Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 9 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 130
  1. #1
    Atomic Punk fast98dodge's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.24.04
    Age
    43
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    8,212
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen II
    Last Online

    08.07.17 @ 08:14 PM
    Likes
    331
    Liked 313 Times in 149 Posts


    Donor

    Default Global Warming??? Hmmm...

    When Physics Trumps Hysteria in Global Warming

    By Michael R. Fox Ph.D., 7/1/2007 11:10:25 AM

    Studiously hidden from public view are some extraordinary findings in physics which are providing new understanding of our planetary history, as well as providing a much more plausible scientific understanding of Global Warming. Regrettably, the current hysteria about global warming is based much more on fear, political agendas, and computer models that don’t agree with each other or the climate, rather than hard-nosed evidence and science.

    The climate forces which have led to the estimated 0.6C degree temperature increase over the past 100 years or more (according to the International Panel on Climate Change) have been assumed to be man-made CO2 emissions from advanced nations including the US. We know this can’t be true for several reasons.

    The first is that water vapor provides 95% of the total of the greenhouse gases, not CO2. The total of the CO2 represents less than 3% of the total. The second is that of the total atmospheric CO2 inventory, the manmade fraction is less than 3% of the CO2 total and therefore far less than 1% of the total greenhouse gas inventories. Third, studies of the recent climate variations are finding, for example, (See article by J. Oestermans, Science, p. 375, April 29, 2005) that glaciers have been receding since 1750 or so, well before any significant man-made CO2 emissions occurred.

    The mid 1700s were at the very depths of the Little Ice Age, which we have learned was the coldest climate over the last 5000 years. Obviously, other warming forces were at work before humans had anything to do with it.

    It seems more logical that natural forces are still at work with warming and cooling our climate. For example, Singer and Avery in their book Unstoppable Global Warming p. xii (http://tinyurl.com/23ljsy) pointed out that over the past 1,000,000 years in climate observations, there have been about 600 periods of warming, and we can surmise from these cycles that among them are about 599 periods of cooling.

    Now we have learned much more based upon observations of cosmic radiation, their sources, and the Sun’s magnetic fields, combined and new discoveries in the laboratory. A new and more comprehensive understanding of our planetary environment has emerged. This gives us a scientifically defensible explanation of both global warming and cooling.

    As the Oesterman study of the 250 years of receding glaciers shows, warming preceded the CO2 increases of the 20th century. That is, man-made CO2 was not significantly involved in this 200 year warming period on the earth. Nor does man-made CO2 explain those 600 periods of warming over the past 1,000,000 years.

    We have known that cosmic radiation is a source of very powerful radiation, more powerful than any in those huge manmade accelerators. We also know that the more energetic cosmic rays can reach the surface of the Earth passing completely through the atmosphere. Those of lesser energy can collide with molecules in the air causing an avalanche of nuclear and particle fragments as they pass through the atmosphere. The energy is dispersed in showers of these particles while still in the atmosphere.

    These collisions are truly nuclear in nature, highly energetic, and take place in our atmosphere every second. These are the nuclear processes by which the atmosphere acts as a protective shield to inhabitants on the earth. These are well known to airline safety experts, as well as to those astronauts who spend weeks and months outside of our protective atmosphere.

    The streams of cosmic radiation originate from deep space sources both within our galaxy, the Milky Way, as well as from galaxies more distant.

    Most of the cosmic rays are charged particles (mostly protons) but less prevalent heavier particles are often measured too, and can be of enormous energy. Being charged particles they can be deflected and modulated by the many magnetic fields found in space. In the proximity of our Sun and the solar system incoming particles “feel” the magnetic field of the Sun and are deflected.

    The extent of the deflection depends upon the strength of the magnetic field of the Sun. The solar magnetic field has been known, studied, and measured for only a few decades. As with other stars, the Sun is able to deflect many, but not all, of these particles of cosmic radiation away from our solar system and our planet according to well-known rules of physics and magnetism.

    Thanks to some recent excellent experimental work in physics by the Danish scientist Henrik Svensmark et al, (http://tinyurl.com/wjcun), we now know that cosmic rays and some of the debris from nuclear collisions with atoms in the atmosphere are directly involved with the initiating mechanisms of cloud formation.

    Basically, the more cosmic rays, the more clouds are formed and the cooler the temperature. Since many of the cosmic rays can be deflected by the Sun’s magnet field, the cosmic ray intensity varies inversely with the strength of that field. The stronger the solar magnetic field, the fewer cosmic rays hit the atmosphere, fewer clouds are formed, and the climate becomes warmer.

    Today the Sun’s magnetic field is more than twice as strong as it was at the turn of the last century. During the mid 1700s during the Little Ice Age there was a 70 year period when there were no sunspots (called the Maunder Minimum), and the solar magnetic field was very weak.

    The cosmic rays were not deflected as much by a weakened solar magnetic field, more clouds were formed, thus a cooler climate at that time. These findings provide a simple plausible explanation, defensible with sound physics, and don’t involve a major role for CO2 at all.

    Some of the materials formed in the atmosphere by the cosmic ray collisions are radioactive as well, and are one of many natural sources of radioactivity. These are deposited in the Earth’s surface, and are used to construct a very accurate history of the geology and climate millions of years ago. It can be measured with surprising accuracy.

    In this instance some important collision products formed in the upper atmosphere, are carbon-14 (C-14) and berrylium-10 (Be-10). Being radioactive they decay into non-radioactive products. These have accurately known periods of decay and scientists can measure these materials in both ice cores and geologic cores samples.

    The amounts measured are directly related to many important natural features. Variations in both C-14 and Be-10 can be used to deduce the historical record of variations in the solar magnetic field. By similar techniques the scientists are able to determine variations in the cosmic radiation rates directly, going back hundreds of millions of years. Since the rate of influx of cosmic rays over time has not been constant, our climate has not been constant either.

    What lies ahead are some exciting times in climate physics and our understanding of the environment. Unexplained findings in geological and climate histories are now being explained by these new lines of inquiry. It appears that the Sun’s magnetic field has had a stronger effect on our climate than just the variations in solar irradiance could explain.

    Political leaders, environmental advocates, and even Oscar-winning documentarians who claim that “the debate of climate science is over”, have been shown once again to be very wrong.

    Michael R. Fox, Ph.D., a science and energy reporter for Hawaii Reporter and a science analyist for the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii, is retired and now lives in Eastern Washington. He has nearly 40 years experience in the energy field. He has also taught chemistry and energy at the University level. His interest in the communications of science has led to several communications awards, hundreds of speeches, and many appearances on television and talk shows.
    Jet City Super Stealth
    Marshall 50th Anniversary JCM-1H and Class 5 Combo
    Austin Speaker Works KTS-60

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk smithjc's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.12.00
    Location
    The US of A
    Posts
    16,463
    Favorite VH Album

    Women & Children First
    Favorite VH Song

    Fools/All things Halenized
    Last Online

    08.04.17 @ 11:33 PM
    Likes
    130
    Liked 29 Times in 14 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Very interesting read. Wondering why it's not more widely reported tho.

    Any thoughts?

    psst - don't tell Al Gore
    RIP - Classic Van Halen

    "A lot of people take Van Halen more seriously than we do." The Diamond One



  3. #3
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.13.04
    Posts
    6,169
    Favorite VH Album

    Complete Zero
    Favorite VH Song

    Lets Get Rockin
    Last Online

    12.13.17 @ 03:10 AM
    Likes
    548
    Liked 1,861 Times in 730 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Well I think it is not more widely reported because it doesn't fit the current political agenda of the media and the politicians. Undoubtedly Al Gore is the Father of Global Warming. He has warned us all about it and if you don't believe in him or his agenda than you are an idiot. You just don't care about the earth you live on. If any politician were to start contradicting the global warming theory he would be called delusional since we have such great movies like An Inconvenient Truth that show us that we are indeed destroying this massive planet. The media has to stay away from a story like this for the same reason. You may see it on Fox News but than again we all know that what ever they report must be a lie to make George Bush look better. Global Warming is now a religion and a business model. So many businesses out today are relying on it to stay in business. Everything is "GREEN" or you have to be "Carbon Neutral" and if you aren't than you are an ignorant bafoon.

    Even if physics can prove that global warming is just the earths way of surviving regardless of what this big mean earth does to humans, the religion of global warming will never go away. People respond to fear and as long as you are afraid you may be destroying this earth when you drink bottled water or turn on a regular light bulb than it is here to stay.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.17.00
    Posts
    11,536
    Last Online

    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Default

    If you don't believe that climate change is happening, you've got your head in the sand. I spent last weekend up along Lake Superior, where I go once a month in the summer. The lake is over 14 inches lower than it was last year. The sheer volume of water that has disappeared is staggering.

    Why we have politicized this is beyond me. People are idiots.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.17.00
    Posts
    11,536
    Last Online

    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Default

    If I've done the math right, that's 7,712,688,283,624 gallons of fresh water that have disappeared from one lake in one year. Almost 8 trillion gallons.

  6. #6
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.13.04
    Posts
    6,169
    Favorite VH Album

    Complete Zero
    Favorite VH Song

    Lets Get Rockin
    Last Online

    12.13.17 @ 03:10 AM
    Likes
    548
    Liked 1,861 Times in 730 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    I seem to remember hearing that on a psa on the radio and the female voice over telling people to think twice before washing their cars and watering their lawns. Maybe we can save the planet if we all just kill ourselves. That's really the only answer to it.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  7. #7
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    54
    Location
    On the wild card line...
    Posts
    28,679
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 06:29 PM
    Likes
    1,046
    Liked 1,348 Times in 925 Posts

    Default

    Seems as if there are two sides and they're both on opposite ends - one side says everything we do is totally messing up the planet and we need to stop cold turkey and the other says that we don't have any effect on things so let's do as we wish. Why can't there be a bigger camp in the middle that says, "we don't have as big an effect on things as we think, but still, it doesn't hurt to be cleaner than we currently are"

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.17.00
    Posts
    11,536
    Last Online

    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Default

    Better than that, Billy, why can't people simply acknowledge that change is happening? And that we don't know the cause or the real ramifications? Too many people seem to read one article or endorse one point of view out of shameless ignorance. They'll fall into their party lines and parrot opinions they've heard someone else parrot, draw erroneous conclusions based on their own opinions, and become vehement about their position.

    Why not just conclude that we don't know enough, that reasonable precautions are just that--reasonable, and have an open mind as to the voracity of claims being made by the talking heads on each side? People work way too hard at being stupid.

  9. #9
    Eruption vh resurrection's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.03.04
    Age
    42
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,406
    Favorite VH Album

    VHII, WACF, 5150
    Last Online

    03.31.15 @ 05:22 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    If I've done the math right, that's 7,712,688,283,624 gallons of fresh water that have disappeared from one lake in one year. Almost 8 trillion gallons.
    Of course, the water couldn't really disappear. It just went somewhere else.

    I think a climate change is happening but it could just be a cycle of the Earth. Was it man's industrial revolution and pollution that caused the last Ice Age?
    "Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to introduce the king of 10 fingers and six strings... Mr. Edward Van Halen!"

  10. #10
    Eruption
    Join Date
    01.26.00
    Location
    Tornado Alley, Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,321
    Last Online

    07.14.10 @ 09:31 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    And where do you think that water went to? Lake-->water vapor-->clouds-->rain (somewhere). There may be drought conditions there now, but it will replenish itself sooner or later. Droughts are normal. Floods are normal. It floods in one part of the world while there is drought in another. It's normal. You should've come to Oklahoma this time last year when we were in one of our worst recorded droughts ever and everyone was freakin' out over it. Everything was bone dry, and some lakes were 20 ft. or more below normal. This year it literally flooded and those same lakes are now ABOVE normal!!! This stuff happens man, it's not THAT uncommon. Just because it's the first time you've ever seen anything like this in your life doesn't mean it hasn't happened millions of times throughout history. One thing you have to realize is that most of these scientists that are highly outspoken on global warming are also greatly influenced by politicians and special interest groups. Do people think it use to be 72 degrees and sunny everyday? Yes, climate change is obviously occurring.....it's been occurring everyday since the beginning of the earth. It's a constant change. And more importantly, it's an UNPREDICTABLE change. Meteorologists will be the first to tell you this. There are WAY too many variables at work that go beyond CO2 emissions alone. Besides, how can anyone determine what is considered normal anyways based off of records that only go back 100 years? Actually not even near that long if you want accurate global records. Besides, aren't we coming out of an ice age anyway? I would expect more global warming to occur indeed, lol! Bottom line is that Al Whore and his followers are going to blame every single weather event across the world on global warming. If it's hot, global warming! If it's cold, global warming! If it rains, global warming! If it's 72 degrees and sunny, GLOBAL WARMING! And because future weather/climatology is such an imperfect science, no one will be able to prove them right or wrong. Although it IS a pretty clever way to remain in the spotlight long past your time I suppose. Now, seriously, is global warming a result of man? I don't know, but the point I'm trying to make is that no one does, it's all just speculation. I know enough about meteorology to know that. The climate system is way more complex than the average person realizes.

  11. #11
    Good Enough weesfreewheelin's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.08.02
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,060
    Favorite VH Song

    Ain\'t talkin bout love
    Last Online

    07.19.17 @ 06:26 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 30 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    If I've done the math right, that's 7,712,688,283,624 gallons of fresh water that have disappeared from one lake in one year. Almost 8 trillion gallons.
    If "global warming" truely exist, and the ice caps are melting, shouldn't your water levels be at an increase? Maybe some other explanation exist (increased usage,temporary drought) for your lower water levels. A few years ago, because of a local drought, the same thing happened at the local lake I use for boating. Levels dropped so low they had to close half of the landing. Today everything is back to normal.
    Know Roth
    Know Van Halen

    No Roth
    No Van Halen

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.17.00
    Posts
    11,536
    Last Online

    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bcgvh View Post
    And where do you think that water went to? Lake-->water vapor-->clouds-->rain (somewhere).
    No shit? Really? Gosh, hadn't thought of that... Then again, that's why I said "disappeared from the lake."

    There may be drought conditions there now, but it will replenish itself sooner or later.
    And now you're talking beyond your personal knowledge. The problem isn't the dry conditions, but rather than the lake hasn't frozen over the past few years. The winters up here haven't been cold enough. The temperature of the lake has risen. Evaporation rates are highest in the winter. If we keep experiencing mild winters, the problem will continue to accelerate.

    Unfortunately, there's a price to pay for this. Shipping is having problems. Some parts of the harbors are now unusable. Ships aren't able to be as deeply loaded. Plenty of the marinas are having problems with grounding.

    I know enough about meteorology to know that. The climate system is way more complex than the average person realizes.
    Meteorologists generally know very little about climatology. They're trained in the science of the hows and whys of weather, not in the history of it. Climatology is a very different gig. I've spent several years working in different aspects of the weather business.

    What I will agree with you on is that we don't know the causes or scope of the changes that are happening. We simply lack enough data to view the long-term pattern with any real understanding. We don't know much about day to day climatology prior to the industrial revolution. We've only had substantial amounts of uniformly collected raw data for the past sixty to seventy years--the density of that data in most parts of the world is pretty sparse.
    Last edited by MikeL; 07.24.07 at 07:42 AM.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.17.00
    Posts
    11,536
    Last Online

    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weesfreewheelin View Post
    If "global warming" truely exist, and the ice caps are melting, shouldn't your water levels be at an increase?
    Wouldn't it be cool if we could talk about complex systems in really easy to understand ways, so that a person wouldn't need a decade of specialized instruction in order to understand the complex interactions at play? I think it would be, but that's not how it is. This isn't something that laymen such as ourselves can dismiss with simple questions derived from spurious conclusions.

    I don't mean to be a dick, but your question is like what someone would hear on a talk radio program.

  14. #14
    Good Enough weesfreewheelin's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.08.02
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,060
    Favorite VH Song

    Ain\'t talkin bout love
    Last Online

    07.19.17 @ 06:26 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 30 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post

    I don't mean to be a dick, but your question is like what someone would hear on a talk radio program.
    Whatever. I would love to stay here and talk spurious global warming with ya, but that global warming just runs right through me.

    I'll take my answer off the air please.
    Know Roth
    Know Van Halen

    No Roth
    No Van Halen

  15. #15
    Eruption
    Join Date
    01.26.00
    Location
    Tornado Alley, Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,321
    Last Online

    07.14.10 @ 09:31 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    Meteorologists generally know very little about climatology. They're trained in the science of the hows and whys of weather, not in the history of it. Climatology is a very different gig. I've spent several years working in different aspects of the weather business.

    What I will agree with you on is that we don't know the causes or scope of the changes that are happening. We simply lack enough data to view the long-term pattern with any real understanding. We don't know much about day to day climatology prior to the industrial revolution. We've only had substantial amounts of uniformly collected raw data for the past sixty to seventy years--the density of that data in most parts of the world is pretty sparse.
    Yes, there is truth to that. I haven't studied much climatology, but I've studied a lot of meteorology (forecasting, reading/interpretting models, etc.) and even with the advanced forecasting models that we have available, it's very hard to get a grasp on what's going to occur because there's so many variables that go into play, many of which cannot be foreseen. So it makes me laugh whenever I see scientists trying to develop models that show weather patterns and climatology 100 years into the future. And like you said, we lack enough data to determine long-term patterns. So yeah, climate change is always occurring, but whether or not it's man-made and/or a bad thing is impossible to know.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Global Warming? More like Global Cooling.
    By rocknblues81 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 501
    Last Post: 10.16.17, 10:44 AM
  2. Global Warming
    By TheresOnlyOneWay in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 139
    Last Post: 10.05.10, 02:41 PM
  3. Kick Ass Series About The Science Of Global Warming
    By Axxman300 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06.05.07, 12:18 PM
  4. Global Warming? What's the truth Al?
    By map57 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02.27.07, 12:01 PM
  5. California sues automakers for global warming...
    By timmac in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09.22.06, 01:06 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •