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  1. #1
    Romeo Delight omarbratley's Avatar
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    Default Nuclear-armed Iran risks 'World War III,' Bush says

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/17/asia/prexy.php


    By Brian Knowlton
    Wednesday, October 17, 2007

    WASHINGTON: President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he thought Russia still wanted to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. But stepping up his own rhetoric, the president warned that for Tehran to possess such a weapon raised the risk of a "World War III."

    That comment, made during a 45-minute news conference, came as reporters probed for the president's reaction to a warning Tuesday by President Vladimir Putin of Russia against any military strikes on Iran to halt the nuclear work it has continued in defiance of much of the world. Iran says the program is purely peaceful.

    "If Iran had a nuclear weapon, it'd be a dangerous threat to world peace," Bush said. "So I told people that if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested" in ensuring Iran not gain the capacity to develop such weapons.

    "I take the threat of Iran with a nuclear weapon very seriously," he said.

    The United States has said it is pursuing a diplomatic approach to Iran, including the threat of a new round of United Nations sanctions, but has refused to rule out military action to halt Iran's nuclear program, which it believes might be used covertly to develop nuclear weapons.

    But in Tehran on Tuesday, Putin said, "Not only should we reject the use of force, but also the mention of force as a possibility."

    Asked Wednesday about photos that showed a seemingly cordial meeting in Tehran between Putin and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Bush said he was loath to read too much into photographs and wanted to hear Putin's own "readout" of the meeting.

    Proposed new UN sanctions against Iran, pressed in particular by the United States and France, have so far been blocked by Russia, which holds a veto on the Security Council and wants further dialogue with Tehran.

    But Putin has gone further, questioning what evidence the Americans and French have for asserting that Iran intends to make nuclear weapons.

    When President Nicolas Sarkozy of France visited Putin in Moscow early this month, Putin said: "We don't have information showing that Iran is striving to produce nuclear weapons. That's why we're proceeding on the basis that Iran does not have such plans."

    Sarkozy said the two might "not have quite the same analysis of the situation."

    France has argued that aggressive moves toward multilateral sanctions against Iran are the best way to avoid military against Iran.

    And while Putin says that Russia is taking Iran's descriptions of its program at face value, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently asserted that Iran was lying to UN inspectors.

    Bush, seeking to explain his relationship with a man whom he once said he viewed as a trusted ally against terrorism - but who has since led his country in steadily more authoritarian directions - said that he and Putin "don't agree on a lot of issues."

    Still, he said, it was vital to maintain an open and candid relationship that allowed each man to speak his mind.

    The president nonetheless acknowledged American frustrations at trying to influence Russia.

    "In terms of whether or not it's possible to reprogram the kind of basic Russian DNA, which is a centralized authority," Bush said, "that's hard to do."

    The best he could do, the president said, was to try to make it clear that it is in Moscow's interests to have good relations with the West, and an open and democratic government.
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  2. #2
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    Here we go...

  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing! csm5150's Avatar
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    How long until Dumbya ties them into 9/11/Osama/and or any other leading terrorist mumbo jumbo?
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    Super Duper Frontman track 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csm5150 View Post
    How long until Dumbya ties them into 9/11/Osama/and or any other leading terrorist mumbo jumbo?


    And you wouldn't consider Iran having nuclear weapons much of a threat to our families and the United States? Much less various other contries in this world. Out.
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  5. #5
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:36 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by track 5 View Post
    And you wouldn't consider Iran having nuclear weapons much of a threat to our families and the United States? Much less various other contries in this world. Out.
    I agree T-5. Iran is the last country on this planet that should have nukes.
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    I'm actually somewhat comfortable with Iran having the bomb. Nation states seem to develop maturity and caution once they develop it.

    At this point, it seems to be an inevitability, eh? Can't stop it. Could delay it, but at what cost? A war we're ill-prepared to fight, and a peace we couldn't hope to win.

    It's the saber-rattling that really bothers me. That shit can get out of control fast, and I don't know that anyone involved has the skill, humility, or wisdom to apply the brakes.

    I really do think that as Americans, it's time we start adjusting our expectations. Along with that, we need to begin freeing ourselves from the 20th century. The dependencies that served us so well for the last half-century are going to come back to haunt us with a vengeance. It's time to let go of what was once comfortable and forge ahead.

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing! csm5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by track 5 View Post
    And you wouldn't consider Iran having nuclear weapons much of a threat to our families and the United States? Much less various other contries in this world. Out.

    Actually, I'm referring to Bush's tactic of referring to 9/11 and/or linking someone to Osama when he wants to justify something (see our present war) when there is no basis in the truth for that. So Iran having nukes poses a threat, yet North Korea who has nukes and a fanatic in charge poses no threat? That doesn't constitue WWIII, but yet the possibility of Iran having nukes makes it a threat. Yeah, okay. How much longer is this monkey nuts in office for? Out-thanks for the Rome quote there.
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    North Korea has never had the capability of closing the Straits of Hormuz. Iran doesn't likely have that capability now. Give them the bomb, and they do. That makes things rather different than North Korea, to say the least.

  9. #9
    Sinner's Swing! csm5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    North Korea has never had the capability of closing the Straits of Hormuz. Iran doesn't likely have that capability now. Give them the bomb, and they do. That makes things rather different than North Korea, to say the least.
    Actually I disagree. NK has nukes for sure, we know this for a fact. If I'm not mistaken, they tried not too long ago to test long range missle systems-I believe it didn't work, at least to our knowledge they didn't work. They are certainly closer to the US than Iran. The leader of NK is a bigger quack than the leader of Iran-granted, both are out of their minds, but NK's leader is far worse. I think all of this combined makes NK a much bigger risk. But I'm sure Dumbya will lead us down the wrong path once again and go charging full steam ahead into Iran with no real plan in place (see where we are now). I wonder if he has his excuses lined up or will he go with the old standbys: Iran has WMD's, Iran was involved in 9/11, Iran loves Osama, etc. Again, how much longer is this douche in office for? He's run our country into the ground in his glorious 8 year run. I wish he was more concerened about issues here than issues in Iran. But that's just me.
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  10. #10
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    You don't understand my point. Something like 20% of the world's daily consumption of oil passes along Iran's southern border. If Iran develops the capability to stop traffic through those straits, they have the western world by the nuts.

  11. #11
    Sinner's Swing! csm5150's Avatar
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    Yes, I do understand your point. Both scenarios aren't good. I'm more concerned w/a looney freak who we know for a fact has nukes and is closer to us than Iran is. I don't know what Gerogey boy's problem is w/the middle East, but I'm sure he'll get us into another clusterfuck scenario in Iran.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    North Korea won't lob a nuke at us. You really truly do not need to worry about that. It's not part of the game. For one, they lack the capability. For two, self-preservation is what they do--suicide is not what they do.

  13. #13
    Sinner's Swing! csm5150's Avatar
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    This maybe true, but all it takes is one bad day for Kim to think, "Ah, what the fuck".
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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    That's pretty unlikely to be true. There's an entire state apparatus involved. In any case, North Korea just isn't anywhere near as likely to cause much more than a regional problem. Let's say worst-case there. Japan goes nuclear. China and South Korea react negatively.

    Compare that to the absolute chaos that can be created by the mere notion that Iran could threaten to close the Straits. You wake up in the morning, and there are already lines at the gas station. The Chinese have begun to liquify their US debt instruments in order to outbid everyone for supplies of non-PG crude. That send the dollar into a tailslide, immediately weakening our ability to win contracts that the Europeans and Japan will also be vying for. Economic crisis combined with a scarcity of resources creates warfare. Iran doesn't even have to be involved in order to kick it off. They just have to have a credible threat.

    It's a nightmare scenario that has the potential to drastically change our lives in a very short period of time. It's why we have been increasingly active in the Persian Gulf for the last 20+ years--it's precisely why we became involved to begin with, it directly led us to 9/11 and its aftermath, and it is why we're in Iraq today.

    There's only one possible way to successfully resolve it. We have to have energy independence. Everything else--everything from the early 1980s on--is a short-term band-aide. The only way to put down the tar baby is to no longer need it.

  15. #15
    Hot For Teacher
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    The only way to put down the tar baby is to no longer need it.


    You hit the nail DIRECTLY on the head MikeL!!!!!!!

    Think about it, if we were no longer sucking the tit of Middle East Oil, in part anyway, we have taken their power over us away.
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