do it what I have a problem with is if we do away with birth as a means of establishing citizenship, does it mean that the parents must be citizens in order for their child to be a citizen? What about children born to people who are here on a work/school visa? Where are the lines drawn?
    I would answer yes to your first question and no to the second. I don't know Dr. Paul's opinions but mine would be this:
    Parent 1 (citizen) Parent 2 (citizen) = Child citizen
    Parent 1 (citizen) Parent 2 (foreign) = Apply for child in country of choice
    Parent 1 (foreign) Parent 2 (foreign) = Child foreign
    Definitely not doing away with birth to establish citizenship.
    "Your right little girl. If women ruled the world there wouldn't be any more war; all the countries would just nag each other to death"
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    Captain Augustus McCrae in "Lonesome Dove"

    "He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance." - The Declaration of Independence

 

 

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