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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Brigham Young=Bin Laden? Sept. 11, 1857

    A 19th-Century 9/11

    By Robert D. Novak
    Thursday, May 3, 2007; Page A25

    Opening August 24, a motion picture called "September Dawn" (Website: http://www.septemberdawn.net/) depicts a brutal American massacre that has been forgotten. On Sept. 11, 1857, in Utah Territory, Mormons slaughtered more than 120 California-bound settlers from Arkansas. Retelling at this time the Sept. 11 carnage of 150 years ago does not help Mormon Mitt Romney's presidential campaign.

    The basic facts of the Mountain Meadows Massacre are not in dispute. Mormons mobilized Paiute Indians, accompanied by Mormons disguised as Indians, to attack a peaceful wagon train. The settlers beat back the attack but were left short of food and ammunition. They disarmed at the request of the Mormons, who said they would lead the settlers to safety but instead turned on them, murdering every man, woman and child above age 8. All that is in doubt historically is whether this was ordered by Brigham Young, president of the Mormon Church and territorial governor of Utah. "September Dawn" says he was responsible; the church denies it.

    Today's Mormons, including Romney, cannot be blamed for those events. Nevertheless, the candidate has followed the church's example and ignored the movie. Romney will not comment on "September Dawn" and indeed will not watch it. That follows his decision not to defend his faith or actively fight religious bias that has impeded his candidacy.

    I attended an April 11 screening of the movie at the Motion Picture Association of America headquarters in Washington hosted by its lead actor: Academy Award-winner Jon Voight (who plays a fictional Mormon bishop). A conservative, Voight said this was no hit on Romney. "I didn't even know he was running when we began this," he told viewers after the screening. But he said this terrible story is important considering America's war against terrorists.

    Brigham Young -- played by the British actor Terence Stamp -- is portrayed in the film as a 19th-century Osama bin Laden. Calling himself a "second Muhammad," he insists on the "shedding of blood" of "gentiles." He is seen fighting the United States, which was sending troops to Utah.

    The church has always accepted Young's plea that he had nothing to do with the massacre. But Voight is certain that he did based on research for the movie. "If any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats," Young said in his "Blood Atonement Sermon" (which concluded that he would not fight "unless they come upon us and compel us"). The movie's researchers found in the church's archives a generic threat against interlopers: "I will loose the Indians on them, and I will slit their throats from ear to ear."

    In response to this column's inquiry, a Mormon Church spokeswoman in Salt Lake City said yesterday: "The weight of historical evidence shows that Brigham Young did not authorize the massacre." She added that "the church has no comment on the 'September Dawn' movie."

    John D. Lee, Young's adopted son and the man who led the massacre, was executed by firing squad 20 years after the killings -- the only person punished. "I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner," he said after his conviction and excommunication. In his autobiography, he said the attack was planned "by the direct command of Brigham Young."

    I knew no Mormons growing up in Joliet, Ill., and my first experience with the church was watching the 1940 film "Brigham Young." It depicted the Mormon settlers as persecuted and peaceful, and Young as prudent and wise. When some Mormons complained then that Young came across as vacillating, church President Heber J. Grant said of the movie: "I endorse it with all my heart. This is one of the greatest days of my life." He knew it could have been much worse.

    Mitt Romney surely is not responsible for Brigham Young, but questions about what kind of man Young was hurt his campaign. Romney has been described by many Republican insiders as the perfect candidate: magnetic, smart and with an excellent record as an executive. His greatest liability has been religious bias against him. He has never seized this issue, thinking it so wrongheaded that it will go away.

    Similarly, he has rejected efforts by the producers of "September Dawn" to reach out to him. I made three attempts without success to get his views of the movie. Neither watching it nor condemning it, he may just hope that Americans will not include this bloody tragedy in their spring and summer viewing.

    2007 Creators Syndicate Inc.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050202010.html
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
    George Bernard Shaw

  2. #2
    Good Enough
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    I did a paper on this last year, I meant to post something about the date but forgot.

  3. #3
    5150 HuBBs5150's Avatar
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    05.26.15 @ 05:03 PM
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    Yes it happened, but there were other circumstances that led up to the massacre. There was an incident called the Hans Mill massacre where tons of mormons were murdered. And in Moutain medow there were tons of people from hans meld that took part in the massacre. In fact those people where still issuing threats about finishing the job. So in return, some mormons in fear and some in revenge attacked mountain medows. Brigham Young did not approve of this massacre BTW.

    I guarentee you that when history classes talk about mormons they'll bring up the mountain medos massacre, but they'll forget the Hans Mill massacre that preceded it.
    Last edited by HuBBs5150; 07.13.07 at 12:34 PM.
    -----HuBBs5150-----

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  4. #4
    Top Of The World bigdrewhalenite's Avatar
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    07.14.15 @ 11:29 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuBBs5150 View Post
    Yes it happened, but there were other circumstances that led up to the massacre. There was an incident called the Hans Mill massacre where tons of mormons were murdered. And in Moutain medow there were tons of people from hans meld that took part in the massacre. In fact those people where still issuing threats about finishing the job. So in return, some mormons in fear and some in revenge attacked mountain medows. Brigham Young did not approve of this massacre BTW.

    I guarentee you that when history classes talk about mormons they'll bring up the mountain medos massacre, but they'll forget the Hans Mill massacre that preceded it.
    Thanks, bro. I'm a Mormon. I sincerely appreciate you pointing out the Hahn's Mill Massacre. It DOES get overlooked by Mormon bashers.
    Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent.- Isaac Asimov

  5. #5
    5150 HuBBs5150's Avatar
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    i'm mormon too, so it bothers me when people continue to use old tactics(that have been disproven) in a new way to try and discredit the church.
    -----HuBBs5150-----

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  6. #6
    On Fire space4rent5150's Avatar
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    10.30.15 @ 04:15 PM
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    the mormon religion is bullshit. yah, I said it. I will ever go as far to say that all religion and the whole idea OF religion is bullshit. The bible, which are fictional storys that have been changed over time isnt a book to live your life by. To make these storys out to be fact shows how stupid some people are.

    And, NO, I am not Aithiest or how ever the fuck yah spell it. I believe in god. I just think that the whole idea of having to choose a religion and live by the said religions rules or "you go to hell" is bullshit. Why cant one person just be a nice person who doesnt hurt people and believes that being a good hearted person should be enough, be enough to go to heaven??

    I know im WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYY off subject but it just pmade me think of that.

    I know im gonna get slammed by everyone. But, Im really not trying to start shit. Everyone believes what tey believe. Everyone has there faith. If that faith is what will get you through the day, then awsome!

    Ok, im done.

    Let the ripping of my new asshole comence.

    ~S4R
    FULL TIME LURKER

  7. #7
    Banned! AryanStrikeForce88's Avatar
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    ..
    Last edited by OLO; 07.18.07 at 05:49 PM.

  8. #8
    Top Of The World bigdrewhalenite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by space4rent5150 View Post
    the mormon religion is bullshit. yah, I said it. I will ever go as far to say that all religion and the whole idea OF religion is bullshit. The bible, which are fictional storys that have been changed over time isnt a book to live your life by. To make these storys out to be fact shows how stupid some people are.

    And, NO, I am not Aithiest or how ever the fuck yah spell it. I believe in god. I just think that the whole idea of having to choose a religion and live by the said religions rules or "you go to hell" is bullshit. Why cant one person just be a nice person who doesnt hurt people and believes that being a good hearted person should be enough, be enough to go to heaven??

    I know im WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYY off subject but it just pmade me think of that.

    I know im gonna get slammed by everyone. But, Im really not trying to start shit. Everyone believes what tey believe. Everyone has there faith. If that faith is what will get you through the day, then awsome!

    Ok, im done.

    Let the ripping of my new asshole comence.

    ~S4R
    If you're not trying to start something, then try using slightly more diplomatic terms when describing what others would consider to be very important and even sacred aspects of their daily lives.

    That being said, I respect and understand your opinion, even if you don't respect mine.
    Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent.- Isaac Asimov

 

 

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