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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default RIAA Argues That MP3s From CDs Are Unauthorized

    "In an Arizona case against a defendant who has no legal representation, Atlantic v. Howell, the RIAA is now arguing — contrary to its lawyers' statements to the United States Supreme Court in 2005 MGM v. Grokster — that the defendant's ripping of personal MP3 copies onto his computer is a copyright infringement. At page 15 of its brief (PDF) it states the following: 'It is undisputed that Defendant possessed unauthorized copies... Virtually all of the sound recordings... are in the ".mp3" format for his and his wife's use... Once Defendant converted Plaintiffs' recordings into the compressed .mp3 format and they are in his shared folder, they are no longer the authorized copies...'"
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    "In an Arizona case against a defendant who has no legal representation, Atlantic v. Howell, the RIAA is now arguing — contrary to its lawyers' statements to the United States Supreme Court in 2005 MGM v. Grokster — that the defendant's ripping of personal MP3 copies onto his computer is a copyright infringement. At page 15 of its brief (PDF) it states the following: 'It is undisputed that Defendant possessed unauthorized copies... Virtually all of the sound recordings... are in the ".mp3" format for his and his wife's use... Once Defendant converted Plaintiffs' recordings into the compressed .mp3 format and they are in his shared folder, they are no longer the authorized copies...'"
    The acts of an organization that is trying to stem the onset of a tsunami that has already hit them. By that reasoning, all the tape cassette recordings I made all those years ago off of LP's that I bought so I can listen to them in my Ford Pinto are illegal. I'd better dig those out of my basement and burn them.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Ummm...isn't this a retread of the whole "cassette tape/home recording" argument, that was replaced by the "VHS videotape/home recording" argument a few years later?

    I wonder if the guys that invented carbon paper or mimeograph machines went through the same horseshit?
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by looper_guy View Post
    The acts of an organization that is trying to stem the onset of a tsunami that has already hit them. By that reasoning, all the tape cassette recordings I made all those years ago off of LP's that I bought so I can listen to them in my Ford Pinto are illegal. I'd better dig those out of my basement and burn them.

    yeah they were...by the letter of the law. We all did it, especially back then with all our mix tapes and shit...and we do it now by ripping cds into mp3 so we can have them at easier access and be able to email them and share them etc etc with greater ease...its a conundrum because we've all grown up making unauthorized copies for copyrighted materials and thought nothing of it and now that it's being enforced there is a backlash...mostly because it's giant distribution companies pissed about their shrinking profits and not about starving artists not being rewarded/compensated for the artwork they create...

  5. #5
    Eruption Kevy5150's Avatar
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    07.12.08 @ 04:41 PM
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    They can just shut their trap already.
    Respects.

  6. #6
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    08.10.17 @ 06:04 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    yeah they were...by the letter of the law. We all did it, especially back then with all our mix tapes and shit...and we do it now by ripping cds into mp3 so we can have them at easier access and be able to email them and share them etc etc with greater ease...its a conundrum because we've all grown up making unauthorized copies for copyrighted materials and thought nothing of it and now that it's being enforced there is a backlash...mostly because it's giant distribution companies pissed about their shrinking profits and not about starving artists not being rewarded/compensated for the artwork they create...
    Yeah, I think Gene Simmons said recently something to the effect of "Fuck the RIAA, they should have fought this battle years ago and started suing the pants off the parents of these kids way back when the advent of the mp3 and file-sharing came about. It's way too late to try to stop it now."
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    Two of them will be like: "Leave them alone, let's go see the game." Another one is lost: "Where'd you guys go?" The dog has to deal with all of that. You work them off a whistle. It's the original video game.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    Ummm...isn't this a retread of the whole "cassette tape/home recording" argument, that was replaced by the "VHS videotape/home recording" argument a few years later?

    I wonder if the guys that invented carbon paper or mimeograph machines went through the same horseshit?
    If copyright laws were as complicated and skewed towards the interests of those who control them (as opposed to the interest of the authors) a few hundred years ago, Gutenberg would have thought twice before inventing the printing press.

    That ole' money grubber Gene Simmons has a point: The time for this battle has passed. I'm sure the RIAA will get a few more victories in court but there is not way legal precedents will turn back the tide of ripping CD's. The recording industry has to do what all industries must do: adapt.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    Gene Simmons:
    The record industry is in such a mess. I called for what it was when college kids first started download music for free -- that they were crooks. I told every record label I spoke with that they just lit the fuse to their own bomb that was going to explode from under them and put them on the street.

    There is nothing in me that wants to go in there and do new music. How are you going to deliver it? How are you going to get paid for it if people can just get it for free? I will be putting out a Gene Simmons box set called "Monster" -- a collection of 150 unreleased songs. KISS will have another box set of unreleased music in the next year.

    The record industry doesn't have a f---ing clue how to make money. It's only their fault for letting foxes get into the henhouse and then wondering why there's no eggs or chickens. Every little college kid, every freshly-scrubbed little kid's face should have been sued off the face of the earth. They should have taken their houses and cars and nipped it right there in the beginning. Those kids are putting 100,000 to a million people out of work. How can you pick on them? They've got freckles. That's a crook. He may as well be wearing a bandit's mask.

    Doesn't affect me. But imagine being a new band with dreams of getting on stage and putting out your own record. Forget it.
    Interviewer: BUT SOME ARTISTS LIKE RADIOHEAD AND TRENT REZNOR ARE TRYING TO FIND A NEW BUSINESS MODEL.

    Gene Simmons:
    That doesn't count. You can't pick on one person as an exception. And that's not a business model that works. I open a store and say "Come on in and pay whatever you want." Are you on f---ing crack? Do you really believe that's a business model that works?
    Interviewer: SO WHAT IF MUSIC JUST BECOMES FREE AND ARTISTS MAKE THEIR LIVING OFF OF TOURING AND MERCHANDISE?

    Gene Simmons:
    Well therein lies the most stupid mistake anybody can make. The most important part is the music. Without that, why would you care? Even the idea that you're considering giving the music away for free makes it easier to give it away for free. The only reason why gold is expensive is because we all agree that it is. There's no real use for it, except we all agree and abide by the idea that gold costs a certain amount per ounce. As soon as you give people the choice to deviate from it, you have chaos and anarchy. And that's what going on.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  9. #9
    Romeo Delight
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    Copying from CD or Vinyl to tape was never illegal, as long as you didn't give the tape to anyone else. You were allowed to copy it to tape for your own use or for a "backup", but if you copied the tape and gave it to someone else then it's illegal. Same goes with the MP3's. The Document isn't saying that the guy having MP3's was illegal, it's saying that the fact that he put them in his sharing folder, therefore making them available to other people, made them illegal. Am I the only one that understands that!? Make's perfect sense to me...

    Dave

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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.thomas View Post
    Am I the only one that understands that!? Make's perfect sense to me...
    You're reading it the right way. People don't always like to read to the end of a sentence.

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    But shouldn't the standard of proof be that the file was actually downloaded by a 3rd party? I would think merely having the files in a certain location, ON YOUR PERSONAL HOME COMPUTER couldnt be an illegal act.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 09:00 AM
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    There is only one reason to move your music into a shared folder on your computer, so that people can copy and download it onto their own computers. The don't care if you make copies of what you bought for your own personal use, it is just when you give you copy to someone who has not purchased it that they care.
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  13. #13
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.thomas View Post
    Copying from CD or Vinyl to tape was never illegal, as long as you didn't give the tape to anyone else. You were allowed to copy it to tape for your own use or for a "backup", but if you copied the tape and gave it to someone else then it's illegal. Same goes with the MP3's. The Document isn't saying that the guy having MP3's was illegal, it's saying that the fact that he put them in his sharing folder, therefore making them available to other people, made them illegal. Am I the only one that understands that!? Make's perfect sense to me...

    Dave
    Makes sense to me.....except that now there are millions of shared folders out there with millions of files in them and it has been very difficult until recent years to legally prove that access to those shared folders has been unlawful because of the files logistics, servers that were overseas, etc. So now, the RIAA will make examples of a number of folks via the courts but that won't change the lost revenue or act as an effective deterent because there isn't enough lawyers or courts to go after everyone who has illegally shared music. To the point referenced earlier, the time to have made someone an example was pre-Napster when only a savy few had broadband access and knew how to rip CD's.

    To the analogy of LP/Cassettes, there were attempts to challenge the legality of taping, then efforts to try to regulate it that failed.

    I'm not defending the practice of file sharing, just the fact that the RIAA are impuning a technology that they should have, at least, been simultaneously embracing while enforcing copyright laws. Now they are playing catch-up in both areas because their bread/butter is drying up. I also take issue with the fact that it wasn't out of their care for the artist that prompted them to action but rather the fact that their control of the copyrights was in jeopardy.
    Last edited by looper_guy; 12.11.07 at 06:55 PM.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    I think behaviors have changed. Everyone I know used to use Napster. Now, not so many that I know of do that kind of thing. Partly because of the lawsuits and partly because of how much better the experience is with things like the iTunes Music Store.

    Personally, I think anyone who has a shared folder full of music has to be an idiot. Who wants to take the chance of being financially ruined, just to make music that you already have available to people you don't know? I can't see any upside in it. Can someone explain it to me, if there is one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by looper_guy View Post
    I'm not defending the practice of file sharing, just the fact that the RIAA are impuning a technology that they should have, at least, been simultaneously embracing while enforcing copyright laws. Now they are playing catch-up in both areas because their bread/butter is drying up. I also take issue with the fact that it wasn't out of their care for the artist that prompted them to action but rather the fact that their control of the copyrights was in jeopardy.
    You say it well, looper.

 

 

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