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  1. #1
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Bad cops, or bad media?

    It seems we have had some altercations lately. A few weeks ago, a man was shot and killed by Air Marshalls on a connecting flight from South America. Witnesses say he ran up and down the aisle screaming and acting crazy, while he wife ran after him saying that her husband was bipolar, sick, and that she had not given him his meds. The Air Marshalls say he was screaming he had a bomb in his bag.

    We also have the most recent case of a man in N.O. with a knife, who was eventually shot and killed when he failed to relinquish it.

    Now, the situations seem dramatically different to me on whether the officers were right or wrong. What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    Air Marshall - Good clean shoot. Give him a medal and a raise.

    NOPD Shoot of Shithead With Knife - Unfortunate, but when you don't give your police tazers you don't give them any other options. Besides it was probably suicide by cop anyway.
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Bottom line, to me, is that a police officer should not for a moment have to put him/herself in danger of getting stuck by a knife or blown up if they can shoot and avoid it. Sure, when it's not clear, but if someone has a knife and is coming at an officer, then whatever they have to do is fine. You just don't do that. Tazer is a better option if available, but people need to learn - you don't fuck with the police. If you do, then whatever happens is your fault. Period.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    In fact, let me go further - if a really big dude is coming at a cop with intent to harm, armed or NOT, then to me they have a right to shoot. YOU DON'T FUCK WITH COPS.

  5. #5
    Outta Space Cowboy Scotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IED
    In fact, let me go further - if a really big dude is coming at a cop with intent to harm, armed or NOT, then to me they have a right to shoot. YOU DON'T FUCK WITH COPS.
    Do you wear a badge, IED?

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Nope, got a couple of good friends that do (doesn't everyone), I just happen to think that they have a hard enough job without having to put themselves in unneccary jeopardy.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Let me expand on that - we do a lot of discussion here about society and our values/morals when it comes to politics, sex, schools, etc. I think this is one very evident aspect of where our society is coming apart, a bit. When a police officer points a gun at you and says drop it, then games over. Show respect for society, for the badge, or at least for the gun, and drop it. If you don't, then you're fair game. Period.

    In actuality, I'm sure you could put together a coherent argument FOR patience and restraint by the police in these situations, since I am advocating the escalation of the situation. If you KNOW the cop will shoot, you may be more likely to do something fairly rash yourself, which could result in someone else getting hurt that could have been avoided.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    To expand on all that...

    First off, the place to fight is in the court room, not the street. Even if you live in a town or city where the police have a reputation for being assholes, when the man with the badge issues you an order you comply AND you keep your mouth shut except to answer questions and you do that with basic respect. Mouthing off at a cop will never help your situation.

    Once the police arrive on the scene they are in charge, you may not like this fact but you must accept it.

    If the cop you're dealing with has an attitude there could be a hundred reasons why, including YOUR attitude. It's not your place to tell him how to do his job. If the police officer has detained you it's for a reason, he'll tell you when he feels like it. If you've called him to come to you, he has a procedure to follow. You might not like how he does things but he's covering his ass AND yours .

    All cops want to do is go home at the end of the day. The clown with the knife, bat, pipe or BB-gun will make this impossible. Real life isn't like the movies or T.V., where you can shoot the knife out of his hand or do some cool Judo move and knock the guy out.

    If you fight a guy with a knife, you will get cut. If you have matial-arts training you might still win and dissarm the suspect but you can still bleed to death in the process. Knife wounds are worse than bullet wounds, especially if the guy with the knife knows what he's doing, ask Ron Goldman.

    Police need to have a regular training schedual, this means time in various schools and courses to learn new skills and reinforce old ones. Training means money and schedualing issues, most police departments are on tight budgets, this means that many cops are missing out on training they need. A cops with great training is a great cop, communities should make every effort to get their police into these courses whenever they can.
    Example:
    Detroit has one of the worst police forces in the U.S.. Why? Half the force is part-time. The department has a tight budget and it's officers get the minimum amount of training possible to wear a badge. Not suprisingly, Detroit has one of the highest crime-rates in the country. It's not that there are all bad cops there either, there are a few guys who spend their own money on training and equipment because they are dedicated and because they know it will save their lives. The problem is also that their department won't back them up, their leadership will leave them hanging more often than not in a high-profile shooting case. So the cops there have low morral. They will respond to a 2/11 in progress but they won't floor the gas. Why get there while the bad guys are there? The bad guy have guns and he police might get shot or worse - shoot one of the bad guys.

    You get the police you pay for. You get the police you don't pay for.

    There are few dedicated community activists who rail against the police that actually live in the worst neighborhoods. They usually live in gated communities. Cops have to work within guidelines laid out by people who've never spent a day in uniform ON THE STREET.

    Most police departments have ride-along oppertunities, any citizen can sign a release and ridge shotgun in a police car for an entire shift. I encourage everybody to do this at least once and do one daytime and one Midnight shift. You haven't really seen your community for what it is until your seen it from the front seat of a police car.
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  9. #9
    Good Enough Phatie's Avatar
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    The bi-polar guy was executed/assassinated - HUGE cover-up there.

    Whatever happened to tasers? Are tasers just meant to zap little old ladies with their blinkers out? WTF?

    I heard from a property owner in New Orleans that 100 cops disappeared? Not the fired ones, or the ones who quit, these officers completely evaporated, as legend has it, after the 9th ward levy mysteriously exploded, flooding the neighborhoods that are now subject to immenent domain. Very odd series of events there...
    Last edited by Phatie; 12.30.05 at 06:03 PM.

  10. #10
    I'm not really a waitress lazylizzy's Avatar
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    Hey PH - Don't believe everything you hear - even from someone who was at the scene. Every person has their own impression - and their own agenda for telling a story. The listener needs to weigh that against any other information received about something.
    I have a friend who lives in Metairie - on the other side of the flooded canal. She tells it like I can see it and hear it from other members of our church in Nawlins. I usually disregard anything the press puts out but for once in a lifetime the local press in Nawlins is leading the way to rebuilding, rooting out the bad guys, holding the leadership's feet to the fire and puting down stupid rumors. I am going down there in February to run the marathon and spend money in town and help my friend get her roof repaired. It is still covered with blue tarp as is much of Nawlins.
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  11. #11
    Sinner's Swing! racefan8's Avatar
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    Axxman and IED - you are dead on.

    I am married to a cop and I know that side of it. In training, they have shown that a man with a knife is a deadly threat if he is within 21 feet of you. No cop wants to shoot if they don't have to. The subject was threatening and resisting. If they allowed him to waltz down the street with his knife and manage to grab a victim, then the media would blame the cops for that, too. Put yourself in the cop's shoes. Do you know by looking at someone that they did not get their medication and they do not have the mental capacity to behave properly? What about the suspects that just got done commiting a vicious crime and are resisting? Most cops would rather kill a bastard they know just molested a child or something - they show tremendous restraint. Just like our soldiers, cops make split second decisions to the best of their ability in order to protect and serve - in most cases. Then the armchair quarterbacks come in and pick it apart. Fuck that. We want our police to protect us, don't we?

    On a similar note, what is so sickening that I've seen lately is the Rainbow Push people stepping in and sticking up for their own when they are charged with crimes. Case in point, a recent string of muggings in my hushand's town. Two teenage boys accost their victims on the sidewalk, knock them down, beat the living shit out of them, and steal their valuables. These two did this at least 6 times in that town alone. The suspects' families, schools, and "pastors" gathered the funds to bond these little bastards out, claiming they are misunderstood and they don't deserve to be charged so harshly - that they have siblings to be role models for and that they are really good kids. WTF - shall we ask the victims who are in the hospital and now traumatized for life just how fucking innocent these little shits are? Is that the role the siblings should make note of? If so, then all they've learned is they can go out and commit crime and their community will back them up. What the hell is our society coming to?

    BTW, mom is exactly right, too, about eye witness accounts.
    Yeah, this subject gets me pretty upset.
    Edit: the muggers were found with the vitcim's property in their possesion, were ID'd in a line up, and confessed to the crimes with their parents present.
    Last edited by racefan8; 12.30.05 at 06:51 PM.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phatie
    The bi-polar guy was executed/assassinated - HUGE cover-up there.

    Whatever happened to tasers? Are tasers just meant to zap little old ladies with their blinkers out? WTF?

    ...
    Cover up? In front of an airliner full of witnesses who all saw and heard the same thing?

    First, let me educate you about blowing up an airplane. There's over a dozen way to do it and four or five are frighteningly easy. The easiest way is to just check it into your luggage, the cargo hold is right next to the fuel tanks. You can use a timer, an altitude activated fuse (like the one that blew up that Pan Am 747 over Scottland) or a remote trigger. The trigger can be anything from a digiat watch, I-Pod, lap-top computer or cell phone or just a black box with a button.

    Most airports, even after 9/11, still don't screen their checked luggage for explosives.

    If you have a remote trigger you can then dictate events. You hijack the plane to Cuba, you try to get political prisoners released and so on. If you are Al Qaeda, you have them taxi the plane to a far end of the runway and then stretch the scenario out so that it's live on every network television station. Then while you've got some 8 year old kid on the radio begging for her life you detonate the plane...Allah Akbhar!

    The guy on the plane who was shot was out of control, yelling he had a bomb. Even after the Marshall drew his weapon the passenger refused to comply and rushed to the door. At the door he turns around and reaches into his backpack and at that point the Marshall opened fire. It's a compression of events: Plane loaded with people, loaded with 80,000 gallons of jet fuel and a guy who says he's got a bomb.

    Tazers are out of the question. A Tazer used on a guy with a detonator will most likely set off the bomb. The only way is to sepperate the guy's brainstem from his body, the only realistic way to do that is with bullets.
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