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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Default Newbie here so forgive me if I'm rehashing old topics but...

    I was just wondering about something...

    One of the last conversations i had with a similarly passionate VH fan was during the whole Dave's back, no he's not, Gary's in, well, not anymore period. One of the things that we heard around the rumour mill was that Ed was considering doing what Santana has since done twice, recording with various singers...at one point I heard that Sara McLachlan was someone who actually visited 5150. But, the label nixed the idea. I've always wondered how 'true' this was. Can any of you, that have obviously been more active participants in the online community, offer any insight into this?

    Reason I inquire is I've always thought Ed, as songwriter, was limited in ways by his frontmen and stature. that's what had me so excited about VH III and so dissapointed by how it all played out.

    Does anyone else agree with me that despite the absolutely incredible catalogue these guys have put together is simply a giant "what if?" I often view the VH albums as full of compromise. I've heard plenty of interviews (obviously taken with a grain of salt) where Ed talks about not being able to do the music the way he wanted because Dave didn't write "this" kind of lyric or Sammy wouldn't sing on "that" kind of material. One of the things that had me most excited about VHIII was reading him say that it was the first time he felt "completely free" to write whatever he wanted and that it was the first time that someone's poetry inspired him to write music, instead of writing music and then figuring out how to work Dave or Sammy in.

    Would an album of Ed, Al and Mike throwing down whatever they wanted with a slew of varied and talented vocalists have been awesome or would it have been trite and silly?

    Is Edward's legacy that of someone whose best work we may never have heard because of having to compromise with bandmates, labels and fans' expectations?

    Just wondering what opinions might be out there on these things. I've lived the past SEVERAL years completely severed from other Van Halen fans and thus have not had a good VH related talk in a very very long time so forgive my ambitious and lengthy posts.

  2. #2
    Top Of The World jgdrag's Avatar
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    05.20.08 @ 08:31 PM
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    Though you may consider Edward as being held back by DLR, I personally believe that is how all the Van Halen magic happenned. Half Edward and half Dave. Dave alone is not Van Halen material as Edward alone is not Classic Van Halen. Each guy held the other guy back from going to far in his personal direction that they wanted to exploit. They had to meet half way and when that happened, Classic Van Halen was born.
    There have been all sorts of rumours surrounding lead singers, but I can't ever recall a Santana like album coming from Edward.
    Yes I'm living at a pace that kills

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    06.14.17 @ 06:46 PM
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    Sometimes we need people to hold us back.*



    *For further explanation of what happens when nobody is there to shape and craft riffing into actual song form, please check out VHIII.

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium steve mcqueen's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 10:41 PM
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    If I remember correctly.....awhile back, right after Dave left/fired....the Brothers did consider doing an album with different singers on each song....then they hired Sammy.....I can't recall which interview I read this in...it was 20 years ago.....but it was discussed back then.....

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 11:09 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menlow

    *For further explanation of what happens when nobody is there to shape and craft riffing into actual song form, please check out VHIII.
    In your nearest thrift store's coaster bargain bin.

  6. #6
    Unchained Judgement Day's Avatar
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    12.04.17 @ 07:19 AM
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    McQueen I remember reading the same interview, I remember that they had many of the singers lined up before Sammy joined the band. If I remember right, he talked about Pete Townsend and Joe Cocker. Eddie always said he envision "Right Now" being sung by Joe Cocker and he did have the song written around 1984 so it could have been a possibility on that album if it would have ever come to fruition.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    06.14.17 @ 06:46 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen
    In your nearest thrift store's coaster bargain bin.

    I've still got my original copy.

    I guess I'm just sentimental that way.

  8. #8
    Baluchitherium steve mcqueen's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 10:41 PM
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    So why not then?......can't work w/ dave...or Sammy......it's was discussed in the past...to the point where people were brought in.....record lables should love the idea considering all the coin they made off of Santana....I personaly would love to hear something like this.....Eddie playing with some of the popular singers of the day......it would certianly get his name back out there as a relevent artist again......and we would all get new music from the Man himself......
    Question is......who would you like to hear sing with Eddie and Alex....
    Kenny Chesney would sign up almost for sure.....

    Who else?...

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgdrag
    Though you may consider Edward as being held back by DLR, I personally believe that is how all the Van Halen magic happenned. Half Edward and half Dave. Dave alone is not Van Halen material as Edward alone is not Classic Van Halen. Each guy held the other guy back from going to far in his personal direction that they wanted to exploit. They had to meet half way and when that happened, Classic Van Halen was born.
    There have been all sorts of rumours surrounding lead singers, but I can't ever recall a Santana like album coming from Edward.
    Oh please don't misunderstand me...I ADORE David Lee Roth....he drives me nuts sometimes, but I love him and in NO WAY do I diminish his contributions, singing ability or creativity. Quite the contrary. I'm one of those folks that really does think that we would never have heard of Edward Van Halen if it weren't for David Lee Roth. And Sammy, despite my really not liking him very much, did a GREAT deal for this band. I'm not one of those people that craps on Dave and Sammy and thinks Gary is god almighty or whatever, but I think we can all agree that this is a very unique situation. What dave was good at, musically and otherwise, Sammy was lacking. What Sammy brought to the table, dave did not have, and had no interest in having...and all that goes for Gary. That's what I'm getting at. I believe, and I could be WAAAAY off on this, but I believe that Edward has never had a McCartney to his Lennon. Does that make sense? Perhaps I'm over analyzing and such but it seems that Edward has never really released THE album he would have liked to release. Maybe I'm wrong. he's the only that knows for sure. Who the hell am I? I'm not going to sit here and pretend to have some insight or whatever, and I'm the same guy that's written in other posts about him not oweing me anything etc...I'm just saying, despite the undeniable GOOD that Dave, Sammy and Gary have eached contributed in their own way, do any of you feel that any of them, or anyone at all, is truly THE best collaboritive partner for Edward...and obviously this is based solely on how we've come to appreciate the material that has been released and our own perspectives...

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menlow
    I've still got my original copy.

    I guess I'm just sentimental that way.

    You big sap.

  11. #11
    Top Of The World jgdrag's Avatar
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    05.20.08 @ 08:31 PM
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    Perhaps you don't understand the level of success Van Halen had reached, the top!
    I believe Edward already had his McCartney. The music cannot be duplicated!
    Last edited by jgdrag; 06.20.06 at 07:41 PM.
    Yes I'm living at a pace that kills

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgdrag
    Perhaps you don't understand the level of success Van Halen had reached, the top!
    I believe Edward already had his McCartney.
    I completely get what you're saying but I'm not talking about just "success" or "influence" or whatever...do you think we've heard the BEST, the SOUL the absolute ESSENCE of Ed Van Halen? I'm not saying we haven't necessarily, I'm just asking if any/all of you think we have or haven't? This may sound really silly and over-romantic, but I think about songwriting like this: All of us have a song that's inside of us. A song that completely and perfectly captures the measure of our creation....a song that perfectly captures our essence and if we're lucky, we'll write it. I haven't written mine yet. I've come close. At times I listen to the music of people like Waits, Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Moore, Dylan and others and I think, "THAT'S IT. That's GOTTA be IT!" Other times I think, "maybe not." In the end, the songwriter is the only one that will ever sit back, light a cigarette (or not) and think to themselves, "Regardless of anything else, regardless of how people react or whether or not anyone likes it, THIS is MY song." But from where you guys are sitting, do you think you've heard that, or anything approaching that, from Edward Van Halen?

    And forgive me if I'm being completely silly and over-romantic or whatever...like I've said, it's been a LOOOONG time since I've had the pleasure of hanging out with other Van Halen fans.

  13. #13
    5150 KarenCarpenter's Avatar
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    Eruption - 1978


  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve mcqueen
    So why not then?......can't work w/ dave...or Sammy......it's was discussed in the past...to the point where people were brought in.....record lables should love the idea considering all the coin they made off of Santana....I personaly would love to hear something like this.....Eddie playing with some of the popular singers of the day......it would certianly get his name back out there as a relevent artist again......and we would all get new music from the Man himself......
    Question is......who would you like to hear sing with Eddie and Alex....
    Kenny Chesney would sign up almost for sure.....

    Who else?...
    You know, I think, had it happened BEFORE the whole Santana thing, it might have been really cool...but now, I'd be afraid the labels would be thinking about it being some kind of "greatest hits/tribute" thing where they get losers to sing their favourite VH songs...can you just imagine David Coverdale doing "Panama" or the guy from Creed doing "Mean Street" or some other absurd bullshit.

    In my personal wet dream, people like Van Morrison, Joe Cocker, Eddie Vedder, Chris Cornell, Aimee Mann, Matthew Sweet, Simon Le Bon, Traci Bonham, Cedric Bixler or countless others would be involved....hell...I really wouldn't mind WHO it was as long as it was someone that inspired Ed and Al to create something from the gut...not just go into cruise control. You know what I mean? I have my own opinions and such (and obviously those are coming out) but in the end, what I look for is true inspiration on the part of the artist. It's only when I feel an artist is just going through the motions when I start to think "man...this sucks." But, back in the day, when names like mcclachlin and cocker and siouxe from the banshees were being tossed around as possible singers on this album, I was pretty damn excited. I too read the bit about "Right Now" being a piece of music Ed had stashed away for years and had envisioned it as a Joe Cocker tune...that's just the sort of thing that gets me to thinking about "what if" Van Halen had not been pigeoned holed as some "feel good" or "summertime" or whatever kind of rock band and Ed had been able to establish himself in the same way George Harrison or Tom Waits or Brian Wilson have been established...It has always seemed to me people are more quick to juxtapose Van Halen to Poison or Winger or Trixter than they are to legitimate musical artists that have contributed something truly special...maybe I've just got a chip on my shoulder...I don't know...

    it just seems that EVH will always be that guitar hero guy, the guy that did that cool "tapping" thing instead of a true musical visionary. For instance, as a musician, I've always been more captivated by his INCREDIBLE rhythm parts and his phrasing than I have been with the tapping and such that the laymen appreciate. Maybe that's not the case at all. maybe I'm a jackass (quick all of you race to be the first to post 'you're a jackass') but I'm sure what I'm saying resonates with at least SOME of you.

  15. #15
    Top Of The World jgdrag's Avatar
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    05.20.08 @ 08:31 PM
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    Problem could be that no one else took what he did and continued with it, or took it to another level.
    Seams his style is somewhat limited, or can't be played with any other genre, there's were the heavy metal label comes from, because we know VH is not heavy metal but big rock!
    Yes I'm living at a pace that kills

 

 

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