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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Copyrighted material...?

    Several years ago, a poster who'd never heard the Ed/Alex Van Halen tune "Respect The Wind" (from the "Twister" movie soundtrack) asked if someone could/would make it available in a thread here at the Links. Brett responded that he had a copy, and would thusly make it available in the thread.

    At the time, I PM'ed Brett and cautioned against this practice, as at the time the R.I.A.A was cracking down on grandmothers as well as 12 year olds for distributing legally copyrighted material to others. As a result, Brett decided not to go through with the effort.

    So here we are in 2007: Virtually anyone can make a home-made video of someone's copyrighted work, stick it on "YouTube" and one can post it (along with just about anything) where one chooses, including the Links...with apparent legal impunity.

    Precisely where, when and how did things change? As one (among others who obviously show a fairer and far more well rounded sense of restraint than I ) who frequently posits video material from "YouTube" here at this site, am I possibly opening the site up to some sort of legal ramifications for doing so?

    I am fairly certain that decades of copyright legislation have not merely been thrown out the window, even with the dubious practices in legal methodology of the Bush administration. Yet still...

    Thanks for any light that can be shed upon this subject.

    ...craig
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
    George Bernard Shaw

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium hatchetforce's Avatar
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    My Hatch TV stuff is primarily embedded from other user's accounts. So culpability lies with them. I figure embedding is a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark.

    Most of the Jeff Beck thread stuff i steal like five mofos with Firefox Greasemonkey extension, because it appears so infrequently.

    "Steal not one more link of chain than you can swim with" ~ Sun Tzu

    . . . . .
    "The eagle lands at midnight: bacon burger ice cube over" ~ jetguy5150

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk onefootoutthedoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchetforce View Post
    My Hatch TV stuff is primarily embedded from other user's accounts. So culpability lies with them. I figure embedding is a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark.

    Most of the Jeff Beck thread stuff i steal like five mofos with Firefox Greasemonkey extension, because it appears so infrequently.

    "Steal not one more link of chain than you can swim with" ~ Sun Tzu


    Sigworthy stuff there hatch! LOL
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 02:36 PM
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    Craig, as long as we're not distributing it here on this site, I think we're OK. Certainly we can't be blamed for the stuff that is on their site. So no worries.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Craig, as long as we're not distributing it here on this site, I think we're OK. Certainly we can't be blamed for the stuff that is on their site. So no worries.

    Thanks, man.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
    George Bernard Shaw

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk smithjc's Avatar
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    Well I'd still love to have that tune instead of the entire Twister soundtrack. I wondered about all of this as well since a lot of stuff ends up on the 'net.
    RIP - Classic Van Halen

    "A lot of people take Van Halen more seriously than we do." The Diamond One



  7. #7
    On Fire LegallyInsane's Avatar
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    As an attorney, let me state categorically that copyright law has not changed. Enforcement efforts by the copyright holders may have decreased but that does not improve a person's legal standing. As for YouTube, you will note that when a copyright holder is made aware of infringing material, it comes down very quickly. That doesn't mean they know about everything but I wouldn't want to be in a position of having to explain why something appeared via my account. Brett was wise not to have posted "Respect the Wind."

    By the way, you might be interested to know that if you created a bootleg (say from a show in 2004), YOU hold the copyright to that recording and can distribute it as you wish. Now, the artist might be entitled to royalties from the song itself but that particular recording is yours and you may distribute to whomever you wish.
    Psalms 75:10: "All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; BUT THE HORNS OF THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL BE EXALTED."

    J.A.S. 8/10/1936 - 10/28/2006. I miss you, Mom.

    My favorite number used to be 5150. Now, it's 41-38.
    Texas Longhorns: 2005 National Champions!!!

    Political Correctness means always having to say you're sorry.

    "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

    "[T]he only way you're gonna get fulfilled is to sit right there in that front row and just get your face bashed in." - Sammy Hagar

  8. #8
    On Fire LegallyInsane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithjc View Post
    Well I'd still love to have that tune instead of the entire Twister soundtrack. I wondered about all of this as well since a lot of stuff ends up on the 'net.
    The Net right now is like the Old West used to be. Old law is difficult at best to apply and finding the violators is often difficult. Copyright is merely one area where things are crazy and sometimes sporadic in enforcement.
    Psalms 75:10: "All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; BUT THE HORNS OF THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL BE EXALTED."

    J.A.S. 8/10/1936 - 10/28/2006. I miss you, Mom.

    My favorite number used to be 5150. Now, it's 41-38.
    Texas Longhorns: 2005 National Champions!!!

    Political Correctness means always having to say you're sorry.

    "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

    "[T]he only way you're gonna get fulfilled is to sit right there in that front row and just get your face bashed in." - Sammy Hagar

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
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    12.07.17 @ 12:54 PM
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    Anti-Bootleg Statute {Section 2319A}: This federal anti-bootleg statute was created in December 1994. Like the pre-existing state statutes, the new federal statute criminalizes the unauthorized manufacture, distribution or trafficking in sound recordings and music videos of "live" musical performances. However, the federal statute also provides for the seizure of bootleg recordings or music videos manufactured outside the United States by U.S. Customs at the point of importation. In effect, bootleg recordings are now subject to seizure and forfeiture in the same manner as other property in violation of customs laws.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  10. #10
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 02:36 PM
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    Note that it is not illegal to possess or obtain bootlegs, just sell them.
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  11. #11
    On Fire LegallyInsane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Note that it is not illegal to possess or obtain bootlegs, just sell them.
    Nor is it illegal to share so long as you are not obtaining "commercial advantage or private financial gain." In other words, if you are not receiving monetary gain in some form from this, the statute is inapplicable. The statute does not affect the basic establishment of copyrights in a bootleg recording but merely addresses the trafficking and distribution for profit.

    More specifically, 18 USC 2319A statute states that:

    "(a) Offense.— Whoever, without the consent of the performer or performers involved, knowingly and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain—
    (1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation;
    (2) transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance; or
    (3) distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred in the United States;
    shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, or if the offense is a second or subsequent offense, shall be imprisoned for not more than 10 years or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both.
    (b) Forfeiture and Destruction.— When a person is convicted of a violation of subsection (a), the court shall order the forfeiture and destruction of any copies or phonorecords created in violation thereof, as well as any plates, molds, matrices, masters, tapes, and film negatives by means of which such copies or phonorecords may be made. The court may also, in its discretion, order the forfeiture and destruction of any other equipment by means of which such copies or phonorecords may be reproduced, taking into account the nature, scope, and proportionality of the use of the equipment in the offense.
    (c) Seizure and Forfeiture.— If copies or phonorecords of sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance are fixed outside of the United States without the consent of the performer or performers involved, such copies or phonorecords are subject to seizure and forfeiture in the United States in the same manner as property imported in violation of the customs laws. The Secretary of the Treasury shall, not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of the Uruguay Round Agreements Act, issue regulations to carry out this subsection, including regulations by which any performer may, upon payment of a specified fee, be entitled to notification by the United States Customs Service of the importation of copies or phonorecords that appear to consist of unauthorized fixations of the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance. ..."
    Psalms 75:10: "All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; BUT THE HORNS OF THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL BE EXALTED."

    J.A.S. 8/10/1936 - 10/28/2006. I miss you, Mom.

    My favorite number used to be 5150. Now, it's 41-38.
    Texas Longhorns: 2005 National Champions!!!

    Political Correctness means always having to say you're sorry.

    "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

    "[T]he only way you're gonna get fulfilled is to sit right there in that front row and just get your face bashed in." - Sammy Hagar

  12. #12
    Banned! Apocalypso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegallyInsane View Post
    By the way, you might be interested to know that if you created a bootleg (say from a show in 2004), YOU hold the copyright to that recording and can distribute it as you wish. Now, the artist might be entitled to royalties from the song itself but that particular recording is yours and you may distribute to whomever you wish.
    Huh. I gotta lot of people I need to be suing seeing as how I was the person who originally recorded the widely copied 6/21/81 show at the LA Forum.

    T.B.

  13. #13
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    LOL good luck with that.
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  14. #14
    Banned! Apocalypso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    LOL good luck with that.
    What's even better is that when I did the free 2 cd set from my original tape for the VHML around '99 - 2000 for people to seed and tree out through the mail before file torrents became a big deal, some people would burn copies and copy my artwork off Ron Higgin's website and turn around and sell 'em for up to 80 bucks on eBay.

    http://www.vhboots.com/fullmoonfw.html

    T.B.

  15. #15
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Welcome to the world of bootlegging.

    Pretty sure that better sources turned up for that recording years later actually.
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