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  1. #1
    Banned! Apocalypso's Avatar
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    Default Everything Hinges on RnRHoF Induction

    This is the current word regarding any Roth/Van Halen reunion tour from my source. Take it or leave it for what it's worth:

    The preliminary talks about a reunion tour are based around the band petitioning behind the scenes for a Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame induction in '07. Word is, the band feel (rightfully so) that they should be in and are pushing hard to get on the ballot for next year and indeed are in preliminary talks between Roth and the VH brothers to mount an arena tour very similar to the '04 tour in size and scope of North America in '07 to capitolize on an '07 induction.

    As it's fairly common knowledge, getting on the ballot and even being inducted isn't so much a "democratic" process as a highly coordinated PR event between the HoF and the inductee. Sure, some critical favorites like Springsteen, U2 and other less high profile artists like Elvis Costello get in the second they're eligible but a band like Van Halen has not had a lot of support of the stuffed shirts and voters running the HoF mostly for stupid political and personal reasons (founders Jan Wenner and Dave Marsh both dislike VH). However, because the ceremonies are motivated as much by ticket sales to the annual dinners and broadcast worth depending on the "big names" involved, mutually beneficial deals are usually worked out so artists the HoF may (want to) pass or have passed over can be inducted to coincide with the artist' reunion tour or whatever.

    This actually gives Michael Anthony a bit of leverage as far as being a part of a reunion tour in '07 seeing as it will be the classic lineup that would be inducted and my understanding is that he *will* be involved although as everyone can guess, not as an equal as far as pay.

    Thus, it appears likely the band will at least be nominated for the HoF next month. If this happens and it appears likely they'll get in in '07, you can expect the tour to move forward to start around late March.

    Also, as far as any cds or other mechandise to coincide with such a tour, Warner Bros *may* re-release the 6 Roth era albums with the promo videos included much like Iron maiden did in the mid 90's with one of their album remastering series. Thus, say VH2 would have the 3 live videos, Diver Down would have the "Pretty Woman" studio video, 1984 would have the 3 promo videos, and so on. The other option is a new dvd with all the Roth era promo videos including "Loss Of Control" and so on, but nothing that even casual collectors haven't seen before.

    The big problem at this point in time is, Warner Bros really can't release anything "new" like a Fair Warning tour concert dvd, a box set of demos, etc or basically anything that hasn't been released or at least broadcast in some form in the past due to the terms of VH's contract with them and since Van Halen is no longer a WB artist, both parties are kind of stuck with what they've done officially in the past as far as any new product. And the band can't go to some other label to release a classic era concert or rarities either due to those contract terms with WB.

    Look for the HoF nominations to be announced in the next month or so to point towards this tour happening or not.

    T.B.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    They'd have to organize a summer shed tour far in advance of the induction ceremony in March.

    It's a bit self gratuitous for a band to lobby itself for a RRHOF induction. Patting themselves on the back seems out of character, even for Cubic Z and Looney T. And I doubt Sam and Mike have anything to do with 'lobbying' these RRHOF people.

  3. #3
    Banned! Apocalypso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    They'd have to organize a summer shed tour far in advance of the induction ceremony in March.

    It's a bit self gratuitous for a band to lobby itself for a RRHOF induction. Patting themselves on the back seems out of character, even for Cubic Z and Looney T. And I doubt Sam and Mike have anything to do with 'lobbying' these RRHOF people.
    You'd be surprised who some of the bands are that got in when they did because the timing coincided with a tour and album release. You'd also be surprised at how many bands and artists place such an importance of being in the HoF because of the prestige of being associated with tehir peers who are already in. I think it's a joke personally, but being inducted carries a lot of weight in the industry.

    Roth has been on record as saying he thinks they should have been inducted the moment they were elibible. Eddie feels the same way although he obviously hasn't been vocal about it like Dave has. And Alex clearly has always thought of Van Halen as being the American Led Zeppelin. All it takes for any of these guys to get the wheels in motion is to have their agents start dogging the Hall committee and make their induction as enticing as possible with a (in VH's case) reunion and high profile tour, a live appearance at the ceremony and fuckwits like Dave Marsh and Jan Wenner suddenly overcome their personal bias against the band and they're in. And yeah, Hagar and Mike don't have anything to do with it because in Hagar's situation, he's not going to be inducted with the band and Mike, simply because he both doesn't have any pull or connections in the industry and more importantly, probably doesn't care on a public level the way Roth and the brothers likely seem to.

    Timing is also very important. In '07, I don't think too many big name, top drawing acts are elegible (REM?) so it's in the interest of the HoF to have someone a lot of fans would want to see perform and Van Halen with Roth would be a huge draw. The past few years, bands like U2, Prince, Aerosmith, AC/DC and a few others have been big enough that Roth/Van Halen could be ignored but I think at this point, a band of VH's statue is need for the HoF in '07 and also, I think there's a real sense the clock is ticking on these guys.

    Like I said before, it isn't as simple as a bunch of rock critics getting together and tossing out elegible names and then voting on them every year. It's a highly coordinated annual PR event that usually is mutually beneficial to both the HoF and the inducted artist.

    T.B.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypso View Post
    Like I said before, it isn't as simple as a bunch of rock critics getting together and tossing out elegible names and then voting on them every year. It's a highly coordinated annual PR event that usually is mutually beneficial to both the HoF and the inducted artist.

    T.B.
    Which is why the Sex Pistols probably responded in only true blue rock and roll fashion when they were invited.

    Fuck the establishment. Break all rules. Anarchy in the U fuckin' K.

    The Hall is a joke if it's simply a coordination of PR and $. If it's less about the honorariums and more about exposure both for the artists and the institution...well, that's just a mockery of what music's all about, ain't it.


    Wait...it's all about the music. Right. I keep forgetting.

  5. #5
    Banned! Apocalypso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    Which is why the Sex Pistols probably responded in only true blue rock and roll fashion when they were invited.

    Fuck the establishment. Break all rules. Anarchy in the U fuckin' K.

    The Hall is a joke if it's simply a coordination of PR and $. If it's less about the honorariums and more about exposure both for the artists and the institution...well, that's just a mockery of what music's all about, ain't it.


    Wait...it's all about the music. Right. I keep forgetting.
    Yeah, in the Pistol's case, it was more people in the HoF wanted them in (ever though they had been elegible for years) versus Lyndon wanting anything to do with the process. In theory, The Damned should be in as well as they were just as important in the developement of punk in the UK but they were never the outrageous newsmakers the Pistols were. Similar inductee backfires include the Creedence Clearwater Revival induction who were a favorite of Marsh, Wenner and everyone else, yet John Fogerty refused to acknoledge the others in the band leading to a fairly unpleasent induction ceremony. The Led Zeppelin induction with Plant and Page almost ignoring John Paul Jones was another good example.

    Still, even stuff like this is just PR for the Hall. If Eddie and Dave went to blows at the podium, that show would be the highest rated broadcast of the event in it's history. It all proves the axiom that even when the headlines are bad, there's really no such thing as bad press.

    T.B.

  6. #6
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:09 AM
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    so Sammy would not be involved at all? I guess having a 2nd ceremony in 2011 (25 yrs after 5150) would not happen either. So the Sammy era will be ignored basically. That sucks. I'm sure a lot of Dave or Gravers will be happy about that. Think about it- the band will be immortalized in many peoples' eyes as Dave, Eddie, Alex, and Mike from 1978-1984 and that's it.

    as far as the rights/contracts with the band and WB about releasing concerts cds/dvds- that can't possibly be the end of that discussion. They can always re-negotiate or make a new deal, if they really want to. The question is, do they want to go through all that?

  7. #7
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 11:10 AM
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    They'll all get in, I don't care how much people want to argue Sammy won't be there, or whatever "insider" info they have. I am pretty sure that Ed and Al are very proud of their work with Sammy and wouldn't accept going in without that era of the band included. It's so not a question, I don't care what any "insider" says, it's a no-brainer. 1986 is not the first VH album, 1978 is...the name Van Halen carried on after Dave left.
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  8. #8
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:09 AM
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    I hope you're right

  9. #9
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    It'll just be another in the long line of times Van Halen fans just stand their scratching their heads. Nothing these guys do makes any sense. What will probably happen is Sammy won't be there, but Gary will.
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  10. #10
    Banned! Apocalypso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZORBA5150 View Post
    so Sammy would not be involved at all? I guess having a 2nd ceremony in 2011 (25 yrs after 5150) would not happen either. So the Sammy era will be ignored basically. That sucks. I'm sure a lot of Dave or Gravers will be happy about that. Think about it- the band will be immortalized in many peoples' eyes as Dave, Eddie, Alex, and Mike from 1978-1984 and that's it.

    as far as the rights/contracts with the band and WB about releasing concerts cds/dvds- that can't possibly be the end of that discussion. They can always re-negotiate or make a new deal, if they really want to. The question is, do they want to go through all that?
    Regarding the Hagar/HoF issue, I'm just speculating on my own here, but my impression is that if Sammy were to be involved in any induction ceremony, it's up to the others, meaning Eddie, Alex, Dave and Mike. I think you can draw your own conclusions as to a 3 to 1 vote (if Mike is even allowed to "vote" or participate for that matter) among the band who'd delight in sticking it to Sammy again seeing as Hagar's the "bad" guy this week especially in Eddie's opinion. And you know Roth isn't going to share a podium with his "replacement" if has any say about it.

    As for the Warner Bros / Van Halen negotiating any new one time cd/dvd release contract, it's been something that for several years has been at a stalemate between WB and Eddie and Alex. Warner Bros would dearly love to release some sort of box set or anything "new" from the old lineups but they need the band's ok to do it and because so much has changed regarding royalties between the band members and disputes in creative control and financial compensation, working anything out has supposedly been momumentally difficult and thus far, impossible to resolve. And Eddie can't just take the old demos, rarities and live stuff from their time on Warner Bros to another label and release it due to the terms of the old WB contract.

    And than there's the story that much of the live footage from the Roth era has long since deteriorated past the point of no return due to being poorly stored and archived over the years.

    T.B.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk Eddymon's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 10:28 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    1986 is not the first VH album, 1978 is...the name Van Halen carried on after Dave left.
    Just like it will if Mike's not involved in the 2007 rumored plans.
    'Old Van Halen, when I was in it-classic Van Halen-makes you wanna drink, dance and screw, right? And the new Van Halen encourages you to drink milk, drive a Nissan and have a relationship.' - David Lee Roth.

  12. #12
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    To you, not to me Mr. Back and Forth. And a good chance not to this site.
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  13. #13
    Banned! Apocalypso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    They'll all get in, I don't care how much people want to argue Sammy won't be there, or whatever "insider" info they have. I am pretty sure that Ed and Al are very proud of their work with Sammy and wouldn't accept going in without that era of the band included. It's so not a question, I don't care what any "insider" says, it's a no-brainer. 1986 is not the first VH album, 1978 is...the name Van Halen carried on after Dave left.
    It's pretty much up to the band or artist getting inducted who is included and who if anyone, is not. Like I mentioned before, just look at the CCR/John Fogerty induction to see how far that issue can be taken.

    And you know as well as anyone that Eddie and to a lesser extent Alex has proven to be particularly vindictive and petty towards whoever is the "bag guy" at the moment. It wouldn't even shock me if they excluded Mike from the ceremony, reprehensible as it would be. Couple that with Dave's attitude that his version of the band is the only one that matters and I'd say the odds are greatly stacked against Sammy at least being up there at the podium if and when they are inducted.

    And than there's Gary Cherone. If Hagar's included, why not Gary?

    It would be a huge step towards healing the long standing rift between everyone at least as far as the public's concerned if the six guys stood up there together for the induction even if they didn't play together (which would be pretty impressive). But that's ultimately up to Eddie and who knows what his opinion will be right up to the night they're inducted.

    From what I heard though, as of now Eddie or someone speaking for him doesn't want Sammy involved.

    T.B.

  14. #14
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Well then Ed's a crackpot.
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  15. #15
    Atomic Punk Eddymon's Avatar
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    All 6 of them should be up there on stage together for the induction/jam.

    They should all be able to as grown men to shake hands and have fun.
    Let Sam play the accoustic part on Ice Cream Man.

    Then let the original VH go on tour and remind of us of what it was like back then to a degree. I'm not expecting 1984 all over again, but I have an idea of what to expect and I'd be very content with that.
    'Old Van Halen, when I was in it-classic Van Halen-makes you wanna drink, dance and screw, right? And the new Van Halen encourages you to drink milk, drive a Nissan and have a relationship.' - David Lee Roth.

 

 

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