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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk stilleddiesangel's Avatar
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    08.25.17 @ 05:45 PM
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    Default From a military view.. is this the right decision!

    UN colonel backs Prince Harry decision

    THE decision not to deploy Prince Harry to Iraq due to "specific threats" against him was the right one, a former UN commander in Bosnia said today.

    Colonel Bob Stewart said if the Army had allowed the third in line to the throne to see service in the Middle East and something had happened to him, then they would be held responsible.

    The head of the Army, General Sir Richard Dannatt - who had previously said Harry would be deployed as a troop leader with the Household Cavalry - said yesterday that he had taken the decision because of "specific threats" to the prince.

    Following a visit to Iraq at the end of last week, he concluded that Harry and those troops serving with him would be exposed to an "unacceptable" degree of risk if his deployment went ahead.

    Col Stewart, the first British UN commander in Bosnia, said today: "Sir Richard Dannatt has had to make a decision based on intelligence. This is a military decision, not a political one.

    "Things have changed and as a result of that change, this man, this individual is under much greater threat than anyone else."

    Clarence House has insisted Harry remains committed to his military career and will not quit the Army. But some military figures said he had lost credibility in the service and predicted he would resign his commission

    http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=768042007



    I wanted to ask those with military training if they would agree with the decision to not deploy Prince Harry. One of the things that pisses me off about this is the press shouting from the roof tops that he was going in the first place. We didnt know about Prince Andrew going to the Falklands till he had almost finished his duty. I can see he would be a target, and I can also see those around him would be at greater risk also. But there is a huge outcry over it as soe take the stance that his life is worth more than our other men out there, which of course, it's not.
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  2. #2
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 10:52 AM
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    Good points SEA. The key point is the announcement that he was going in the first place. After that I think they made the only decision they could. I agree at that point it's not about Harry anymore, it's about protecting the troops that would be with him. I can just see the media giving a daily intelligence report on where in Irag Prince Harry is every day.

    I don't think this is political. I am willing to bet that Harry would have gone without a complaint being uttered. Of course I don't know him all that well.
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  3. #3
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    07.27.07 @ 01:06 PM
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    It sounded like the kid wanted to go and he's fully qualified to lead troops. If he's a good troop handler and willing to go I don't understand how anyone can stop him. I don't usually use the term "troop", I hate that term, but im not sure how else to say it in this thread.

    For the British military it was a lose lose situation. It sends a terrible message to not send him because of the danger, and at the same time if they send him and he's captured...well, we all know how that could be viewed (on both sides).

    My view on the whole thing, he should have gone. He seems like the real deal, he's a military guy (I know he technically has to do it considering his position), it's what they do.

    I have been out for over a year, im 34, recently married with a brand new three month old. I don't want to spend a second away from them, their all I think about. Having said that, I would do anything to get to Iraq, I feel like im supposed to be there and not going will be my greatest regret.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk stilleddiesangel's Avatar
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    08.25.17 @ 05:45 PM
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    Word is, he is not happy about the situation and wanted to go. As far as he is concerned it is his job, and he is dissappointed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stilleddiesangel View Post
    Word is, he is not happy about the situation and wanted to go. As far as he is concerned it is his job, and he is dissappointed.
    I can see his point. At the end of the day what was the point of all that training?

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk smithjc's Avatar
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    08.04.17 @ 11:33 PM
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    It's better to err on the side of caution tho. I'm not informed enough about the military and combat, but am surprised to learn that there is still intelligence involved.
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  7. #7
    Romeo Delight Schools's Avatar
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    07.21.08 @ 10:26 PM
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    I agree that it could have worked had they somehow been able to keep it under wraps. Prince Harry is just too much of a high payoff target for the insurgents or any other group that might want to make a name for itself. Think about the public spectacle the Iranians made of those British sailors and marines and multiply it a thousand times over if Harry were to be killed or captured by insurgents.

    Although Prince Andrew served in the Falklands War, that was a different time and a different enemy. The Argentines weren't the ruthless cold-blooded killers the insurgents are. A number of our congressmen either have or did have sons and nephews serving in Iraq, but they are of a far lower profile than Harry.
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  8. #8
    Good Enough vanzefflin's Avatar
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    10.26.17 @ 04:07 PM
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    If his being there puts other soldiers in harms way (and surely it would) then obviously, the best decision was made.

    There will always be those that think everything is politically motivated (see FORD for further research on this topic).
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by willy4pres View Post
    It sounded like the kid wanted to go and he's fully qualified to lead troops. If he's a good troop handler and willing to go I don't understand how anyone can stop him. I don't usually use the term "troop", I hate that term, but im not sure how else to say it in this thread.

    For the British military it was a lose lose situation. It sends a terrible message to not send him because of the danger, and at the same time if they send him and he's captured...well, we all know how that could be viewed (on both sides).

    My view on the whole thing, he should have gone. He seems like the real deal, he's a military guy (I know he technically has to do it considering his position), it's what they do.

    I have been out for over a year, im 34, recently married with a brand new three month old. I don't want to spend a second away from them, their all I think about. Having said that, I would do anything to get to Iraq, I feel like im supposed to be there and not going will be my greatest regret.
    Look at it this way, suppose the gods of war smiled upon you and you're on your way to Iraq. Your platoon leader is a LT. Bush, he's a nephew of our current President. As you board your plane there are 600 news cameras, when you de-plane in Kuwait there are 3000 new cameras and you find out that all six TV networks have a camera crew embedded with your unit. You then get to your FOB, the first security briefing you guys get is a video-taped death threat from AlQaeda's #2. Every day you get more death threats. Every day, when you pull out in your LAVs you know that the Iraqis have stored RPGs in buildings along every possible route and that they are watching whenever a patrol leaves the base (they do this anyway) and use cell phones to give the direction of the convoy or patroll.

    Sometimes LT Bush is with these convoys and sometimes he's not, the Iraqis and AQ don't know either, so they light up EVERY convoy and patrol that leaves the base.

    So how many of the guys in your company should die just so Lt Bush can serve his country?

    It's one thing when a Marine dies in the line of duty for a fellow Marine, they write books about that kind of thing. It's another thing when a Marine gets his buddies killed because he wanted to do things his way. Prince Harry will get his chance and I admire him for wanting to be a career Army Officer. The kid has a hard-on for the SAS and I hope they at least give him a shot. I just don't see why they should risk his men because they'll send everything after him, like they did against the Vice President in Afghanistan a few months back. A dozen Afghans died because the VP wanted to have a sleep over.
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  10. #10
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    07.27.07 @ 01:06 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    Look at it this way, suppose the gods of war smiled upon you and you're on your way to Iraq. Your platoon leader is a LT. Bush, he's a nephew of our current President. As you board your plane there are 600 news cameras, when you de-plane in Kuwait there are 3000 new cameras and you find out that all six TV networks have a camera crew embedded with your unit. You then get to your FOB, the first security briefing you guys get is a video-taped death threat from AlQaeda's #2. Every day you get more death threats. Every day, when you pull out in your LAVs you know that the Iraqis have stored RPGs in buildings along every possible route and that they are watching whenever a patrol leaves the base (they do this anyway) and use cell phones to give the direction of the convoy or patroll.

    Sometimes LT Bush is with these convoys and sometimes he's not, the Iraqis and AQ don't know either, so they light up EVERY convoy and patrol that leaves the base.

    So how many of the guys in your company should die just so Lt Bush can serve his country?

    It's one thing when a Marine dies in the line of duty for a fellow Marine, they write books about that kind of thing. It's another thing when a Marine gets his buddies killed because he wanted to do things his way. Prince Harry will get his chance and I admire him for wanting to be a career Army Officer. The kid has a hard-on for the SAS and I hope they at least give him a shot. I just don't see why they should risk his men because they'll send everything after him, like they did against the Vice President in Afghanistan a few months back. A dozen Afghans died because the VP wanted to have a sleep over.
    I understand what your saying Axx, and im not saying your wrong.

    But for us, when you serve you serve. You don't question why, you just serve. I wouldn't like having all that attention aimed at one of the people im serving with but that doesn't mean that other person shouldn't be there.

    Forgetting about the fact that him serving might jeopardize men in his command (their big boys with guns, and their already in jeopardy) why shouldn't he go? He did his time, got the t-shirt, and is willing and able to do the job. I would be honored to serve with the man and I would be right next to him on his first IED patrol. Part of me would know it's probably not the wisest idea ever but what the hell. And fuck them, we have guns, they have guns, were hear to fight, lets fight.

    If anything this is the exact reason why this is all going so badely. This wasn't a military decision at all, it's a war, people get hurt and killed. Making decisions in a war soley to keep men and women from getting hurt and killed seems backwards to me. Obviously you plan to minimize this but it's going to happen. I thought the point of all this was to kill lots of them while sacrificing less of us. This guy might be the next Chesty Puller for all we know, him putting his ass on the line could do wonders for his fellow English men and women. But now he's robbed of that oppurtunity because people who don't know shit are afraid it might go badely. Fuck, of course it might go badely, that just means you need highly trained and motivated individuals, just like Prince Harry.

    Considering his current profession where else should he be?

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    What I don't understand is why the Ministry of Defence was so public about it? It's not like their new PM is planning to extend the Brit's presence in Iraq. That's why I hope he ends up in the SAS, those guys know how to STFU. Granted, he's got a famous face but Harry's going to have figure out how to keep a low profile.

    I want to see him go down range along with everyone else and I hope the guy figures out a way to go.
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  12. #12
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    11.30.17 @ 06:15 PM
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    In short, I agree with it. Axx held many points I agree to.

    I wouldn't see him NOT going as preferential at all, even though I know that's probably the blue collar view of it. People would want equality, right? I'd say for the points mentioned above that it would be anything BUT fair to put him in that sitch. Same with his men. The scale can swing equally the opposite way.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk stilleddiesangel's Avatar
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    08.25.17 @ 05:45 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    What I don't understand is why the Ministry of Defence was so public about it? It's not like their new PM is planning to extend the Brit's presence in Iraq. That's why I hope he ends up in the SAS, those guys know how to STFU. Granted, he's got a famous face but Harry's going to have figure out how to keep a low profile.

    I want to see him go down range along with everyone else and I hope the guy figures out a way to go.
    If he went in the SAS, we really would never even know about it. None of the SAS lads identities are ever made public. And they really know how to shut the enemy TFU..
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  14. #14
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 12:17 AM
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    I agreee with what AXX and Seenbad said.
    Cheers to Harry for wanting to go.
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  15. #15
    Eruption arcticwolf64's Avatar
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    01.06.12 @ 12:23 AM
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    Bottom line is if the kid would have gone, it would have a been a PR nightmare for Buckingham Palace.

    A hypothetical scenario would more than likely involve the kidnapping of the Prince to begin with. Think about the publicity the rebels or other terrorist groups would get from a blindfolded Harry on videotape denouncing the occupation of Iraq. All the while the US and other forces are on a frantic search and rescue mission. This of course would be tracked by the opposition on CNN or others. The media frenzy this would create would allow the opposition to stay 1 step ahead of the search and rescue team. When I say rescue team I am speaking about Task Force Black, not your ordinary run of the mill troops. This group is made up of British SSR and JSG groups as well as US Delta and US Dev groups working together.

    The public outcry, particulary in the UK would horrific against a missing Prince, particulary 1 with no Mother. As I say a political and PR nightmare.
    Ultimatly Harry would join the ranks of Daniel Pearl once the opposition used him a bargaining tool, probably to no avail. This of course would be attempted to be kept from the media but not everyone can keep quiet.
    Accusations / Questions would arrise that not enough was done to protect the Prince. Answers would be provided that would only fire up the public more until it ended up as a Pat Tillman type inquest only much larger.

    Another aspect is how much danger would Harry put his fellow troops in being a high valued target, that would be imeasurable.

    So I agree that Harry not be sent.

    It's unfortunate the media was allowed to make it public that he wasa going from the get go, although I don't know that the UK could have kept a lid on it in any case.
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