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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 06:24 AM
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    Default Report: CIA ran secret prisons in Poland

    Report: CIA had prisons in Poland
    POSTED: 7:06 a.m. EDT, June 8, 2007
    Story Highlights
    • Report: CIA ran secret prisons in Poland and Romania from 2003 to 2005
    • Germany, Italy accused of obstructing alleged secret CIA detentions probe
    • Evidence shows Poland, Romania played pivotal role in secret flights
    • Report lists "deliberately diisguised" CIA flights used to move terror suspects

    PARIS, France (AP) -- The CIA ran secret prisons in Poland and Romania from 2003 to 2005 to interrogate detainees in its war on terror, European investigator Dick Marty said in a report released Friday.

    The report, citing unnamed CIA sources, said top terror suspects Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed were secretly held and interrogated in Poland, and that the "highest state authorities" in countries involved knew of the alleged detention centers.

    Sheikh Mohammed is the self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States. Abu Zubaydah is a suspected senior al-Qaeda operative.

    Marty also accused Germany and Italy of obstructing his probe into the alleged secret detentions by the CIA.

    The report said collaboration by U.S. allies was critical to the secret detention program, which took place in the framework of NATO's security policy.

    "The secret detention facilities in Europe were run directly and exclusively by the CIA," said the report. "While it is likely that very few people in the countries concerned, including in the governments themselves, knew of the existence of the centers, we have sufficient grounds to declare that the highest state authorities were aware of the CIA's illegal activities on their territories."

    Poland and Romania hosted the prisons under a special post-9/11 CIA program to "kill, capture and detain" so-called high value terrorist suspects, wrote Marty, a Swiss senator investigating the alleged role of Council of Europe states in the CIA program.

    Evidence of secret flights -- at least 10 flights to Poland between 2002 and 2005 -- show the pivotal role played by Poland and Romania as drop-off points, the report says.

    "There is now enough evidence to state that secret detention facilities run by the CIA did exist in Europe from 2003 to 2005, in particular in Poland and Romania," the report said.

    Marty did not name sources from his information, but said that the report was based on discussions with people "who had worked or still worked for the relevant authorities, in particular intelligence agencies."

    "We have never based our conclusions on single statements and we have only used information that is confirmed by other, totally independent sources," the report said, adding that where possible information was "cross-checked" in the European countries in question, in the United States or through documents or data.

    "Clearly, our individual sources were only willing to talk to us on the condition of absolute anonymity," the report said.

    Last year, Marty accused 14 European nations -- spanning a swath from Dublin to Berlin to Bucharest -- of colluding with U.S. intelligence in a web of rights abuses to help the CIA spirit terror suspects to illegal detention facilities.

    Marty said evidence suggested that CIA-linked planes carrying terror suspects had landed at airports in Timisoara, Romania, and Szymany, Poland, and likely dropped off detainees there.

    His second report confirms Szymany as a drop-off point in Poland, where at least 10 flights -- six coming from Kabul, Afghanistan -- landing there.

    The report lists eight of the CIA flights, with one each originating in Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates and Rabat, Morocco, and says it can be "demonstrated" that the majority of them were "deliberately disguised."
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  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 09:41 AM
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    No surprises here. What would be surprising is if anything comes of this. Kidnapping will be given a new euphemism, as will torture .......

    Oh wait, they already have.
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  3. #3
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 04:30 PM
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    good, I hope they were productive interrogations. This is not new. This has been going on since the cold war
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  4. #4
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    07.27.07 @ 01:06 PM
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    I have a real question:

    Let’s say we got the goods from one of these people being held in Poland (or anywhere). By acting on this information the US was able to avoid another Sept 11th type of attack. Assume the evidence is irrefutable, the info we received REALLY saved thousands of American lives.

    Now, pretend you found out months later we came by this information through means of torture. I'm talking the real deal, beatings, sleep deprivation, cutting off of fingers and toes, hobbling, the whole nine yards. And it took all of this to get the info, this dude was tough and he didn't spill the beans until after losing half his toes and one of his eyes.

    Would you question our methods?

    I'm not trying to start anything, honestly. I would really like to know how others would feel.

  5. #5
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 04:30 PM
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    that does sound terrible, but it would be a last resort. Hopefully it would be made clear that all the prisoner has to do is fess up- that's not too much to ask, in exchange for not torturing him. it's up to the prisoner. Simple choice on his part. He'll have brought it upon himself- one could argue. One life vs thousands? easy choice. We were willing to shoot down one of those planes on 9/11 in order to save thousands
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    03.07.10 @ 06:18 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by willy4pres View Post
    I have a real question:
    Let’s say we got the goods from one of these people being held in Poland (or anywhere). By acting on this information the US was able to avoid another Sept 11th type of attack. Assume the evidence is irrefutable, the info we received REALLY saved thousands of American lives.
    Now, pretend you found out months later we came by this information through means of torture. I'm talking the real deal, beatings, sleep deprivation, cutting off of fingers and toes, hobbling, the whole nine yards. And it took all of this to get the info, this dude was tough and he didn't spill the beans until after losing half his toes and one of his eyes.

    Would you question our methods?
    I hate to be blase about this, yet simply put, Nope. This puts to mind the old Star Trek quandary of "the needs of the few (or one) outweighing the needs of the many", and vice versa.

    Too many innocent folk suffered through the actions that took place on September 11, 2001. In the eyes of the world, Americans are culpable for the actions of their government, and as such are treated as soldiers when it comes to bodycount. Israel may endorse this thinking in regard to it's own citizens, yet the concept is an alien one to most Americans. How a woman with pushing a baby carriage should be held accountable for the edicts of the Bush administration is a mystery, yet the woman and child arei viewed as viable targets by an enemy.

    As a participant in actions against the innocent, the informer is beyond the compassion afforded by the Geneva Convention, in my view. Does this make the actions put forth on our citizen's behalf (and thusly my support of them) in effect stooping to our enemies level? Sadly, you are fucking right it does.

    Yet if asked if I can sleep at night with the knowledge that a large amount of innocent lives have been spared by these actions, and I will not be witnessing the trauma visited at the behest of another Pearl Harbor or 9/11/2001, the answer is: "Yup, in fact, I can sleep quite soundly as a result."
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    My response is this:

    Good.

    It's nice to see the CIA grow some fucking balls and brains and think outside of the box for once.

    Big thumbs up to Poland.
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  8. #8
    Eruption JasonG5150's Avatar
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    07.11.07 @ 10:15 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    My response is this:

    Good.

    It's nice to see the CIA grow some fucking balls and brains and think outside of the box for once.

    Big thumbs up to Poland.
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