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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Global Islamic Rioting; Part 2

    Religious Leaders Across Mideast Rage Against Pope's Comments on Islam

    ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey's ruling Islamic-rooted party joined a wave of criticism of Pope Benedict XVI on Friday, accusing him of trying to revive the spirit of the Crusades with remarks he made about the Muslim faith.

    Muslim leaders elsewhere in the world also expressed dismay, with Pakistan's parliament unanimously condemning the pope.

    The Vatican said the pope did not intend the remarks — made in Germany on Tuesday during an address at a university — to be offensive.

    Benedict quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

    "The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."'

    Benedict did not explicitly agree with the statement nor repudiate it.

    The comments raised tensions ahead of his planned visit to Turkey in November — his first pilgrimage to a Muslim country.

    Salih Kapusuz, a deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's party, said Benedict's remarks were either "the result of pitiful ignorance" about Islam and its prophet, or a deliberate distortion.

    "He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world," Kapusuz was quoted as saying by the state-owned Anatolia news agency. "It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades."

    "Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history for his words," he said. "He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as (Adolf) Hitler and (Benito) Mussolini."

    Turkey's staunchly secular opposition party also demanded that Benedict apologize to Muslims before his visit to Turkey.

    "The pope has thrown gasoline onto the fire ... in a world where the risk of a clash between religions is high," said Haluk Koc, deputy head of the Republican People's Party, as a small group of protesters left a black wreath in front of the Vatican's embassy in Ankara.

    On Thursday, Turkey's top Islamic cleric, Ali Bardakoglu, asked Benedict to apologize for the remarks and unleashed a string of accusations against Christianity.

    In Beirut, Lebanon's most senior Shiite Muslim cleric denounced the remarks Friday and demanded the pope personally apologize for insulting Islam.

    "We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology — not through his officials — to Muslims for this false reading (of Islam)," Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah told worshippers in his Friday prayers sermon.

    After Benedict returned to Italy on Thursday, Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said, "It certainly wasn't the intention of the pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and on Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers."

    Lombardi insisted the pope respects Islam. Benedict wants to "cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward the other religions and cultures, obviously also toward Islam," he said.

    In a significant development Friday, the pope appointed Archbishop Dominique Mamberti, a French prelate with experience in the Muslim world, as the Vatican's new foreign minister.

    But anger still swept across the Muslim world, with Pakistan's parliament unanimously adopting a resolution condemning the pope for making what it called "derogatory" comments about Islam, and seeking an apology from him.

    "Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.

    "What he has done is that he has quoted very offensive remarks by some emperor hundreds of years ago," she added. "It is not helpful (because) we have been trying to bridge the gap, calling for dialogue and understanding between religions."

    Aslam said Muslims had a long history of tolerance, adding that when the Catholic kingdom of Spain expelled its Jewish population in 1492 they were welcomed by Muslim nations such as the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

    Indonesia, which has more Muslims than any other in the world, had no immediate response to the pope's comments, but religious groups were quick to protest, condemning the words as insensitive and damaging.

    "A respected religious leader like the pope should not say such things, especially as nations across the globe are struggling to find ways to bridge differences between faiths and build understanding," said Ma'ruf Amin, a member of Indonesia Council of Clerics, the country's highest Islamic body.

    "Such words hurt Muslims all over the world," he said.

    The head of Britain's largest Muslim body said it was disturbed by the pope's use of a 14th century passage. The Muslim Council, which represents 400 groups in Britain, said the emperor's views were "ill-informed and frankly bigoted."

    "One would expect a religious leader such as the pope to act and speak with responsibility and repudiate the Byzantine emperor's views in the interests of truth and harmonious relations between the followers of Islam and Catholicism," said Muhammad Abdul Bari, the council's secretary-general.

    Elsewhere, Syria's grand mufti, the country's top Sunni Muslim religious authority, sent a letter to the Pope saying he feared the comments would worsen interfaith relations.

    In Cairo, Egypt, about 100 demonstrators gathered in an anti-Vatican protest outside the al-Azhar mosque, chanting "Oh Crusaders, oh cowards! Down with the pope!"

    Benedict, who has made the fight against growing secularism in Western society a theme of his pontificate, is expected to visit Turkey in late November. He was invited by the staunchly secularist Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, who said the invitation was part of an effort to strengthen dialogue between religions.
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  2. #2
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    Fuck Turkey! They're still persecuting Greeks today even.

  3. #3
    On Fire LegallyInsane's Avatar
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    I am sick and tired of hearing about these "peace loving people" who riot when anyone says anything that rubs them the wrong way. If Christians rioted everytime the US media or anyone else made a critical comment, it would look like Devil's Night in NJ at least once a week. You didn't see Jews looting video stores after Mel Gibson's assinine comments, did you?
    Let me be clear: I am not saying every Muslim is violent or rioter. That would be like saying every Christian is a member of the Klu Klux Klan. But, the truly peaceful Muslims need to regain control of their religion. Perhaps it is time for Islam to go through what Christianity went through starting with Martin Luther: time to split up and let the nut cases hang together. (Uh oh, now the Lutherans are gonna riot! Or will it be the Catholics? Or the Baptists? Or... )
    Last edited by LegallyInsane; 09.15.06 at 07:45 AM.
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  4. #4
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    I'm sick of the whole religion thing these days, perhaps people should just NOT comment on each other's faiths.
    Dumb text to recite by the Pope, what did he expect?
    The Tasnim Aslam comment did make me laugh my arse off though....
    ..."Anyone who describes islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence"....WTF?
    It's a bit like John Ashcroft's beauty (paraphrased) " If you disagree with the Patriot Act saying you will lose your liberties, then you are only aiding the terrorists and you will lose your liberty"
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

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  5. #5
    Good Enough weesfreewheelin's Avatar
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    I say we should have seperation of church and faith
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  6. #6
    Wear the fox hat... Filthy 150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme
    "Anyone who describes islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence"....WTF?
    That one caught my attention too.

    We are peaceful, unless you accuse us of being intolerant.

    Ummm...
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  7. #7
    Good Enough wham bam will rock's Avatar
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    Religion continues to ruin the world...
    "Never is just reven spelled backwards." -House

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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weesfreewheelin
    I say we should have seperation of church and faith
    I like that! Well done.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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  9. #9
    Romeo Delight Schools's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy 150
    That one caught my attention too.

    We are peaceful, unless you accuse us of being intolerant.

    Ummm...

    Dead on. I also thought that accusing the Pope of being stuck in the Middle Ages was ironic. Aren't the radical Muslims (especially the Wahabbis) trying to turn the clock back even further to the 13th century?

    To a tongue in cheek comment from another post; as someone from a state known for its Lutheran population, I can guarantee you that they won't riot. They would ask you what they did to deserve the harsh criticism since we Minnesotans always blame ourselves first.
    "Now take off my Van Halen shirt before you jinx the band and they break up or something!" - Robbie Hart

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    To me it seems like Islam is about 500 years behind Christianity. Don't know if its a natural evolution with religion but so far I have not been impressed with what I see.

    If the majority is in fact peaceful I sure don't see it.

    Here is an example. In America there is a sterotype that blacks are criminals. People get nervous around them in certain situations. Just like seeing an arabic man in the airport or driving a truck around. Anyway you turn on the news and you see African-American's who are outstanding citizens. Trying to make good in the world. They speak out against the ones that make them look like thugs and are trying to improve their image.

    Who do you see in the Arab community doing this? Heck name a Muslim who actually promoted peace and harmony in the world. Where is their Sister Theresa, their Ghandi, their Martin Luther King? The closest one I could think of is maybe Anwar Sadat but he did his fair share of killing. Malcolm X? Louis Farakhan?

    For whatever reason if the majority are peace loving people, they are unable to speak their voice. Its time to speak up and take that chance. Its like if David Koresh was in charge of the Catholic church.

    Anyway I am tired of waiting.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk fast98dodge's Avatar
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    It's funny you make the arab in airport comment, ziggysmalls...

    I was on the way back home from TLW II and there was a black guy sitting next to me on the plane. He was well educated, well spoken, dressed nice, drove a Porsche 911, and was a rep for a pharmacutical company out of Alabama. He was totally freakin' out about the four arabic guys on the plane next to us... Kinda ironic, a black guy who went against all stereotypes but all freaked out about the guys next to us...
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk smithjc's Avatar
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    Now that is exactly why I'll be driving to next year's shindig.

    I don't get it with the Islam stuff either. Why be so violent? I don't get the martyr thing either.

    Guess there's a lot I don't get and since the workweek's over and I'm done with all my thinking, I'm not gonna get into all this crap.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Religion - Humanity's worst mistake. <sigh>
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  14. #14
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
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    I'll tell you all now, I work with Arabs on a regular basis and most of them don't recognise the idiocy of the mouthpieces we seem to hear about.
    Bottom line is that, our news is very biased and extremism makes for good viewing figures.
    There are wankers on all sides but we get to hear about the Muslim wankers all the time.
    Quick story: Some of my Muslim colleagues asked me about Christianity and when I said I was not a christian they were shocked. They were surprised that I had no faith in the organised sense and asked me how I knew what rules or ethics to follow. They couldn't believe that a man could make his own decisions on how to run his life.
    But they accepted it.
    Islam is a religion of tolerance of others, even if it feels they are wrong, and if anyone cares to take a look at the Koran they will see this in it's teachings.
    It has been perverted in just the same way as the Bible by a vocal minority and these are the one's we hear about. If anybody cares to look into the KKK (supposed Christians) we can see just the same, but no one has invaded any states where the KKK lives recently.

    BTW. I agree with you Lowlifeflatheadscum
    Last edited by graeme; 09.16.06 at 01:01 AM.
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  15. #15
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme
    I'll tell you all now, I work with Arabs on a regular basis and most of them don't recognise the idiocy of the mouthpieces we seem to hear about.
    Bottom line is that, our news is very biased and extremism makes for good viewing figures.
    There are wankers on all sides but we get to hear about the Muslim wankers all the time.
    Quick story: Some of my Muslim colleagues asked me about Christianity and when I said I was not a christian they were shocked. They were surprised that I had no faith in the organised sense and asked me how I knew what rules or ethics to follow. They couldn't believe that a man could make his own decisions on how to run his life.
    But they accepted it.
    Islam is a religion of tolerance of others, even if it feels they are wrong, and if anyone cares to take a look at the Koran they will see this in it's teachings.
    It has been perverted in just the same way as the Bible by a vocal minority and these are the one's we hear about. If anybody cares to look into the KKK (supposed Christians) we can see just the same, but no one has invaded any states where the KKK lives recently.

    BTW. I agree with you Lowlifeflatheadscum

    I can't believe you are using the KKK as an example here. Yes what they did IN THE PAST was wrong and unjust. However today the KKK is what we want Al Quade to eventually be. An ineffective organization that is laughed at because there is no direct threat.

    In its heyday the KKK was nothing like what we see from the Taliban, Al Quada, and other groups using Islam as their vindication for their crimes.

    Have you ever seen airlines hitting buildings done in the name of Jesus or heck the Imperial Wizard or whatever the fuck he is called for the KKK?

    Lets take a poll. In the past 30 years do you think that Christians or Muslims have carried out the most terrorist attacks? How many bombings on commercial airlines have been done in the name of Jesus? How many bus bombings have been done in the name of Buddha?

    Just because you know a few Muslims does not mean you actually have a pulse of what is happening globally. Shit I can pet a pit bull and not get bit. Could be the nicest dog around but we all know about pit bulls.

    Show me the face of Islam that is promoting peace. I don't see public sermons a la the pope asking for peace on earth. Heck I don't know exactly what religion he is but I can say the Dali Lama asks for peace and prays. Both men never condone violence. Heck PJP2 was adamant about not going to war in Iraq. However I cannot think of one public person who happens to be Muslim and promotes peace.

    A few years ago some Christian activists went out and bombed some abortion clinics. Now you don't hear about it. The reasoning is that everday Christians were mad about what was being done in their name. Policed their own and tried to prevent any inflammatory talk which would lead to future bombings.

    BTW our government actually killed people in the name of Jesus. David Koresh. Yes he was screwed up but they did go after him and he believed in Jesus since he thought he was the second coming. I can't think of them actually doing that to a group of Muslims on our soil.

 

 

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