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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk Bob_R's Avatar
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    Default December 7,1945 vs. September 11,2005

    Infamous Comparisons:  December 7, 1945 Vs. September 11, 2005

    A BUZZFLASH READER CONTRIBUTION
    by Ed Rampell


    This article compares where America stood four years after Pearl Harbor -- and four years after the 9/11 sneak attack. As a historian and coauthor of a book about Pearl Harbor, I have some unusual insights into these tragedies and uncovered some startling juxtapositions between then (1945) and now (2005). 


    December 7th marks the 64th anniversary of Imperial Japan’s 1941 sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, which has often been likened to the 9/11 terrorist strikes. This past Sept. 11th was the fourth anniversary of Al-Qaeda’s airborne assaults on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, which some have dubbed "the New Pearl Harbor." It is thought provoking to compare this four-year milepost to where America stood on December 7, 1945, four years after what President Roosevelt called the "date which will live in infamy."

    Following Japan’s Pearl Harbor strike, the U.S. declared war on Tokyo on December 8, 1941. Rome and Berlin declared war on Washington December 11, 1941, which then declared war on Mussolini’s Italy and Hitler’s Germany that same day.

    Although Congress never declared war on Afghanistan or Iraq, on Oct. 11, 2002, Congress authorized President Bush to use force in Iraq. The U.S. invaded Iraq March 19, 2003, although Baghdad hadn’t attacked America. U.N. Weapons Inspectors were unable to find the WMDs that Bush claimed threatened the U.S. but subsequent inquiries proved didn’t exist. The 2005 documentary "Beyond Treason" claimed the U.S. used depleted uranium, which spreads radiation, in Iraq. An Italian documentary broadcast November 8, 2005, contended U.S. forces used white phosphorous - considered by some to be a napalm-like chemical weapon - against civilians in Falluja in 2004.

    A week after the Pearl Harbor air raid, a salvage organization was established. By February 1942, three battleships, two cruisers, two destroyers and other vessels were repaired. Three additional damaged battleships went on to serve in WWII, thanks to history’s greatest salvage operation.

    Groundbreaking on the Pentagon began Sept. 11, 1941; it was dedicated Jan. 15, 1943, costing $83 million. The Pentagon’s partial reconstruction after it was attacked cost $700 million; its outer ring was officially reopened Sept. 11, 2002. As of Sept. 11, 2005, no major buildings have been rebuilt at Ground Zero.

    Washington spent $341 billion on WWII. The War Resisters League claims the U.S. military budget is "$643 billion for FY 2006 including estimates for the Iraq/ Afghanistan supplemental …" CostOfWar.com claims that as of November 30, 2005, America spent $223 billion-plus on Iraq.

    On Feb. 19, 1942, Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066 placing 120,000 residents of Japanese ancestry in internment camps. The last internee was released Oct. 30, 1946.

    In June, 2002, Attorney General Ashcroft launched the National Security Entry Exit Registration System (NSEERS) - which the ACLU likened to "the Nazis’ requirement for Jews …" NSEERS led to deportation proceedings for 13,740-plus Arabs, Muslims and South Asians; none were publicly charged with terrorism. MissionIslam.com contends NSEERS "resulted in 144,513 males … interviewed, registered, photographed, and fingerprinted." The web site claims 15,000 Muslims were detained or arrested, 3,208 deported, and 3,434 faced deportation proceedings.

    As of December 7, 2005, about 520 detainees remain at Guantanamo. According to Rolling Stone, "7,000 prisoners were jammed into Abu Ghraib, a complex erected to hold … 4,000 detainees." On Aug. 27, 2005, 1,000 prisoners were released from Abu Ghraib. Two weeks earlier, Al-Jazeera reported Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers was suppressing attempts to release additional photos and videos documenting prisoner abuse there. In October 2005, the Bush administration, led by Vice President Cheney, sought a CIA exemption from a torture ban that 90 senators had voted for. On November 2, 2005, The Washington Post revealed the CIA was holding terrorist suspects in secret prisons in Eastern Europe. After more than three years behind bars, Jose Padilla was finally charged November 22, 2005, with terrorist-related crimes - but not with plotting to detonate a dirty bomb, as the government had alleged for years. That same day, Britain’s Daily Mirror claimed that according to a leaked Downing Street memo, Bush planned to bomb the HQ of the Al-Jazeera satellite TV network in Qatar in 2004.

    On April 25, 1945, 50 nations’ delegates met in San Francisco for the United Nations Conference on International Organization. A Charter was adopted June 25, 1945, and the U.N. was established Oct. 24, 1945.

    On Sept. 14, 2001, the Senate confirmed John Negroponte - reputedly involved with Central American right-wing death squads - as U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. On November 8, 2002, the Security Council passed Resolution 1441, demanding Iraq’s disarmament. Five days later, U.N. weapons inspectors returned to Baghdad. A leaked Jan. 31, 2003, memo alleged the National Security Agency spied on Security Council members. Facing vetoes, in March, 2003, Washington failed to submit a second resolution authorizing military action in Iraq to a Security Council vote. On August 1, 2005, President Bush named controversial John Bolton as U.S. U.N. Ambassador via recess appointment. The U.S. had been without a U.N. ambassador since Jan. 13, 2005.

    On June 5, 1947, Secretary of State George C. Marshall outlined the Marshall Plan, massive foreign aid for rebuilding war-shattered Europe.

    To rebuild storm-battered Gulf Coast states, on Sept. 2, 2005, Congressman Jerry Lewis, who chairs the House Appropriations Committee, advocated "a domestic Marshall Plan." In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the world’s superpower received foreign aid from the U.N. and donor nations, including Bangladesh. On November 22, 2005, Venezuela’s anti-Bush administration President Hugo Chavez made heating fuel available to low income Yanquis at a discounted rate.

    On D-Day, June 6, 1944, the Allies invaded Normandy’s beaches on LCVP landing crafts invented by New Orleans boat builder Andrew Higgins, whom General Eisenhower called, "the man who won the war for us."

    Louisiana’s National Guard is the only one in the Union with amphibious craft. However, after Katrina, none could be deployed because all were in Iraq, along with 30% of Louisiana’s Guardsmen.

    Partisans shot Mussolini April 28, 1945. Hitler and Goebbels committed suicide April 30 and May 1, 1945. After an International Military Tribunal found him guilty of war crimes, Goering committed suicide Oct. 15, 1946. Tojo was executed December 23, 1948. Hirohito remained emperor until his 1989 death.

    Saddam Hussein remained at large from April until his December 13, 2003, capture. Hussein’s trial was set for Oct. 19, 2005, but has been plagued by the assassinations of defense attorneys and, as of December 7, 2005, still drags on. Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark flew to Baghdad in late November, 2005, to assist Saddam’s defense. Saddam Hussein still proclaims himself to be Iraq's president, and there has been no "surrender." As of December 7, 2005, Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Omar and Al-Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab Zarqawi are still on the loose. On Aug. 1, 2005, the World Tribunal on Iraq called for "the International Criminal Court to indict, prosecute, and punish the perpetrators and collaborators for the aggression against Iraq …" As of December 7, 2005, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle, etc., are still at large.

    V-E Day was May 8, 1945, 210 days prior to the fourth anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack. August 15, 1945, was V-J Day, and on Sept. 2, 1945, Tokyo officially surrendered, respectively 115 and 97 days before December 7, 1945.

    Since the conquest of Iraq began March 19, 2003, there have been more than 2,110 dead U.S. military deaths, as well as - according to the December 3, 2005, broadcast of PBS’ The McLaughlin Group - 49,000-plus wounded. 

    On May 1, 2003, Bush declared: "major combat operations in Iraq have ended … [T]he United States and our allies have prevailed." Since then, 1,900-plus U.S. forces perished in Iraq; most of them after Bush’s July 2, 2003, "Bring them on" taunt. Since Vice President Cheney’s May 30, 2005, pronouncement that the insurgency was in its "last throes," 462 Americans died in Iraq (as of December 5, 2005). Hawkish Democratic Congressman John Murtha stunned Capitol Hill on November 17, 2005, by calling for a pullout of U.S. troops. On November 30, 2005, Bush made yet another one of his endless speeches on Iraq, trying to enunciate a victory strategy.

    In less than four years after entering WWII, America and its allies defeated the greatest military threat ever assembled in world history – the fascist Axis powers of Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo. But four years after 9/11, Bush remains unable to defeat a ragtag group of insurgents and terrorists, with no end in sight to the Iraqi insurgency and "War on Terrorism."

    Ed Rampell
    Los Angeles, California

    BUZZFLASH READER CONTRIBUTION

    L.A.-based freelance writer Ed Rampell is the co-author of "Pearl Harbor in the Movies" and was a featured speaker at Hawaii's 60th anniversary commemorations of the Pearl Harbor attack. Rampell’s new book is Progressive Hollywood, A People’s Film History of the United States. See: www.ProgressiveHollywood.com.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Bob_R's Avatar
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    In less than four years after entering WWII, America and its allies defeated the greatest military threat ever assembled in world history – the fascist Axis powers of Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo. But four years after 9/11, Bush remains unable to defeat a ragtag group of insurgents and terrorists, with no end in sight to the Iraqi insurgency and "War on Terrorism."

  3. #3
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 05:19 PM
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    Stupid comparison is more like. Completely different worlds, and circumstances. And to describe terrorists as a "rag-tag" group. Obviously this guy has it in for our President.

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    The thing about 9-11 is that we haven't seemed to learn anything from it.

  5. #5
    Romeo Delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistere
    The thing about 9-11 is that we haven't seemed to learn anything from it.
    i disagree. how so?

  6. #6
    5150 YO!Edward's Avatar
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    How can you defeat an enemy you cannot see?

    Our World War Two enemies were uniformed armies, todays enemy is anything from a well organised and battle hardened Al-Qaida terrorist to a disgruntled religious fanatic walking the streets among us as a normal civilian but with access to lethal weapon making information via the internet.

    The world is VERY different to how it was in 1945.
    'The whole world is watching you tonight!'

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  7. #7
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    07.11.09 @ 03:27 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by the insider
    i disagree. how so?
    So much squandered good will and colonialist plundering, geopolitically speaking, and such the return to willful oblivion, selfishness and denial, sociologically.

    How not?

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    What a bunch of tripe. Who writes that shit, and why would anyone think it was worth posting?!

  9. #9
    Niners Fan! SactoFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistere
    So much squandered good will and colonialist plundering, geopolitically speaking, and such the return to willful oblivion, selfishness and denial, sociologically.

    How not?
    More unsubstantiated silliness...
    Can't stop...addicted to the shindig...

  10. #10
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    More denial...

  11. #11
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 10:08 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    What a bunch of tripe. Who writes that shit, and why would anyone think it was worth posting?!
    I was thinking the same thing.
    ((Just My Two Cents))
    And thats about what its worth.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Bob_R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    What a bunch of tripe.
    I don't think that this can be compared to a cow's stomach?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    Who writes that shit,
    Ed Rampell. Didn't you read it? j/k Of course you did.

    and why would anyone think it was worth posting?!
    I thought it was "kinda" interesting and worth letting my VH buddies read it. Unless of course you were referring to Ed Rampell posting it on the net. Then disregard my comment and carry on.

    FYI: I have a webcam widget on my desktop at work and I'm checking out Times Square on a daily basis.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    The other definition of tripe.

    It's not interesting. He's not making a real comparison between the two events. All he's doing is using superficial facts to... I have no idea. It's basically shit, and the guy obviously isn't a historian.

    This is a prime example of why the anti-war crowd is so pathetic. They can't think their way out of a paper bag, let alone a complex issue. A day late and a dollar short always comes to mind even though it's quite the understatement.

    What could you have possibly found interesting about this?

  14. #14
    Eruption
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    Then: We pulled together as a country to defeat what we peceived was an evil looking for world domination.

    Now: We are a bunch of pussies too worried about political correctness to roll up our sleeves and get our hands "dirty".

    War is ugly. We would have to get ugly and show absolutely no mercy and disregard to the rest of the world in order to end Iraq quickly. Our politicians are too worried about political polls and worldly views. You think a few Arab prisoners naked with their pictures taken is bad. I guarantee you the soldiers in WWII were doing a hell of a lot worse.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    This is about the most idiotic thing I have ever read. You cannot compare WW2 and this war.

    Granted I wish that Patton and LeMay were around so we could level Fallujah with a mixture of carpet bombing and tanks but that aint going to happen.

    This argument is about as weak as Clay Aiken in the gym.

 

 

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