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Thread: Here we go...

  1. #1
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Default Here we go...

    Is this truly necessary?

    Judiciary Committe Sends Flag-Burning Amendment to the Senate Floor

    The Supreme Court has already said this flag burning is free speech protected under the 1st amendment. Congress just doesn't get it.

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    Good Enough Phatie's Avatar
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    I really need to rethink this one. All this time I thought they were talking about 'fag burning'. Geez, I feel like a dunce.

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    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    Bill Clinton burned our flag; he set such a good example for us to practice free speech. not.

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    Wouldn't it be smarter/sneakier to pass a federal regualtion that mandates flags be made out of non-flamable matierial?
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  5. #5
    Baluchitherium Guitar Shark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Is this truly necessary?

    Judiciary Committe Sends Flag-Burning Amendment to the Senate Floor

    The Supreme Court has already said this flag burning is free speech protected under the 1st amendment. Congress just doesn't get it.
    Brad, the purpose of a constitutional amendment is to change the constitution itself and bypass judicial review. In other words, if this amendment passes, and is ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures (a heavy burden), it becomes the new law and the Supreme Court may not overrule it. It can interpret that law in later cases, but it cannot hold the constitutional amendment "unconstitutional."

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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZORBA5150
    Bill Clinton burned our flag; he set such a good example for us to practice free speech. not.
    Why do you make things like this up? Lying does nothing but show how emotionally involved you are with a former President. Get over it, and start using truth and fact to support your views rather than inflammatory lies that do nothing for your character.

    As a former serviceman, it's fine with me that people can burn a flag. That's different than thinking that it's ok to burn a flag. When a person burns a flag, they show a decided lack of respect and understanding for the freedoms they take for granted. They don't appreciate the history that delivered those freedoms. When someone burns a flag, the only message it sends is that the burner is a scumbag without respect for anything that America actually represents.

    That said, I really wish Congress would concentrate on doing their jobs a bit better. When they spend time, energy, and money on superfluous, emotionally charged issues that don't actually accomplish anything they should be turned out of office.

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    Baluchitherium Guitar Shark's Avatar
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    It's election year pandering, that's all it is.

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    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Shark
    Brad, the purpose of a constitutional amendment is to change the constitution itself and bypass judicial review. In other words, if this amendment passes, and is ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures (a heavy burden), it becomes the new law and the Supreme Court may not overrule it. It can interpret that law in later cases, but it cannot hold the constitutional amendment "unconstitutional."
    Well, duh.

    My point was that the Supreme Court made it pretty clear, and that we should just leave it alone.
    Last edited by BradS; 06.15.06 at 04:26 PM.

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    Baluchitherium Guitar Shark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Well, duh.

    My point was that the Supreme Court made it pretty clear, and that we should just leave it alone.
    Well, then your point makes no sense. It's very common for certain groups to seek Constitutional amendments after they are irritated by Supreme Court decisions, even "pretty clear" ones.

    One example that comes to mind is that the Supreme Court upheld slavery for a long time (Dred Scott case, if I'm not mistaken). It was a constitutional amendment that ultimately prohibited slavery.

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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Well, duh.

    My point was that the Supreme Court made it pretty clear, and that we should just leave it alone.
    Why do you think they want an Amendment, rather than just legislation?

    If they're concerned with respecting the flag, there are much more positive steps that they could take. I've never seen a flag burned, but I sure have seen them neglected. If someone is going to fly a flag, they need to do it the right way. If it's not lit up at night, it needs to come down during that time. If it's tattered and threadbare, it needs to be properly disposed of. How many of those "I'm so patriotic! Look, I have a flag" post-9/11 flags were ever properly cared for? I say fine the fucks that can't show enough respect to fly it properly. There's a lot of neglect out there.

  11. #11
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Shark
    Well, then your point makes no sense. It's very common for certain groups to seek Constitutional amendments after they are irritated by Supreme Court decisions, even "pretty clear" ones.

    One example that comes to mind is that the Supreme Court upheld slavery for a long time (Dred Scott case, if I'm not mistaken). It was a constitutional amendment that ultimately prohibited slavery.
    I see your point, but I just think it is pretty significant that the Supreme Court feels that flag burning is a form of free speech protected under the 1st amendment, and I don’t see why Congress has the attitude of “Well then, we will make an amendment and end all of this”. I think they should just leave it alone. Spending time on BS like this is the whole problem with Congress…they should be doing something more substantial.

    Slavery and flag burning are not even close to being the same thing.
    Last edited by BradS; 06.15.06 at 04:34 PM.

  12. #12
    Baluchitherium Guitar Shark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    I see your point, but I just think it is pretty significant that the Supreme Court feels that flag burning is a form of free speech protected under the 1st amendment, and I don’t see why Congress has the attitude of “Well then, we will make an amendment and end all of this”. I think they should just leave it alone. Spending time on BS like this is the whole problem with Congress…they should be doing something more substantial.

    Slavery and flag burning are not even close to being the same thing.
    I do agree with that. It's election year pandering, as I said earlier. They are trying to galvanize the conservative base.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    GS isn't saying that the two are clode to being the same thing, Brad. He's saying that the reasons for Amendments rather than legislation are similar.

  14. #14
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    Why do you think they want an Amendment, rather than just legislation?

    If they're concerned with respecting the flag, there are much more positive steps that they could take. I've never seen a flag burned, but I sure have seen them neglected. If someone is going to fly a flag, they need to do it the right way. If it's not lit up at night, it needs to come down during that time. If it's tattered and threadbare, it needs to be properly disposed of. How many of those "I'm so patriotic! Look, I have a flag" post-9/11 flags were ever properly cared for? I say fine the fucks that can't show enough respect to fly it properly. There's a lot of neglect out there.
    I can agree with that, I just don't think burning the flag in protest is the same thing. You are referring to neglect; I am referring to expression.

    I have never seen one burned either except on television, and I think that people who do it are scum, but if we start taking something like the flag, and forcing people to not be able to burn it if they wish, then we are crossing a line. What will be next? An amendment that prohibits being able to say the United States sucks?
    Last edited by BradS; 06.15.06 at 04:40 PM.

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    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    The supreme court also said the goverment can take your property for any reason they deem fit...imminent domain....doesnt make it right. As a American I dont burn flags but I think it should not be a criminal offense we have a bill of rights. Thats what makes us better than the rest.

 

 

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