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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    06.25.15 @ 09:06 AM
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    Default The Potential of Van Halen, 1996

    As I was reading another thread discussing the potential of Van Hagar after Balance, I came up with TONS of "what if" questions. Consider these, as just opinions of mine, of course...

    After "Balance" in 1995, the band was given mixed reviews. There were good ones (like "The album shows a very serious side of Van Halen, yet stays true to the rockin' attitude that got them where they are today") and bad ones (like "Van Halen wanted to be serious, but couldnt help but go back to the old party style of 'Amsterdam'"). Yet, no matter what reviews they got, the tour and album was advertised better than ever, and they were at their highest peak on MTV since 1984. The tour was considered their best since the CVH era, and were being considered the next Led Zeppelin amongst many.

    So now we move onto 1996 with two new Van Hagar tracks, "Humans Being" and "Respect The Wind," as well as work on a new single for a new album, "Between Us Two". Now the thinking comes in. I believe that they could've released those three tracks on a brand new album as well as, I'd like to say, 6-7 "Marching To Mars" tracks (Halenized, of course) and a few original VH tracks, and you have possibly one of the band's greatest albums ever. Without question. The fact that its so diverse makes it great enough, and its obvious with "Humans Being" thats what Van Halen was leaning towards.

    Now comes reviews. The tour would most likely go on to sell out, just like the "Ambulance" tour (and if they advertise the way they did in 1995, they'd be set), and they would probably go worldwide from August 1996 to April 1997 (estimated by album recording time, and traveling time). Album reviews would probably be more balanced (no pun intended) than Balance, as they have proven the serious side is where they want to stay.

    MTV would be giving video awards for Humans Being (as I believe the video is brilliant!), and at the time of the start of the new tour, they would be able to perform a new single as well as a classic tune at the MTV Video Music Awards, which is perfect advertisement for the tour and album. The band would get so much hype, it would probably stay on the charts for months, peaking at #1 for a long time. They could go on to have three Top 20 singles (Humans Being, Salvation on Sand Hill (rumored to have been previously recorded with Van Halen) and Between Us Two. Four if you wish to count That's Why I Love You as a POSSIBLE new Van Hagar tune that year). The album could go up for awards everywhere.

    So what pisses me off is, the brothers Van Halen decided to throw away this golden opportunity and put up with Sam, and go with Gary. Had Van Halen gone the Sammy route in 1996, they may be on tour, or we would be hearing news about new recording sessions right now. Its a damn shame. They would've saved themselves a lot of embarrassment, and fans, had they stuck with Sammy. So what do you feel the potential of Van Halen in 1996/7 was had they stuck in the same direction of "Balance" and "Humans Being."

    Lately I've been so pro-Dave, I would've never even considered starting this thread, but I was at the other thread where we discussed the band's potential post-Balance, and I started to think. Forgive me if I'm rehashing an old topic here, but I thought the thread was a neat idea, throwing all of the possibilities out there.
    "I respect that youre passionate about this but what your saying is complete idiocy..." - MF5150 on McDonald's "preying" on young kids.

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  2. #2
    Unchained abcrazy1's Avatar
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    08.02.10 @ 08:01 PM
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    Ray Fuckin' Daniels did it.... (For the Sam generation)

    Ray Daniels was so despised in the 60's by Andy Griffith, that he crypitcally worked him into his TV show. "Mayberry, RFD"
    Last edited by abcrazy1; 06.27.06 at 11:57 PM.
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  3. #3
    Eruption
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    09.16.17 @ 05:43 PM
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    Default

    Isn't Daniels responsible for getting Roth and VH together at the VMAs?

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk
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    06.25.15 @ 09:06 AM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rockygotfingered
    Isn't Daniels responsible for getting Roth and VH together at the VMAs?
    I believe so. The band was so against it, but Danniels pressured the guys into doing it. Once they did it, well...I think where we are right now explains things pretty well.
    "I respect that youre passionate about this but what your saying is complete idiocy..." - MF5150 on McDonald's "preying" on young kids.

    "He was born a human, he's a horse's ass by proxy." - It's Mike on Eddymon.

  5. #5
    Baluchitherium Rovus's Avatar
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    07.09.11 @ 09:31 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by vhrocks2005
    So what pisses me off is, the brothers Van Halen decided to throw away this golden opportunity and put up with Sam, and go with Gary. Had Van Halen gone the Sammy route in 1996, they may be on tour, or we would be hearing news about new recording sessions right now.
    One thing is certain had Sam stayed, we wouldn't have heard anything of Roth catelogue past 'Jump', 'Panama', 'ATBL', and 'YRGM' - and that was a major contributor to his departure. At least the short-lived Gary era had it's positives.

    I believe there was huge potential there if the 1996 fiasco never occurred and they continued on in the same direction. Balance is easily my favourite Sammy-era album and 'Humans Being' is argubly their best rocker also. After Eddie's sobriety during the making of Balance, his motivation for creating more music was at an all-time high. Everytime I read his interviews at the time with mentionings like, "I'm just getting started!" or "I'm writing so much music, even on the toilet!"...I just can't help wonder what they would've come up with...it makes me drool.
    Bobby Cohn: Who's going to be at Waynestock?
    Wayne Campbell: Um, uh...Aerosmith & Pearl Jam!
    Garth Algar: Ha ha ha ha ho!
    Bobby: Who else?
    Garth: Uh, me...and...and Wayne...
    Wayne: ...and uh...VAN HALEN!!!
    Garth: Wow. Van Halen. Who else?
    Bobby: Yeah, who else?
    Wayne: Uh, an old man fashioning a kayak out of a log?

    - Wayne's World 2

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  6. #6
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 05:15 PM
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    Default

    And don't forget the the passage from Sammy's supposed autobiography where he wanted the band to take acid/shrooms in the desert and write music then.

  7. #7
    Banned!
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    12.30.11 @ 11:24 AM
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    he isnt jim morrison! Cant same have an orignal idea? But then again,he needs all the help he can get to create better lyrics. "Humans being" was a good start.

  8. #8
    Hot For Teacher snare812's Avatar
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    11.22.17 @ 09:09 PM
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    "So what pisses me off is, the brothers Van Halen decided to throw away this golden opportunity and put up with Sam, and go with Gary."

    come on....uhhhh i think it involved both vh bros and sammy parties who made the mess....it wasn't JUST the brothers.....

    gary ruled

    imo of course.....

  9. #9
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    12.16.17 @ 08:42 AM
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    Default

    great thread... and fun to think the "what if". the 1996 direction was exciting... i remember hearing "humans being" and being blown away: a new beginning. Even after Sam left, and we heard "Me Wise Magic", the music was just incredible! Ed at his best.

    In many ways, it's like asking.... what if John Bonham didn;t die.
    Sings like a bird. Rocks like a pig.

  10. #10
    Romeo Delight grifhaln's Avatar
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    05.23.12 @ 03:47 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rovus
    One thing is certain had Sam stayed, we wouldn't have heard anything of Roth catelogue past 'Jump', 'Panama', 'ATBL', and 'YRGM' - and that was a major contributor to his departure. At least the short-lived Gary era had it's positives.
    I certainly agree that the Gary tour had its perks! I just wish someone in the band would have considered the idea of "compromise"!
    for example....what would have been wrong with touring with Gary to play the "Dave stuff" and Sam for the "Van Hagar stuff"...just rotate every 3 years or so...it would have at least given them a break from each other for awhile!
    I know some people will say this is crazy...but why?? what would be so hard?? Sam could do his solo thing in-between and Ed could "experiment" more with Gary for a handfull of new songs. There is NO rule that you have to be "best friends" to record/play music together! hell, rock and roll isnt supposed to have ANY rules...stop making them up as you go Eddie! not to mention "conflict" can create some GREAT tunes!! all ya have to do is manage the "conflict"...grow the f up boys!!
    honestly, I could care less what they think of each other...just freekin play!
    Grif

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by vhrocks2005
    and they were at their highest peak on MTV since 1984. The tour was considered their best since the CVH era, and were being considered the next Led Zeppelin amongst many.


    MTV would be giving video awards for Humans Being (as I believe the video is brilliant!), and at the time of the start of the new tour, they would be able to perform a new single as well as a classic tune at the MTV Video Music Awards, which is perfect advertisement for the tour and album. The band would get so much hype, it would probably stay on the charts for months, peaking at #1 for a long time. They could go on to have three Top 20 singles (Humans Being, Salvation on Sand Hill (rumored to have been previously recorded with Van Halen) and Between Us Two. Four if you wish to count That's Why I Love You as a POSSIBLE new Van Hagar tune that year). The album could go up for awards everywhere.
    .
    I agree with most of what you said except all this MTV talk. They weren't at their highest peak on MTV during Balance, I'd say they were at their LOWEST. They got some airplay with Don't Tell me and CSLY, but not as much as they used to. Ray Danniels had no clout with MTV so they didn't get the push like they used to. On top of that, 95-96 was around the time when MTV went full steam ahead with programming dumb ass shows instead of playing music. And the only music they were playing was Notorius PDiddy Daddy crap. Rock music on MTV has been non exisitant for quite a while. The "M" stands for MONEY not Music.

    Maybe they would have done well on VH1 though

  12. #12
    Eruption ericjt's Avatar
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    10.20.06 @ 08:33 AM
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    MTV did alot for "Balance" early on (Spring Break, etc...) but later on they almost completely ignored VH (refusal to play Amsterdam even after editing it).
    MTV loved VH around Monsters of Rock & F*CK time; that was when MTV was really finding its grove with news shows & specials and what not.

    If VH had just taken 1996 off, as Sammy had wanted to with his wife being pregnant, the time off could have saved VH. Ed & Al could have done "Twister" and other things to keep busy if they wanted to. Let BOV1 keep their name around, take a year off and let everyone cool off. Come back strong with a new CD late 97.
    Van Halen Live: 15 shows.
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  13. #13
    On Fire smithtone's Avatar
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    09.20.17 @ 05:22 PM
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    Default

    Blaming Ray Danniels (SRO Management) seems like a safe bet, but there are a couple of questions I always had about this.

    I guess I don't think it was 100% Danniels that forced Hagar out of the band in early 1996. I tend to think that EVH had a lot to do with that, too. Maybe Danniels was whispering things in his ear, so to speak, but EVH seemed to become strange around the time Ed Leffler died and when he "stopped" drinking. And Hagar and EVH didn't get along on the Balance tour, so I guess I wasn't too shocked. But was it ALL Danniels? Hagar kind implied that, but don't you think EVH partly responsible, too? And don't you think Hagar gets some credit, as well?

    According to a Mitch Malloy interview, he was offered the VH gig first. I guess he said he would think about it and then he saw DLR and VH on MTV and said there was no way he could follow that, so he passed. Then VH (Danniels) brought in Cherone after the Roth fiasco.

    But if I'm not mistaken, Roth had contacted VH management after he found out the band was going to put out a Greatest Hits CD. I believe the story goes that EVH went to DLR's place and hung out and EVH asked DLR if he wanted to sing a couple of new tracks on the Greatest Hits CD. Apparently EVH brought DLR back to 5150 at some point and surprised the hell out of AVH and MA. And it went downhill from there.

    So my questions are:

    Did Danniels try to get DLR back, or was it EVH?
    When DLR was "back", did EVH kick him out or was it Danniels?

    My point? Danniels managed other popular bands with no major problems until VH (Rush, others?). With all of the goofy things this band has done in the past 10+ years, I don't think it was ALL Danniels. I think EVH had A LOT to do with all of this "wasted potential", too. Danniels may have had a hand in bouncing Hagar from "behind the scenes", but I think it was mostly EVH taking the band down after that.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericjt
    MTV did alot for "Balance" early on (Spring Break, etc...) but later on they almost completely ignored VH (refusal to play Amsterdam even after editing it).
    MTV loved VH around Monsters of Rock & F*CK time; that was when MTV was really finding its grove with news shows & specials and what not.

    If VH had just taken 1996 off, as Sammy had wanted to with his wife being pregnant, the time off could have saved VH. Ed & Al could have done "Twister" and other things to keep busy if they wanted to. Let BOV1 keep their name around, take a year off and let everyone cool off. Come back strong with a new CD late 97.
    Yes, that would have been the best case scenerio for VH.

    And yeah while they did get a little push at the beginning of Balance, it seemed like MTV just ditched VH after the "CSLY" video. "Not Enough" got very little airplay and like you said "Amsterdam" was never played.

    MTV played the shit outta VH on the FUCK album though. Didn't "Right Now" win best video of the year or something?

    The good ol days....

  15. #15
    Eruption ericjt's Avatar
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    10.20.06 @ 08:33 AM
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    I never saw the video for Not Enough until Video Hits Vol 1 came out. Thats how little MTV played it.
    Van Halen Live: 15 shows.
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