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Thread: What If...

  1. #1
    Good Enough The J Man's Avatar
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    The 3rd variety of Van Halen would have released a live album following the unexpected "success" of the "3" tour? Personally, I think they could have partially made up for the studio album with a well-documented live set. I mean, heck, I have more respect for Cherone than Hagar when it comes to singing tunes live. He did the Hagar, and he dug the Roth stuff out and sang it better than anyone could except for the Diamond one himself. So where do you think we would be right now if a live album was done? Would Cherone have been a little more "accepted" in Van Halen and cut a 2nd studio album?

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    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The J Man
    The 3rd variety of Van Halen would have released a live album following the unexpected "success" of the "3" tour? Personally, I think they could have partially made up for the studio album with a well-documented live set.
    Warner Bros seemed to have felt differently.
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    Among others.

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    I think a live album from any era is fun filler while you wait for another studio album. Van Halen should have released all kinds of crap from all eras...they are the all American LIVE band, and should have shown that with all kinds of live releases, DVD's, etc.

    Would it have helped the Cherone era? It wouldn't have hurt.
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    Eruption lal5150's Avatar
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    what if eddie got a new pair of shoes ??????????

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    Top Of The World Lodewijk5150's Avatar
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    its a part of his style ffs ;p

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    Top Of The World Lance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The J Man
    I have more respect for Cherone than Hagar when it comes to singing tunes live. He did the Hagar, and he dug the Roth stuff out and sang it better than anyone could except for the Diamond one himself.


    I'll have to lay down the bullshit card, on that one. I saw the Denver show, and not only I, but the majority of the crowd seemed unimpressed. There were the obligatory "Eddie, Eddie" chants, and despite Edward's best effort to incite a "Gary" chant, the crowd was undeterred. Gary's singing was subpar, as it sounded too much like he was trying to be something that he's not. Don't get me wrong, I dug his vocals with Extreme, he just wasn't the right fit, in Van Halen. As for the Denver show, opener Kenny Wayne Shepherd flat out stole the show.
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    Gary was spot on in Houston. The crowd was rabid waiting for the Kenny Wayne Shepherd set to end. Gary was strongly embraced by the crowd and everyone I was sitting around left with a sort of "wow...this might just work out after all" kind of vibe. I think the follow up album would have shown gary coming more into his own, things like the keys of the song and band interaction would have begun to fall into place...it will go down in history as on the biggest "what ifs." A live album might have done a lot to get the general audience behind the project and would have bought some time....too bad they didn't have the support of the label and did not have the vision, capital, or wherewithall to just go independant.

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    heh

    you guys are stoned. he may be a cool person but he doesn't belong in music. it's just not his thing.

    he has no presence, he has no act, he's just some dude trying way to hard to achieve something he was never destined to be.

    you cannot possibly grab your own ass on stage and think that somehow somewhere within any context outside of a gay bar this act can remotely be considered a possibility.

    i mean, the dude ran into the audience in australia, AND FELL DOWN 15 FEET OF STAIRS! man the dude kept on trucking like a pro you can't fault him for the effort BUT IT JUST ISN'T MEANT TO BE.

    it's not his fault really, and nothing against him. he can still hit a note, maybe a backup vocalist or studio vocalist or something, or an accountant with a gig on weekends, but not fronting anything anywhere.

    i wish him the best, but musically and performance wise he ain't level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lil'devil
    heh

    you guys are stoned. he may be a cool person but he doesn't belong in music. it's just not his thing.

    he has no presence, he has no act, he's just some dude trying way to hard to achieve something he was never destined to be.
    How could you say that he doesn't belong in music? That's just ignorant.

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    I think III was pretty much dead in the water (at least to WB execs) 6 weeks after the album had been released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500
    ...
    I think the follow up album would have shown gary coming more into his own, things like the keys of the song and band interaction would have begun to fall into place...it will go down in history as on the biggest "what ifs." A live album might have done a lot to get the general audience behind the project and would have bought some time....too bad they didn't have the support of the label and did not have the vision, capital, or wherewithall to just go independant.
    I agree with you. If the 3rd Van Halen incarnation had the chance to release their 2nd studio record, maybe the band could have continue and the fans response could have been a different one. Maybe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil'devil
    heh

    you guys are stoned. he may be a cool person but he doesn't belong in music. it's just not his thing.
    Wow. Go back and listen to Extreme. The guy is a true musical artist. Ashlee Simpson and Paris Hilton may not belong in music, but Gary Cherone is more than worthy. Hell, check out the Freddie Mercury Tribute. The guy has some killer pipes.

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    i have (had) every extreme album.

    you are mixing up a few things here. the following are separate skills, each of which has a 'learned' compontent and a 'talent' component that you are born with and cannot really fake:

    - 'hitting a note' the mechanics of singing, the technical aspects of being able to replicate a sheet of music vocally with accuracy

    - 'an act', some on stage schtick something that can be called 'entertainment'. for example, dave had the beligerent jokester, i'm gonna fuck your girlfriend act.

    - ' a presence, charisma '. this you can only be born with, you cannot learn it. this is the 'it' that everyone is looking for in a star. you can't describe it but you can point to it. for example dave had 'it' pre 1984, post oh say 1994 'it' was completely gone. dave is now just a douchebag without 'it', or maybe he has the 'old coked out dude it' but thats about all. now today, because EVERYONE can become a 2 minute celebrity by either getting a stupid video on youtube or getting some marketing dollars behind you watters down the 'it' factory so its harder to tell today who has it because so many shit acts are produced, but its still a very real gift.

    - ' natural musical ability '. we can debate about this all day long, but there are people that can 'hear music' and there are people that can 'play music'. 100% of all humans can learn to play music, only a very very small percentage can 'hear' music and create it out of nothing. on this board i can point to a single 18 year old kid that 'has the ear', no one else here does based on the clips that i've heard. i think everyone would agree with that (although to be fair we havent heard enough of everyones clips to truly judge). it's like ed's dad told him when he was a kid 'you got the gift'. this you can only be born with, you CANNOT learn to 'hear' music. it's like that in graphic/visual arts. i have the gift, i can and always could draw, paint, design, arrange visually better than anyone and i've always been amongst the top 1% of graphic designers. i don't have the 'ear', i cannot 'hear' music despite the fact i can play/replicate whatever music. i also have the gift of bieng an asshole but thats another thread in it self

    - 'lyrics, writing ability'. okay partly this can be learned. proper writing skills can and actually even if you have talent must be developed and honed. so i think you can learn to write lyrics, i think you can learn music theory to the point where a song will kinda make sense and sound okay. it helps to have a knack and talent for this but there is a large skills development component here.

    so from my point of view:

    - gary can definately 'hit a note' and 'replicate music. no question he can sing fairly well, especially the lounge stuff. as you said, really great pipes, no question about that at all.

    - gary has no act. none. there is nothing there that you can call an act. there is no reason to watch.

    - gary has no charisma. hell of a nice guy, pretty funny, zilch on charisma. he has no place being on stage, ever.

    - gary has no natural musical ability. i think i have heard everything he ever released except tribe of judah. he just cannot hear music. he can hit the notest technically, he cannot 'hear' music and come up with interesting musical ideas that speak for them selves. this is not a dis, it is just the way it is, most pop musicians simply don't have 'ear' either.

    - gary really cannot write lyrics. you can see the germ of an idea in each song, but he has no idea how to write a catchy tune. it's hard to say from his work if its a lack of talent or an undeveloped talent, but they are all simply lame. i can maybe see how people might like the stuff he writes, but there is just no pop, no zing there. i only ever really liked 'get the funk out' mostly because nuno really has a great sense of rhythm but you know, there it is again. that signature cheezy gary title with a stupid play on words - 'get the funk out'. i mean thats just lame.

    overanalysis? sure. but it helps to define exactly what we are talking about. mostly when people talk about the arts they fail to properly define the variables and invariable end up talking about different things. at least now when you disagree with me you can point to exactly where

    bottom line: gary is a really great person, but as a performer and musician he just sucks.
    Last edited by lil'devil; 08.11.06 at 11:37 AM.

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    Baluchitherium sinner's swing's Avatar
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    it's like that in graphic/visual arts. i have the gift, i can and always could draw, paint, design, arrange visually better than anyone and i've always been amongst the top 1% of graphic designers. i don't have the 'ear', i cannot 'hear' music despite the fact i can play/replicate whatever music.


    Man, don't be so down on yourself. Get some self esteem.

    Seriously, do you have a website we could go to, to see your genius? I mean an artist of your caliber must have some example of being in the top 1% of graphic designers. Is that the top 1% in the world? your town, your bedroom? You must be rich beyond our wildest dreams. Maybe you could teach us, oh wait, that's right, we can't be taught the supreme genius you possess. Damn, maybe in my next life.

 

 

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