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  1. #1
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays...WTF?

    Okay, I think we are starting to get a little too crazy here.

    I don’t believe in God. Period. I do, however, celebrate Christmas. It isn’t a “Christian” holiday. People celebrate Christmas for different reasons. The Christians celebrate it as Christ’s birthday, and I celebrate it as a traditional time of exchanging gifts, being with family, and enjoying the great decorations that come with it…including Santa Claus! Religion has nothing to do with it for me. It’s great fun!

    So why are some people causing a stink about saying Merry Christmas? I could care less if you say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays…what’s the difference really? I think both sides are being ridiculous…to a certain extent. If a Christian says Merry Christmas to me, I am going to say Merry Christmas right back with a big fucking smile on my face! Why? Because I like Christmas. Why argue over what it means to you?

    Now, putting nativity scenes on public property, I have a problem with, but that is actually something to argue about. People have to choose their battles, and saying Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays shouldn’t be one of them in my opinion.

    People of no religious orientation who are taking advantage of this to further the secular side of things should be ashamed. Christians who are using this to boycott stores who choose Happy Holidays over Merry Christmas should be ashamed as well.

    I am an atheist, but I want everybody on this board (including Sactofan) to have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium KT's Avatar
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    I agree that things are getting way out of control. However, BradS, I have to disagree with you on one point and one point only. Christmas IS a Christian holiday. Now, you don't have to be a Christian to celebrate it because over the years, it has become very secular. It is now much more about Santa, spending an enormous amount of money on gifts, and beautiful decorations, spending time with those you love, and exchanging gifts. Those things are fine, and if non-Christians want to focus on those things as the meaning of Christmas, they have every right to do so. Everyone has a right to believe or not believe whatever they want. However, Christmas IS a Christian holiday. There would be no Christmas without the birth of Jesus Christ (whether or not you believe He is the son of God or even if He ever even existed).

    As a Christian, I try very hard to focus on the real meaning of the holiday for me. However, Christians are not perfect and are human and it is very easy to get wrapped up in the secular side of this holiday. I would not, however, protest against a store who doesn't use the wording "Merry Christmas". It has gotten rediculous. Rediculous to me, also, are the people who are offended by seeing nativity scenes, etc. Why are people so sensitive just because they don't believe in something? I'm not walking around screaming everytime I see someone wearing an antichrist symbol or a Marilyn Manson t-shirt. If someone wants to wear it, or I see the cover of a satanic worshipper's manual in a bookstore window, fine. I don't have to like it. I don't have to shop there. I don't have to look at them. But, that doesn't mean I need to make a big stink about it and order people to take things down just b/c I'm offended.
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  3. #3
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Nice reply, KT. I have to inform you respectfully, however, that Christmas is NOT a Christian holiday. Do a little research and you will see that Christmas is a pagan holiday.

    Merry Christmas.
    Last edited by BradS; 12.10.05 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Banned! againstthewind's Avatar
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    Brad...are you denying the fact that TODAY..not 2k yrs ago, this is a christian holiday? I don't see a lot of pagan's running around celebrating this day!! Botttom line is....Christians celebrate this day as the birth of their Lord...why should anyone deny them that right?? We all know Jesus wasn't really born on this day...but it is OUR celebration of his birth. It does not suprise me however, that the Christ is slowly being taken out of CHRISTmas, because Jesus said it in the Bible that we..Christians, someday, would be persucted because of his name. Christmas is for Christians....period, celebrate it as something else if you wish...but please don't deny what it means to me... and millions of Christians around the world...the lamb was sacrificed ..and salvation has come to us all!!

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    People have to choose their battles, and saying Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays shouldn’t be one of them in my opinion.

    We started choosing side-swipe battles some time back, Brad, or hadn't you got the memo? Sensational distraction from the real problems of the world is admittedly an old fad, but it's currently experiencing a serious increase in popularity.

    New Orleans is still struggling to recover, and will for years. But what's the deal with Brad and Angelina?

    Thousands of Rwandans continue to die each day. Gosh, that slut Paris Hilton, she broke off the engagement.

    The Sudan continues bathing in its bloodbath. Damned if you heathens will wish me happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

    One of my tenants in Vegas is an ordained Wiccan witch. Her Xmas tree is sprayed black with food coloring and has red tinsel. Actually looks pretty bitchin', LOL. Will her daughter have less merriment and prosperity because of this blasphemous incarnation?

    Nah.

  6. #6
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by againstthewind
    Brad...are you denying the fact that TODAY..not 2k yrs ago, this is a christian holiday?
    Yes, I am. The Christians don't own Christmas, brotha'.

    I don't see a lot of pagan's running around celebrating this day!! Botttom line is....Christians celebrate this day as the birth of their Lord...why should anyone deny them that right??
    That was my point, dude. No one should deny anyone the right to celebrate Christmas.

    We all know Jesus wasn't really born on this day...but it is OUR celebration of his birth. It does not suprise me however, that the Christ is slowly being taken out of CHRISTmas, because Jesus said it in the Bible that we..Christians, someday, would be persucted because of his name. Christmas is for Christians....period, celebrate it as something else if you wish...but please don't deny what it means to me... and millions of Christians around the world...the lamb was sacrificed ..and salvation has come to us all!!
    I didn't deny what it means to you...I was trying to state just the opposite...re-read the post, dude.

  7. #7
    Baluchitherium KT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Nice reply, KT. I have to inform you respectfully, however, that Christmas is NOT a Christian holiday. Do a little research and you will see that Christmas is a pagan holiday.

    Merry Christmas.
    True, many of the customs were of pagan origin (and began before the birth of Jesus). However, was it called Christmas?
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  8. #8
    Good Enough Bostonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Okay, I think we are starting to get a little too crazy here.

    I don’t believe in God. Period. I do, however, celebrate Christmas. It isn’t a “Christian” holiday. People celebrate Christmas for different reasons. The Christians celebrate it as Christ’s birthday, and I celebrate it as a traditional time of exchanging gifts, being with family, and enjoying the great decorations that come with it…including Santa Claus! Religion has nothing to do with it for me. It’s great fun!
    First of all, Xmas is a "national secular holiday" with it's underlying meaning steeped in xian tradition. For those of us who are Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, and etc, this is not our holiday and therefore we do not want much to do with it. While I respect my friends who celebrate the holiday, and want to call it "Christmas" that is fine, although I am sick of people who are blaming "the liberals" for taking the "Christ" out of "Christ-mas".

    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    So why are some people causing a stink about saying Merry Christmas? I could care less if you say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays…what’s the difference really? I think both sides are being ridiculous…to a certain extent. If a Christian says Merry Christmas to me, I am going to say Merry Christmas right back with a big fucking smile on my face! Why? Because I like Christmas. Why argue over what it means to you?
    For one, I always say happy holiday's back. I let the person know that I am not xian, and therefore do not celebrate this holiday. I wish them well, but the term Christ to observant Jewish people is offensive. I do not accept Jesus as my lord and savior, nor do I feel he was the messiah king, and so on.
    Please by all means enjoy your holiday, however do not force it down my throat.

    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Now, putting nativity scenes on public property, I have a problem with, but that is actually something to argue about. People have to choose their battles, and saying Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays shouldn’t be one of them in my opinion.
    I agree with Nativity scenes should not be placed on public property. I am a jew and do not want my tax dollars to support something I do not believe in. Also I do not want a Chanukiah (Menorah) up there either since we have a thing called the separation of church and state.

    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    People of no religious orientation who are taking advantage of this to further the secular side of things should be ashamed. Christians who are using this to boycott stores who choose Happy Holidays over Merry Christmas should be ashamed as well.

    I am an atheist, but I want everybody on this board (including Sactofan) to have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
    See my above statement... and yes xians need to relax with this boycott crap too.

  9. #9
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktgiles
    However, was it called Christmas?
    Calling it Christmas doesn't change the origins. Yes, the "word" Christmas is a contraction of Christ's Mass. So, the "word" is Christian.

  10. #10
    Hang 'Em High Wray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonian
    For one, I always say happy holiday's back. I let the person know that I am not xian, and therefore do not celebrate this holiday. I wish them well, but the term Christ to observant Jewish people is offensive. I do not accept Jesus as my lord and savior, nor do I feel he was the messiah king, and so on.
    Please by all means enjoy your holiday, however do not force it down my throat.
    Using the term Christ or Christmas is "forcing it down your throat?"

    You're not a Christian, Bostonian. That's fine. Neither am I. But seeing "Merry Christmas" draped along a building in my city square or the sound of someone whishing me a Merry Christmas certainly doesn't offend me. The latter makes me feel pretty good, really.
    Last edited by Wray; 12.10.05 at 03:15 PM.

  11. #11
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    My point, Bostonian, is that it isn't enough of an issue to make a federal case out of it. Why would Merry Christmas being said to you offend you, when it is being said out of happiness and joy...regardless of the speaker’s religious affiliation?

  12. #12
    Banned! againstthewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    Yes, I am. The Christians don't own Christmas, brotha'.



    That was my point, dude. No one should deny anyone the right to celebrate Christmas.



    I didn't deny what it means to you...I was trying to state just the opposite...re-read the post, dude.

    I think you are right, I think we agree more than we disagree. I also, even being a Christian, don't believe nativity scenes belong on public property...that would be denying your or anyone's right to religious belief, or at least imposing on it. However, here in MI I have recently heard of many stories of people complaining about nativity scenes on private property, and Christmas trees now being refered to as holiday trees!! I respect everyones religion...I have no problem with anyone...anyone, displaying a Manorah or any other religious symbol on private property, however, it seems more and more, that Christianity is being shoved to the side and told to keep it quiet , or at least behind closed doors. There was a situation recently where someone in a nearby town complained about a nativity scene in one of their neighbors yards!! The neighbor was ordered by the homeowners association to remove it or be fined!!!!! This was an outright violation of that familys religious freedom! Look, this country was founded on the belief in God..it says it on our money just to remind us. As a matter of fact this country was founded on Christianity, the belief in Christ our Lord. Bottom line is...recently we are getting a little sensitive about people who aren't Christian, telling us what OUR holiday is supposed to mean to us. Celebrate however, or whatever you want, and maybe not you directly, but we will be dammed if we are going to let people tell us what this very special day means to us. Merry Christmas Brad.
    Last edited by againstthewind; 12.10.05 at 03:29 PM.

  13. #13
    Hang 'Em High Wray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS
    My point, Bostonian, is that it isn't enough of an issue to make a federal case out of it.
    It's not even enough to make some kind of personal moral battle over. Being offended by something so inferior is awfully disheartening during a time that should be filled with nothing but jubilation, regardless of your religious doctrine (or lack thereof).

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk stilleddiesangel's Avatar
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    25th December was chosen hundreds of years ago to be a christian festival. That is around the times of other festivals is irrelevent. But both in the UK and the States, christianity is the predomanent faith, with the largest percentage of people belong to that faith. And so this holy day is celebrated as a nation. Other faiths celebrate their festivals and so it should be. Fact is, you go to a nation that is not christian and start saying that they shouldn't do this or that, during their festivals and you will either be laughed at or arrested.

    Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ... period!!, if others wish to attach other meanings to it and join in the fun, fantastic, but I feel it wrong to deny us our culture and faith.
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    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by againstthewind
    I think you are right, I think we agree more than we disagree. I also, even being a Christian, don't believe nativity scenes belong on public property...that would be denying your or anyone's right to religious belief, or at least imposing on it. However, here in MI I have recently heard of many stories of people complaining about nativity scenes on private property, and Christmas trees now being refered to as holiday trees!! I respect everyones religion...I have no problem with anyone...anyone, displaying a Manorah or any other religious symbol on private property, however, it seems more and more, that Christianity is being shoved to the side and told to keep it quiet , or at least behind closed doors. There was a situation recently where someone in a nearby town complained about a nativity scene in one of their neighbors yards!! The neighbor was ordered by the homeowners association to remove it or be fined!!!!! This was an outright violation of that familys religious freedom! Look, this country was founded on the belief in God..it says it on our money just to remind us. As a matter of fact this country was founded on Christianity, the belief in Christ our Lord. Bottom line is...recently we are getting a little sensitive about people who aren't Christian, telling us what OUR holiday is supposed to mean to us. Celebrate however, or whatever you want, and maybe not you directly, but we will be dammed if we are going to let people tell us what this very special day means to us. Merry Christmas Brad.

    You're good intentioned. Merry Christmas to you as well.

    Christians are no more persecuted today than anybody else. The country was not founded on Christianity. It just isn’t true…do the research. It is on our money, yes, and that is unfortunate, but it wasn’t always there…it first appeared on the two-cent piece during the Civil War in 1864, but wasn’t added to paper money until the 50’s.

    Christmas is not YOUR holiday; it is anyone’s who chooses to celebrate it…no matter what their reason behind it is. Just so that you’re clear, Dec 25th was the celebration of pagan Saturnalia as well as some other pagan winter solstice celebrations long before “Christmas” was invented. The Roman Emperor of the time, Aurelian, meshed all of them together on the 25th. It wasn’t considered by Christians to be a holiday until the Roman Emperor Constantine declared it as such to encourage a common religious festival for both Christians and Pagans. The church adopted this day as well around the 4th century, even though it is not when Christ would have been born, and it stuck. All Christmas traditions came from a pagan celebration…everything from the Christmas tree, exchanging gifts, the Yule log, and decorations for the tree.

    Merry Christmas

 

 

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