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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Default Why Payshuntz With Iran Is Smart, Lookie What Happened

    Okay, for some reason, everyone has wanted to take the bait Iran has been chumming over the last year and a half. Every other week some freaked-out linker posts a story about Iran that is usually full of speculation about what Iran MIGHT DO. These thread then are filled with the usual stuff about how we should nuke them and how Bush should have focused on Iran instead of Iraq. I try to step in an shoot this crap down because...it's crap Worse still are the threads, usually out of the UK, about the US or Israel planning a strike against Iran's nuclear program. As always, these stories are floated by some British think-tank dude who: a. Is making it up and b. hates Jews. While I'm not privy to the secrets of the Israeli defense ministry or current US Pentagon plans, I can tell you this is crap for one simple reason: Neither the US nor Israel possess weaponry that can take out the Iranian nuclear facilities, which are far too deep underground for even our "Bunker-Busters" to reach. This true even if they had nuclear warheads.

    The irony here is that President Bush has handled Iran the right way, he's been firm but his administration hasn't taken the bait like they did in Iraq. His handling of Iran has been smart. Lost in all of the hype has been the voice of the Iranian people, who think Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is their George W Bush. He got his ass kicked in a recent election in that country, just like Bush did and then a big developememt went down yesterday that none of you saw on the evening news:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/19/wo...gewanted=print

    January 19, 2007
    Rebuke in Iran to Its President on Nuclear Role
    By NAZILA FATHI and MICHAEL SLACKMAN
    TEHRAN, Jan. 18 — Iran’s outspoken president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, appears to be under pressure from the highest authorities in Iran to end his involvement in its nuclear program, a sign that his political capital is declining as his country comes under increasing international pressure.
    Just one month after the United Nations Security Council imposed sanctions on Iran to curb its nuclear program, two hard-line newspapers, including one owned by the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, called on the president to stay out of all matters nuclear.
    In the hazy world of Iranian politics, such a public rebuke was seen as a sign that the supreme leader — who has final say on all matters of state — might no longer support the president as the public face of defiance to the West.
    It is the first sign that Mr. Ahmadinejad has lost any degree of Ayatollah Khamenei’s confidence, a potentially damaging development for a president who has rallied his nation and defined his administration by declaring nuclear power Iran’s “inalienable right.”
    It was unclear, however, whether this was merely an effort to improve Iran’s public image by lowering Mr. Ahmadinejad’s profile or was signaling a change in policy.
    The presidency is a relatively weak position with no official authority over foreign policy, the domain of the supreme leader. But Mr. Ahmadinejad has used his post as a bully pulpit to insert himself into the nuclear debate, and as long as he appeared to enjoy Ayatollah Khamenei’s support, he could continue.
    While Iran remains publicly defiant, insisting that it will move ahead with its nuclear ambitions, it is under increasing strain as political and economic pressures grow. And the message that Iran’s most senior officials seem to be sending is that Mr. Ahmadinejad, with his harsh approach and caustic comments, is undermining Iran’s cause and its standing.
    The Security Council passed a resolution on Dec. 23 with sanctions intended to curb Iran’s uranium enrichment program, which Iran says is for peaceful purposes but the United States and some European nations contend is for the purpose of creating nuclear weapons. The measure bars the trade of goods or technology related to Iran’s nuclear program. Enriched uranium can be used for making nuclear fuel but also for making nuclear weapons.
    The president dismissed the Security Council resolution as “a piece of torn paper.”
    But the daily Jomhouri-Eslami, which reflects the views of Ayatollah Khamenei, said, “The resolution is certainly harmful for the country,” adding that it was “too much to call it ‘a piece of torn paper.’ ”
    The newspaper added that the nuclear program required its own diplomacy, “sometimes toughness and sometimes flexibility.”
    In another sign of pressure on the president to distance himself from the nuclear issue, a second newspaper, run by an aide to the country’s chief nuclear negotiator, Ali Larijani, also pressed Mr. Ahmadinejad to end his involvement in the nuclear program. Mr. Larijani also ran for president and was selected for his post by the supreme leader.
    “They want to minimize the consequences of sanctions now that they have been imposed,” said Mohammad Atrianfar, an executive at the daily Shargh, which was closed last fall, and a reformist politician. “But they don’t have clear strategy, and they are taking one step at a time.”
    Mr. Ahmadinejad took office more than a year ago as an outsider, the mayor of Tehran who promised to challenge the status quo, to equally distribute Iran’s oil wealth and to restore what he saw as the lost values of the Islamic revolution. His was a populist message, centered on a socialist economic model and Islamic values. He found opposition from the right and the left, in Parliament and among so-called pragmatists.
    That pressure has continued, and the criticism now seems to have gained more credibility in the face of the sanctions and Iran’s troubled economic standing. The United States increased pressure on Iran over its role in Iraq has also raised concerns in Tehran and may be behind efforts to restrain the president, political analysts in Tehran said.
    “The resolution has decreased Iran’s political credibility in the international community, and so other countries cannot defend Iran,” said Ahmad Shirzad, a reformist politician and a former legislator.
    Although the Security Council sanctions were limited to Iran’s nuclear program, they have started to cause economic disruptions.
    About 50 legislators signed a letter this week calling on the president to appear before Parliament to answer questions about the nuclear program. They need at least 22 more signatures.
    In another letter, 150 lawmakers criticized the president for his economic policies, which have led to a surge in inflation, and for his failure to submit his annual budget on time.
    The Iranian stock market, which was already in a slump, continued to decline — falling more rapidly in the past month — as buyers stayed away from the market. The daily Kargozaran reported last week that the number of traders had decreased by 46 percent since the Security Council resolution was passed.
    “The resolution has had a psychological effect on people,” said Ali Hagh, an economist in Tehran. “It does not make sense for investors not to consider political events when they want to invest their money.”
    Kargozaran reported that a group of powerful businessmen, the Islamic Coalition Party, met with Mohammad Nahavandian, a senior official at the Supreme National Security Council, and called for moderation in the country’s nuclear policies to prevent further damage to the economy.
    In the past year, several major European banks have severed their business ties with Iran. Economists say the banks’ actions will also lead to an increase in inflation because importers must turn to complicated ways to finance purchases.
    “The nuclear issue has paved the way for other forms of pressures on Iran,” Mr. Shirzad said.
    Despite Mr. Ahmadinejad’s harsh language since the resolution was passed, Ayatollah Khamenei has not referred to it directly and only once said that Iran would not give up its right to pursue its nuclear program.
    Mr. Larijani has said that Iran will not quit the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty or bar international inspectors despite earlier threats to do so.
    Nazila Fathi reported from Tehran, and Michael Slackman from Cairo.
    Last edited by seenbad; 01.19.07 at 09:03 PM.
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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    06.14.17 @ 06:46 PM
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    Good read, but I was expecting this thread to be about the health care system in Iran.

  3. #3
    Good Enough wham bam will rock's Avatar
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    06.26.17 @ 04:51 PM
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    I'm not saying that they're going to open up Starbucks and KFC in Tehran next week. I'm just pointing out that the reason this is happening is that we've kept our cool while their leader has dug his own grave.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  5. #5
    Sinner's Swing!
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    12.14.17 @ 08:00 PM
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    Great stuff, Axxman.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    Supports what I've said all along.... the best way to bring Iran into the 21st century is to leave them the fuck alone and let them do it.
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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    ...Patience.. Duurh.....

    I gotta start writing my responses in Word so I'z can looks more smarter..
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Thank you for fixing my thread. What was it like going to school with Kevin Federline?
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  9. #9
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High perticelli's Avatar
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    11.30.15 @ 02:22 PM
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    Let's consider an additional question:

    If you were the Ayatollah, what would u rather give up..Nuclear ambitions in the public eye or terrorism, through all their channels?

    Im curious to see the thoughts of those in here...
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    If I'm the Ayatollah, I've got the majority of the Muslem minority to think about. I know that you can get more flies with Honey than Vinegar. It's my mission to spread Shiite Islam throughout the Mulsem world. I'm going to expand on the Hezbollah, my Lebanese satellite, that spreads the word through public works and not just terror. Hezbollah is popular because they've bought into a socialist model, building schools, providing free medical care and leading the way in almost every aspect of civic infrastructure.

    If I'm the Ayatollah I know that a war with the west will end in my defeat and I know that it will involve nuclear warheads. This means that the largest population of Shi'a become extinct. For all my talk of martyrdom and paradise, I know that if I get my people killed I will never go to heaven and I will have failed my flock, people and my country.

    I'm not going to bow down to the United States either, but I'm not going to stand on the railroad tracks and try to stop a speeding freight train with my faith and my outstretched hands.

    I'm going to bide my time with my nuclear program, if my goal is to produce weapons for defense only, then I'm going to keep quiet and I'm sure as hell not going to be threatening the west or Israel with them.

    Beyond that, I can't get inside of his head. He's big on saying "If it's God's will" when he's asked about changes in Iran. There are a number 20 somethings in Iran who want the country to go into a different direction. Again, not specifically pro-west or pro-US but they want the Revolutionary government to lighten up.

    What you guys have to understand is that the Iranian Revolution of 1979 was the equivalent of the Chicago Five siezing control of the US government. The exact same things would have followed in the name of the "Revolution". The Revolutionary Guard were inchanted by the American anti-war movement, but they didn't understand it. Because of their Europian education, they failed to learn that while the Vietnam war was not popular with the average American, the anti-war protesters were far less popular. The proof is in the election of Richard Nixon in 1968 and then his re-election - BY A LANDSLIDE - in 1972. Seven years later, when they overran the US embassy and took the Americans hostage they thought that Americans would be SYMPATHETIC to them and their cause, after all, didn't they share the same agenda with the Anti-War Democrats? (technically yes). Instead, they found that the Average American would be happy to see Tehran vanish beneath a mushroom cloud. The hostage crisis lead to a victory by Ronald Reagan, who rebuilt the US military. Reagan had George HW Bush as his Vice President, who later became the President and presided over Desert Storm. And this all lead to where we are today and why we feel the way we do about the middle east and specifically Iran.

    If I'm the Ayatollah, maybe I've figured out that I was part of an organization that went too far back in 1979 by siezing the American Embassy, an act that re-tooled the United States military and then gave it a will to destroy Islamic targets without question. Maybe I know that it's stupid to keep challenging the US even though this could lead to our distruction. Maybe I shut up and let the US do my work in Iraq for me.
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  13. #13
    Hang 'Em High perticelli's Avatar
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    11.30.15 @ 02:22 PM
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    Excellent Ax, very interesting remarks.

    Let me follow up. IF the Ayatollah is smart enough to not push us into a military conflict, which i think he is, and Americans knowing that Iran is the largest exporter of terrorism, do you think Iran is then safe from the US going in anyway?
    -I dont mean today or next week, but within the frame of the larger war on terrorism, which will obviously extend into the next presidency...
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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    America was friends with Iran longer then it has been an enemy.

    Iran's terrorist activities since 1979 have been theater-specific, focused on Iran's Shi'a ambitions and political objectives. They have hit targets in Europe and South America, they can be dangerous if they want to. Yet they've kept things simple and predictable. If they can come to an accord with the US and Europe, I think that they'd be happy to drop terrorism from their tool bag. The biggest change has been the EU and the new power of the Euro, Iran is missing out big-time on tons of cash because of their assholien foriegn policies and acts of terror and mischief.

    See, they're watching Lybia and Col. Ghadaffi, who renounced terrorism and allowed the US and the UN to come into his country and dismantle his nuke program and WMDs. To paraphrase the Wu Tang Clan, now the bitch is gettin' PAYYYED! The good Colonel has gone from public enemy #1 to the Brad Pitt/JFK Jr of the former despot set. He's signing zillion dollar contracts with the EU and he's selling and buying stuff left and right and nobody's pointing nuclear weapons at him or his people any more. Then they saw Saddam hang. No matter how much the western media tried to trivialize it, Saddam's death sent a shock wave through the dictator ass-clowns of the world. Plus, in spite of what the nightly news is telling you, things are going bad for insurgents, who are dying by the truck load every day. Sometime last Summer, US forces got a handle on many insurgent groups and while they still strike out they are doing so on the run. The civil war in Iraq doesn't help Iran either, in spite of what the "Experts" say.

    So, in short, yes I think Iran would give up terror if we make nice with them.
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  15. #15
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Supports what I've said all along.... the best way to bring Iran into the 21st century is to leave them the fuck alone and let them do it.
    No kidding!
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