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  1. #1
    5150 HuBBs5150's Avatar
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    Default Jesus goes to court to prove his existance.

    Did Jesus exist? Italian court to decide.


    ROME (Reuters) - Forget the U.S. debate over intelligent design versus evolution.

    An Italian court is tackling Jesus -- and whether the Roman Catholic Church may be breaking the law by teaching that he existed 2,000 years ago.

    The case pits against each other two men in their 70s, who are from the same central Italian town and even went to the same seminary school in their teenage years.

    The defendant, Enrico Righi, went on to become a priest writing for the parish newspaper. The plaintiff, Luigi Cascioli, became a vocal atheist who, after years of legal wrangling, is set to get his day in court later this month.

    "I started this lawsuit because I wanted to deal the final blow against the Church, the bearer of obscurantism and regression," Cascioli told Reuters.


    Cascioli says Righi, and by extension the whole Church, broke two Italian laws. The first is "Abuso di Credulita Popolare" (Abuse of Popular Belief) meant to protect people against being swindled or conned. The second crime, he says, is "Sostituzione di Persona," or impersonation.


    "The Church constructed Christ upon the personality of John of Gamala," Cascioli claimed, referring to the 1st century Jew who fought against the Roman army.


    A court in Viterbo will hear from Righi, who has yet to be indicted, at a January 27 preliminary hearing meant to determine whether the case has enough merit to go forward.


    "In my book, The Fable of Christ, I present proof Jesus did not exist as a historic figure. He must now refute this by showing proof of Christ's existence," Cascioli said.


    Speaking to Reuters, Righi, 76, sounded frustrated by the case and baffled as to why Cascioli -- who, like him, came from the town of Bagnoregio -- singled him out in his crusade against the Church.


    "We're both from Bagnoregio, both of us. We were in seminary together. Then he took a different path and we didn't see each other anymore," Righi said.


    "Since I'm a priest, and I write in the parish newspaper, he is now suing me because I 'trick' the people."


    Righi claims there is plenty of evidence to support the existence of Jesus, including historical texts.


    He also claims that justice is on his side. The judge presiding over the hearing has tried, repeatedly, to dismiss the case -- prompting appeals from Cascioli.


    "Cascioli says he didn't exist. And I said that he did," he said. "The judge will to decide if Christ exists or not."


    Even Cascioli admits that the odds are against him, especially in Roman Catholic Italy.


    "It would take a miracle to win," he joked.
    01/04/06 12:35
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  2. #2
    Eruption Dimoncutr's Avatar
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    Is this atheist Luigi Cascioli going to swear on the Bible?

  3. #3
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimoncutr
    Is this atheist Luigi Cascioli going to swear on the Bible?
    Why would he? He is an atheist. In court you DO NOT have to swear on the Bible. If you are of no religious orientation, or just choose not to, all you have to do is affirm to tell the truth.

  4. #4
    Eruption Dimoncutr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Why would he? He is an atheist. In court you DO NOT have to swear on the Bible. If you are of no religious orientation, or just choose not to, all you have to do is affirm to tell the truth.
    My point is who do you swear to? The reason for religon is to keep people in check. A law over man so to speak. People can't be allowed to run amuck. Jesus did live. Being christian, he was god. But over all he was also a true human being. People chose to follow his teachings. In these days of trying to kill God. People want to destroy what others believe. Why?-- Just, why? I don't tell anyone how to think. I don't have that power. If you believe in a higher power you believe God can. Again my point is,who do you swear to? Who do you have to answer to. Everyone, someday, in the end, has to. No one can hide from themselves.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimoncutr
    My point is who do you swear to? The reason for religon is to keep people in check. A law over man so to speak. People can't be allowed to run amuck. Jesus did live. Being christian, he was god. But over all he was also a true human being. People chose to follow his teachings. In these days of trying to kill God. People want to destroy what others believe. Why?-- Just, why? I don't tell anyone how to think. I don't have that power. If you believe in a higher power you believe God can. Again my point is,who do you swear to? Who do you have to answer to. Everyone, someday, in the end, has to. No one can hide from themselves.

    You answered your own question.

    In the end, the ultimate authority to who we answer to is ourselves, of course.

  6. #6
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimoncutr
    My point is who do you swear to?
    You don't swear to anyone...you affirm to tell the truth.

    The reason for religon is to keep people in check.


    People can't be allowed to run amuck. Jesus did live. Being christian, he was god. But over all he was also a true human being. People chose to follow his teachings. In these days of trying to kill God. People want to destroy what others believe. Why?-- Just, why? I don't tell anyone how to think. I don't have that power. If you believe in a higher power you believe God can. Again my point is,who do you swear to? Who do you have to answer to. Everyone, someday, in the end, has to. No one can hide from themselves.
    It's too taxing to get into this again. The question you posed was wether he was going to swear on the Bible or not.

  7. #7
    Eruption Dimoncutr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    You don't swear to anyone...you affirm to tell the truth.







    It's too taxing to get into this again. The question you posed was wether he was going to swear on the Bible or not.
    When is the last time you were in a court room. Or for that matter at least watch Judge Judy. They ask "do you swear". But we'll go with affrim, if it makes you happy. YOU STILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOURSELF SOMEDAY! You can't hide from yourself. Murder, rape, molest,.....The truth is still always there. You want to believe we crawlled out from under rocks fine. In the end this person, me, you, or whoever will find out one day. But until that day comes. I still, will keep looking over my shoulder, hoping I still have one to look over.

    Brad If you lie in court. You can go to jail. Even if what you believe in is true. In these days. People want to make you believe in something different-Or you go to jail. Which way do you really want it. I would, in all reality prefer to make my own judgement...In the end.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    I think someone here posted a great quote from the late Christopher Reeve....

    "I don't really believe in a God, but I try to behave as if there is one."

    Sums up how I feel. I answer to myself....and I am my own harshest critic anyway. Just because I'm an Atheist doesn't make me an outlaw. I don't run amuck. I've taken a solmen oath to myself not to be a pain in the ass to society.

    But getting back on topic, I always have wondered who an Atheist would swear to in court.
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  9. #9
    Eruption Dimoncutr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum
    I think someone here posted a great quote from the late Christopher Reeve....

    "I don't really believe in a God, but I try to behave as if there is one."

    Sums up how I feel. I answer to myself....and I am my own harshest critic anyway. Just because I'm an Atheist doesn't make me an outlaw. I don't run amuck. I've taken a solmen oath to myself not to be a pain in the ass to society.

    But getting back on topic, I always have wondered who an Atheist would swear to in court.

    Thank you!

  10. #10
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimoncutr
    When is the last time you were in a court room. Or for that matter at least watch Judge Judy. They ask "do you swear". But we'll go with affrim, if it makes you happy.
    Dude, your a dumbass and know nothing of our court system. I thought it was obvious by my post, but let me baby step it for you. You swear on a Bible if you don't have a problem doing so, but if you do, the court allows you to just affirm that you will tell the truth, not swear...and no Bible! By the way, I was in court just last week.

    YOU STILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOURSELF SOMEDAY! You can't hide from yourself.
    What the fuck does this have to do with anything?

    Murder, rape, molest,.....The truth is still always there. You want to believe we crawlled out from under rocks fine. In the end this person, me, you, or whoever will find out one day. But until that day comes. I still, will keep looking over my shoulder, hoping I still have one to look over.
    Again, what the fuck does this have to do with what we were addressing?

    Brad If you lie in court. You can go to jail. Even if what you believe in is true. In these days. People want to make you believe in something different-Or you go to jail. Which way do you really want it. I would, in all reality prefer to make my own judgement...In the end.
    WTF? Man, you really are stupid. Again, what does this have to do with what we were discussing? What does it have to do with wether or not an atheist has to swear on a Bible in court or not?
    Last edited by BradS; 01.15.06 at 02:45 PM.

  11. #11
    Romeo Delight good ole Stimey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum
    I think someone here posted a great quote from the late Christopher Reeve....

    "I don't really believe in a God, but I try to behave as if there is one."

    Sums up how I feel. I answer to myself....and I am my own harshest critic anyway. Just because I'm an Atheist doesn't make me an outlaw. I don't run amuck. I've taken a solmen oath to myself not to be a pain in the ass to society.

    But getting back on topic, I always have wondered who an Atheist would swear to in court.

    very well put ..

  12. #12
    Banned! againstthewind's Avatar
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    Whether anyone here believes Jesus was the Son of God or not is their own individual right, I personally believe it. However, to question if he existed or not, is, IMHO quite foolish. The Bible is simply,documented history, just as the books we all learned from growing up. The author of the book of Luke was, well, Luke..he was a Doctor...an educated man for his time, as was Matt...(the book of Matt) he was a writer, also very educated for that time period. If anyone chooses to believe Jesus was not the Christ..that is soely up to them of course, however, to doubt that Jesus of Nazereth was not upon this earth is simply denying documented history...the same history that taught us of Julius Cesar, and our own American history and our personal family heritage. If you choose not to believe his is the Christ, so be it, but if you choose not then apparently you simply believe that he was a magician of sort and outwitted a whole bunch of folks...when you add it all up over time...a couple billion or so!! Quite amazing!

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    To say that the Bible is a history book is a bit absurd. There's more than a little fiction involved. A novel set in a historical (to us) setting? Perhaps. History book? No.

  14. #14
    Eruption Dimoncutr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Dude, your a dumbass and know nothing of our court system. I thought it was obvious by my post, but let me baby step it for you. You swear on a Bible if you don't have a problem doing so, but if you do, the court allows you to just affirm that you will tell the truth, not swear...and no Bible! By the way, I was in court just last week.



    What the fuck does this have to do with anything?



    Again, what the fuck does this have to do with what we were addressing?



    WTF? Man, you really are stupid. Again, what does this have to do with what we were discussing? What does it have to do with wether or not an atheist has to swear on a Bible in court or not?
    As this confirms to me, I'm not the stupid one. If you happen to look further into what we are talking about you would see that what I said has everything to do with it. I'm Done arguing. I've gone farther than I chose to on God and what I believe.

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    Banned! againstthewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    To say that the Bible is a history book is a bit absurd. There's more than a little fiction involved. A novel set in a historical (to us) setting? Perhaps. History book? No.

    Your opinion Mike, and I respect that. I understand the Bible, especially the Old Testament is, well, tough even for Christians to comprehend and releate it to todays standards. However, the New Testament was written just about the time of Julius Ceasar, what makes you certain Ceasar existed??Do you doubt the legitamacy of the books you have acquired your knowledge from, just as you seem to the Bible?? Who were the authors of the books you got your knowledge from, I guess you are putting your faith in someone, somewhere...that all you have read is true. I choose to put my faith in God, not other men...men, who are as fragile and ultimately as clueless as you and I. Ultimately it all comes down to faith, I'm not certain what yours is, but I hope it is not in other Human Beings (no pun intended with the VH reference)....Humans, men,are the most infalable beings on this planet. Have a good night Mike.

 

 

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