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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Senate Sends Clear Message On Iraq To White House...

    ...back in 1998.

    Seems that leading Democrats had a different opinion on Iraq and the threat that it constituted.

    http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/...n-10-9-98.html


    Make sure you read all of the names at the bottom, at least one guy supported war with Iraq before he opposed it.

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    Good Enough Thai Boxer 9901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    ...back in 1998.

    Make sure you read all of the names at the bottom, at least one guy supported war with Iraq before he opposed it.
    Kerry is an idiot anyways so it doesnt really surprise me that he switched like that. Was there anyone else I missed?
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  3. #3
    Hot sauce on everything Red's Avatar
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    "Dick" Lugar. Imagine that.

  4. #4
    Romeo Delight Schools's Avatar
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    Counterproductive Party Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Boxer 9901 View Post
    Kerry is an idiot anyways so it doesnt really surprise me that he switched like that. Was there anyone else I missed?
    I think Senator Levin himself has since come out against the war. Senator Feinstein certainly has. Sens Landrieu, Bob Kerry and Inouye may have, but I'm not ceratain. Daschle would if he were still in the Senate. Johnson is currently convelescing, so he hasn't made any public pronouncements since he was stricken (I think he had an anuerysm, but I can't remember).

    Anyway, to get this back out of the finer detail, the overarching point is what drives me crazy about modern American politics. It seems like time and again politicians will take a position based on political considerations rather than the will of their constituents or an effort to exercise leadership based on their assessment of the situation. Just read the letter, who signed it and most tellingly the date at the top. President Clinton was in office in 1998. That is probably the primary reason why most of the Democrats on who signed the letter did so. One can make the case that the situation is different NOW, but how many of the same Senators (especially on the Democratic side of the aisle) who supported Operation Desert Fox and the bill that made regime change in Iraq law in the late 90s, took the exact opposite position in 2002 and 2003 after looking at the same set of facts simply because there was a Republican in the White House? It's all just party politics at its worst and it is not good for the country as a whole.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
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    The thing about a Republic is that we elect representatives to go to Washington for us, the idea is that we're supposed to elect a smart or reasonably smart person to do the job.

    The idea that they're supposed do "The Will of The People" is true, but only to a point. In this specific case, these Senators had sat through hundreds of briefings since 1992 from the Defense Department and the CIA, most of these briefings are classified so the "People" don't know all the information that they do. And that's the problem, "The People" don't sit through countless meetings and commissions, they do not have a staff that sits with lobbyists and counter-lobbyists. Nor do they have a staff that reads dozens of news papers, scans the internet and reads through complex financial, economic and environmental reports so that they can get a briefing on the dozens of issues that they might vote on that day.

    "The People" are lazy, they do not read the news paper(even the online version), they do not read hard-backed books on history or science and they cannot be bothered to vote in even the Presidential Elections that come every four years. So you have to forgiv the will of Senators for ignoring the will of the people because too often the People don't know what they're talking about.
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  6. #6
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    07.27.07 @ 01:06 PM
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    I think the sad part is that most of America doesn't bother or care how hypocritical these people are. If somebody wants to be a flip-flopping asshole then fine, I could really care less. But the fact that so many people (nutty Democrats and nutty Republicans combined) pretend otherwise. There all a bunch of bullshiters and I hate that so many bright people play along with it.

    I voted against Bush because I knew he was going to take the election. I actually like the guys aggresive stance towards countries that wish to lessen our global influence, and I also dont think he's stupid. I voted against him because the pastor in my church, my Mother's church, my sisters church (etc...) were attempting to influence it's members into voting Republican (and trust me, they succeeded). Some how they got it into their heads that Bush and his buddies are real Christians. No their not, those people would pretend to be Hindus (sp?) if it could get them enough votes to stay in office. I know that Hollywood really tried to convince us all that Kerry was the way to go, it's not any different then what the religious right was trying to do. My vote against Bush was my little FU to this bullshit system we all have created. If I could have voted for my own ball sack I would have done that instead.

    These politicians can pretend to be whatever they want to be, I just hate that so many people buy into it. None of them are really THAT stupid, none of them are evil, none of that shit that gets reported on TV is true. Their just a bunch of men that want to have power, and they will do and say anything to get it and or keep it.
    Last edited by willy4pres; 04.23.07 at 03:37 PM.

  7. #7
    Good Enough Nickdfresh's Avatar
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    11.27.17 @ 11:27 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    ...back in 1998.

    Seems that leading Democrats had a different opinion on Iraq and the threat that it constituted.

    http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/...n-10-9-98.html


    Make sure you read all of the names at the bottom, at least one guy supported war with Iraq before he opposed it.

    Senators are funny.
    Tell me all about it...

    President wants Senate to hurry with new anti-terrorism laws
    July 30, 1996
    Web posted at: 8:40 p.m. EDT

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Clinton urged Congress Tuesday to act swiftly in developing anti-terrorism legislation before its August recess.
    "We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue," Clinton said during a White House news conference.

    But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed anti-terrorism measures.
    lott

    Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, R-Mississippi, doubted that the Senate would rush to action before they recess this weekend. The Senate needs to study all the options, he said, and trying to get it done in the next three days would be tough.

    One key GOP senator was more critical, calling a proposed study of chemical markers in explosives "a phony issue."
    Taggants value disputed

    Clinton said he knew there was Republican opposition to his proposal on explosive taggants, but it should not be allowed to block the provisions on which both parties agree.

    "What I urge them to do is to be explicit about their disagreement, but don't let it overcome the areas of agreement," he said.

    The president emphasized coming to terms on specific areas of disagreement would help move the legislation along. The president stressed it's important to get the legislation out before the weekend's recess, especially following the bombing of Centennial Olympic Park and the crash of TWA Flight 800.

    "The most important thing right now is that they get the best, strongest bill they can out -- that they give us as much help as they can," he said.
    Hatch blasts 'phony' issues

    Republican leaders earlier met with White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta for about an hour in response to the president's call for "the very best ideas" for fighting terrorism.

    Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, "These are very controversial provisions that the White House wants. Some they're not going to get."

    Hatch called Clinton's proposed study of taggants -- chemical markers in explosives that could help track terrorists -- "a phony issue."

    "If they want to, they can study the thing" already, Hatch asserted. He also said he had some problems with the president's proposals to expand wiretapping.

    Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota, said it is a mistake if Congress leaves town without addressing anti-terrorism legislation. Daschle is expected to hold a special meeting on the matter Wednesday with Congressional leaders.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.
    Originally posted by Katydid

    Because I realize you all (the Roth Army) are a bunch of twisted, demented, beastility, porn loving, drug addicts and alcoholics and psycopaths. I guess Devil worshippers more aptly describe you.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    Good one Nick
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
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    http://www.cnn.com/US/9603/terrorism_bill/13/

    Anti-terrorism bill gutted in House
    March 13, 1996
    Web posted at: 10:50 p.m. EST

    From Correspondent Jeanne Meserve

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The first anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing is next month, and Congress has yet to enact anti-terrorism legislation urgently proposed by the president. The House Wednesday voted to amend the bill to take out some of the it's toughest and most controversial provisions.

    The House of Representatives ripped the guts out of pending anti-terrorism legislation with a single vote Wednesday. Passing 246-171, the amendment deletes provisions which would:

    Allow the government to label certain groups as "terrorist."

    Streamline the deportation of terrorists.

    Allow the use of wiretap evidence obtained without a warrant.

    Permit disclosure of certain consumer reports to the FBI.

    "We have just eviscerated the heart and soul of the anti-terrorist bill," Rep. John Conyers, D Michigan, said from the House floor.

    The amendment was backed by an unusual alliance of groups on the right and left who felt the original bill gave the federal government too much power.

    "What price are we willing to pay in terms of our individual rights and freedoms? What price are we willing to pay as citizens of this country?" Rep. Melvin Watt, D-North Carolina, said from the floor.

    Adoption of the amendment could hardly have come at a more embarrassing time for President Clinton, who was co-hosting an international anti-terrorism summit in Egypt Wednesday.


    Attorney General Janet Reno criticized the changes to the bill. "Congress' action keeps too many Americans vulnerable to terrorists and madmen by stripping away provisions that might have helped save law enforcement from killer bullets and help trace explosives."

    The anti-terrorism legislation was introduced at the president's urging in the aftermath of the April 19 Oklahoma City bombing, which killed 168 men, women, and children.

    Bit some anti-terrorism experts said that before the legislation was amended, it wouldn't have done much to combat terrorism.

    "It is, at best, a Christmas tree. A Christmas tree is designed to do what? It was designed to reassure the American public that the government is doing something," said terrorism expert Larry Johnson.

    Last June, the Senate passed anti-terrorism legislation that included many of the provisions deleted by the House. The White House will be lobbying to have those measures re-inserted when congressional conferences produce a final version of the legislation.
    Last edited by Axxman300; 04.23.07 at 06:33 PM.
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  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    The irony is that the Democrats are now poised to do the exact same thing again.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    The bill was H.R.3953

    You can read the whole thing here:

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/.../~c104xRn7OR::

    Bottom line:

    There were some good ideas in the bill. The only ones that might have made a difference on September 11th, 2001, were the Passenger Profiling and the FBI warrentless Wire-Taps (which would have been thrown out by the Supreme Court long before 9/11).

    The fact s that this bill does nothing to top 19 hijackers from gettinng on those planes.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    I see Larry Johnson in that article. I'd be willing to bet that he wouldn't be making those same comments now. At that time, he was a "company" man, that "company" being Poppy's CIA. He was even spewing the party line up until at least 2002 as a "FAUX news analyst", probably still on the Langley payroll.

    After the betrayal of Valerie Plame - who was in Johnson's CIA academy graduating class - and her "Brewster Jennings" and the lies leading up to the Iraq invasion, Johnson abandoned team BCE. His opinions of them today are probably about the same as mine. And he probably knows more of their secrets than I do.
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  13. #13
    Hot sauce on everything Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    After the betrayal of Valerie Plame

    She wasn't betrayed, she was pimped by her husband.

    The Valerie Plame Situation was and is much ado about nothing, and is merely a weak attempt to "get" Karl Rove and our twice fairly elected President.

    Having our House Speaker running around playing world diplomat and attempting to broker deals that exist only in her imagination is a much bigger scandal in American politics, IMO.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    She wasn't betrayed, she was pimped by her husband.

    The Valerie Plame Situation was and is much ado about nothing, and is merely a weak attempt to "get" Karl Rove and our twice fairly elected President.

    Having our House Speaker running around playing world diplomat and attempting to broker deals that exist only in her imagination is a much bigger scandal in American politics, IMO.
    God, what is it with North Carolina? Do you guys only get FAUX news and radio down there, or what??

    Valerie Plame's CIA false front company "Brewster Jennings" was posing as an energy company in the middle east for the purpose of tracking the proliferation of WMD's. By the time Rove and Cheney "outed" them (a felony thanks to a law signed by none other than George Bush Sr.) they had already established there were no such weapons in Iraq, and were about to find out the same in Iran.

    In other words, the CIA was about to blow the entire PNAC construction of the "Axis of Evil" out of the water.

    And Team BCE couldn't let that happen.

    As for Nancy Pelosi meeting with foreign leaders (because Condi would rather go shoe shopping in Manhattan) did you complain when Gingrich did the same thing in the 1990's?
    Eat Us And Smile

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  15. #15
    Hot sauce on everything Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    As for Nancy Pelosi meeting with foreign leaders (because Condi would rather go shoe shopping in Manhattan) did you complain when Gingrich did the same thing in the 1990's?
    Hell no, Gingrich was intellectually qualified. Gingrich in '08.

    Nice job with the opening insult, Howard Dean gives you a thumbs up for following the playbook.

    I don't watch Fox News, nor am I a student at the Limbaugh Institute For Advanced Conservative Studies, but I can use their proper names in a discussion.

    Hahaha....jeez, I let myself get sucked into a political thread again.

    Whatever.....it all comes down to "whatever", really.

 

 

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